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#1
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
.262 average, only 1600+ hits, never came close to leading the league in anything? |
#2
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Holstein
I agree - I can't understand why he is in there, based on his stats. However, he was on a great team and was part of a popular infield. It absolutely makes no sense when you consider some overlooked players with great statistics. Why isn't his teammate, Ed Reulbach in the hall? Maybe he just wasn't as popular (ie, one of the first college guys). |
#3
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Sean Coe
He was a very good shortstop, who received great publicity. Also I believe he was part of the flood of veterans voted in in the early 1940's which included several questionable choices. |
#4
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Andrew Parks
He was the defensive backbone of arguably the greatest baseball franchise in baseball history. Those Cubs hold the records for wins in a season, wins in successive seasons, wins in three straight seasons, and every other number of straight seasons up to eight or nine I believe. Bill James wrote that in one of his books and I wish I could remember where the streak exactly stops. |
#5
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: cmoking
Sounds like Tinker got in the Hall the same exact way that Rizzuto got in. |
#6
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: john/z28jd
What other shortstops were there? I can think of some besides Maranville and Wagner who were already in. |
#7
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anson
Ozzie Smith had better numbers but also got in based on defense. Sometimes name recognition or team popularity can make all the difference. |
#8
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Has to be "name recognition". Don't forget the 3 of them were all elected in the same year...1946. If it was just "Evers to Chance", Joe would not be in The Hall. |
#9
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Jimi
I saw on a pregame show to the Cleveland Indians game back in September, that the only reason that Evers, Tinker, and Chance made the HOF was because of that famous poem and their popularity in Chicago. They talked about their poor numbers, too. I would guess that it is safe to say that Omar Vizquel should be in the HOF then....hands down! |
#10
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
And the worst part is that they weren't even close to being the best double play combination in baseball. |
#11
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
These are the saddest of possible words: |
#12
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: john/z28jd
Not to change the subject but i actually think Vizquel will make the hall of fame mostly based on defensive numbers and where he will be all-time when he retires among shortstops.Besides the 10 gold gloves,he ranks 4th all-time in both games played and double plays turned and 1st all-time in fielding %. By the time he retires which will probably be after 2 more seasons he will be at or very near the top in both games played(currently 315 behind the leader) and double plays(111 behind the leader) and hes got the all-time % record sealed up(he would have to be by far the worst in the league for those 2 years to lose that lead. |
#13
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: davidcycleback
I think armchair baseball historians rely too much on batting statistics, or are unable to imagine that anything exists beyond batting statistics. Albert Belle had clearly better hitting statistics than Ozzie Smith, but I'd take Smith over Belle for my team any day. |
#14
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Greg Ecklund
David has a good point - from what I have read, Tinker was noted for being an exceptional hitter in the clutch and was well known for being the batter that Matty had the most trouble with. |
#15
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anson
There's some truth to that. Look at Brooks Robinson (one of my faves). His offensive numbers are decent but not earth-shattering. But, he's still arguably the best defensive third-sacker ever (with due respect to Scott Rolen). |
#16
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
Pat Tabler was unbelievable in the clutch. Pete O'Brien used to kill Roger Clemens, and he was arguably in the top three defensive first basemen in the 1980's....That doesn't make either of them Hall of Famers. Joe Tinker is in the Hall because of that poem. |
#17
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anson
Not to steer us too O/T, but I would put Schmidt ahead of O'Brien for the 80's. |
#18
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Jimi
As a loyal Indians fan my entire life, it's great to see the nice comments about Omar Vizquel. For years, I had to listen to ESPN talk about Jeter and AROD at shortstop, and how great they were (Tejada included)....not that Omar didn't get some respect, but still.....I always thought it was crappy that they were making the All-Star teams and he wasn't. I believe, though, that Torre one year chose all 4 SS's to the AS Game? Anyway, he's a HOFer in my book! |
#19
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
I should have stated one of the three best in the AL. Probably behind Mattingly and Hrbek. Even though I would argue that Schmidt only played 155 games at first base in the 1980's so it's not really a good comparison. However I believe that Schmidt at third base was the best defensively maybe of all time. Certainly of the decade of the eighties. |
#20
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: tbob
He was the Ozzie Smith of his day and a deadly clutch hitter to boot. The real test is how he was viewed by his peers. Tinker was highly regarded as one of the best, if not the best, shortstop in the game DURING THE TIME HE PLAYED. Not just defensively, but all-around. |
#21
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: MyBuddy
........... and look up "gonfalon" in your dictionary ... and you'll be a better person ............. |
#22
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anonymous
Well guys, |
#23
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Andrew Parks
Bob, |
#24
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Kevin Cummings
According to several sources I've read, Tinker was an exceptional shortstop for his time. He led National League shortstops in fielding percentage in 1906, 1908, 1909 and 1911. He was also supposedly the best hit and run man of his time. He was not a great hitter, but he owned Matty and had lots of key hits in the 1908 charge to the World Series and even homered in one of the WS games. Finally, he was instrumental in the historical context of the game since he was the first name player signed by the upstart Federal League leading to other named players coming on board. |
#25
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: paul depodesta
now where do I file for unemployment? |
#26
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: pete ullman
i agree that tinker should NOT be in the hof...but on a different note...why are eddie collins cards so undervalued? All those .300 seasons, stolen bases...he's certainly worth 1.5-2x a common?!?!?! |
#27
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
Regarding Eddie Collins I don't understand why he is so undervalued and unappreciated either. He has the stats, he has the championships, and he was very popular in his era. Imagine what his cards would be "worth" if he had been a part of the scheme to throw the 1919 series. |
#28
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Paul
I thought Joe Sewell held the record for fewest strikeouts in a season with 3 (with at least 100 games or 400 at bats or some other reasonable minimum). So it seems unlikely that Tinker went four years without striking out. |
#29
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: davidcycleback
My theory on a Hall of Fame is that you have to be able to make a good on the field team from the members. And if you can't field a good team from the members, it ain't much of a Hall of Fame. This is why you need an Ozzie Smith and a Dennis Eckersley in the Hall. If the Hall was made up of all Mickey Mantles, you couldn't field a winning team ... If a baseball fan says there should be four Mickey Mantle-types for every one Ozzie Smith-type in the Hall, I won't argue. But you still need a great fielding shortstop to field a great team. |
#30
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anson
I always enjoy comparing Eddie Collins', Tris Speaker's, and Honus Wagner's stats and try to figure out why there's such a HUGE gap in value between the three. |
#31
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: tbob
Andrew- I think you meant your reply to be to me, not Leon. You might be right on the CS statistic but I think you are wrong on the strikeouts not being kept. The walks were kept accurately, why not strikeouts? |
#32
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Darren J. Duet
Hall of FAME. |
#33
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
If it's the Hall of FAME then why isn't Roger Maris in? |
#34
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Daniel Bretta
Bob, strikeouts were not kept before the 1910 season. Tinker struck out about an average of 20-35 times per season. And you have to give credit to George Stallings for leading the Miracle Braves to the title. |
#35
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Darren J. Duet
Good question. But it is the Hall of FAME. I believe voters often get too caught up in career stats rather than popularity and contribution to the game---not always, but often. JMHO. Tinker, Evers, Chance are as historical as it gets, ditto for Maris's 61. |
#36
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Anson
But, if you're going to base the Hall of Fame off of a season's single accomplishment or feat, if would be made up of tons of mediocre players. You can romanticize a player, legend, etc.. but it doesn't change the fact that mediocre players shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. |
#37
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Brian H (misunderestimated)
Tinker is probably among the least deserving HOfers in my mind -- somewher in the "top" (perhaps "bottom" is a better word) 15 or so mistakes. |
#38
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Julie Vognar
............................ |
#39
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Darren J. Duet
But there are a number of mediocre players in the Hall. Refer to above list. |
#40
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: warshawlaw
A short career (11 years), but a top-flight pitcher during most of it. 5x over 20 wins (including 41 in one season), 1x 19 wins, led league in wins, win %, shutouts twice each. |
#41
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Misunderestimated
Adam - I agree -- but none of these guys are mediocre; they are just lesser HOfers... |
#42
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Richard Masson
Billy Herman is missing from the list above. |
#43
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Mike
You mention Drysdale in your list of non hall of fame stats who are HOF'ers.... |
#44
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Matthew
Hey Mike |
#45
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: tbob
Milt Pappas? |
#46
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: DJ
DAMN IT MATTHEW! I needed (bleeping) extra Christmas money! |
#47
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Mike
you are correct! Send me an email at tigersguy1@comcast.net and I will get you your fiver right away! |
#48
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: Paul
Drysdale v. Blue. A 30 point difference in ERA does make a difference, especially when the league ERA for both players is the same. |
#49
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Why is Joe Tinker in the HOF
Posted By: jay behrens
how do you figure the league ERA for Blue and Drysdale are the same? Blue played from 1969-86, Drysdale from 1956-69. Drysdale's ERA benefited from an era when pitching dominated and also from one of the best pitchers parks ever, Chavez Ravine. |
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