Fake T218 Boxing Autographs on eBay

[david_l]

I sure hope nobody here is buying those horrible fake T218 autos being sold by dc2marvelevents on eBay. According to their feedback they sell quite a bit of forgeries.

Can you imagine if a signed T218 Ketchel actually existed??

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...g=100&_fosrp=1

Complete trash




David Luft1$

[Exhibitman]

Oh, come on, Jimmy Gardner always signed with a Sharpie! You're just a hater...

All of the listings have been taken down. Checking the inscriptions on some it is apparent that whoever made them did some research first. The Ad Wolgast, for example, was dated 1953 in Camarillo. Wolgast died in 1955 in the insane asylum in Camarillo.

At $40 each as listed I bet there were many who'd take a chance if they looked halfway decent. I've probably got a few dodgy boxing autos in my collection...

[david_l]

Hehe

I noticed they did some research too. For the Langford, someone had looked at an example at least.

Sadly, those T218s weren’t taken down but were all sold to someone.

I’m sure more will pop up soon though!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...23f782ffee7b20

For comparison.
The second pic is from Leland’s:

[D. Bergin]

Oh my!

Ketchel was dead by October 1910, so that would be quite the coup.

Also, Langford signed T218 for 75 bucks and Jeffries for 30 bucks. Pretty Sweet!

[D. Bergin]

Ha Ha! I just stumbled on something really f'ing hilarious. Adam mentioned they did their research. I can pinpoint exactly where they did their research, based on the inscriptions.

It looks like Boxrec dot com is their main source of info.

I won't post any direct links, as Boxrec is an extremely valuable resource, it is also entirely dependent on your AdBlock/Virus/Malware and browser settings, whether it ends up freezing your screen or not.

T218 Jack Twin Sullivan:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-J...p2047675.l2557

Inscription reads "1174 Rounds"

Boxrec profile lists "1174 Rounds" fought. Correct info............right? Well it, took boxrec up until very recently to compile that list of rounds..........and it's contingent on only verifiable bouts and likely a couple decades of research. There is literally no way, a boxer many decades ago comes up with the same number of rounds as a research database does in the year 2020.


Next.

T218 Johnny Marto

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-J...p2047675.l2557

Inscribed record "12-4-1"

Exact record listed at the top of Johnny Marto's Boxrec page "12-4-1"

This is a guy who had 125 Confirmed bouts through research, and likely many more we'll never find evidence for. Boxrec came about their number through official "decisions", while notating newspaper decision bouts and various other complications due to the laws of boxing during that time period. There is no way possible Marto is going to regurgitate a record in an inscription many decades ago, that jives with the exact record a boxing database pumps out in the year 2020. If anything retired boxers from that time period give themselves credit for many more (sometimes hundreds more fights), then what we have discovered through present day research.

Just two obvious examples I've found.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by david_l

Sadly, those T218s weren’t taken down but were all sold to someone.

That's a shame; someone got ripped off.

Betcha PSA would authenticate them...

[D. Bergin]

Marto sold today for 40 bucks........and then relisted for $55 bucks.

LO..............f'ing..........L!

[D. Bergin]

Another one:

Jack Goodman T218

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-J...p2047675.l2557


Inscription says "4-1"

Boxrec page lists "4-1" at the top of the page, with 40 confirmed bouts. Again, this boxer never would have seen his own record the same as Boxrec does in the year 2020.

[G1911]

If someone is dumb enough to believe these are real and buy them, well.... I don't want to say they deserve it, but at some point it becomes their own fault. The Ketchel is particularly amazing, he had 5-6 months to sign a card at a time in which autograph collecting was not really a thing anyways.

[Tao_Moko]

It was me. However, I "reserved" them to bring awareness to the seller as I expected they were fake. And, in the off chance they were real was willing to take a risk at their low price. The Kline was the first to jump out and the "S" in Summers and lastly the Sharpie ink. If they had a 1% chance of being legit it would have been a once in a lifetime find. Seller refunded me within minutes of my purchase(the amount of time I needed to verify them). I am not the eBay police but I did bring awareness to the seller of my concerns and some evidence to support it. Most of the cards were $40-$55 which is not a gross overcharge from their raw value and they were in decent shape. Nobody is getting burned too badly if they don't get taken down. That may be a sh*try outlook, but there are bigger problems in the world then a handful of fake autos for $50 and the seller had zero issues refunding. This may fire some of you guys up, but I've seen it for 35 years and just kind of numb to it. Buyer must always beware.

[G1911]

Personally, the seller is committing blatant fraud and $50 for a poor grade T218 common is a 1000%+ price increase for a card doctored in the face of all decency and ethics.

[david_l]

@ Dave. Lol nice sleuthing...

... I agree with Greg 100%

I had one of the cards in my watch list and dc2marvelevents, the seller of these faked autographs, contacted me with an offer. I figured I’d write back. I was polite but direct with them and told them that the autos were fake and that there was some discussion within some hobbyist groups and message boards regarding these cards. I genuinely thought the seller might want to know they were being talked about.

dc2marvelevents messaged me back in all caps saying among other things

“I BOUGHT THEM IN A COLLECTION AND I KNOW NOTHING ABIOUT THE AUTOGRAPHS. EBAYERS LIKE YOUR SELF IDIOTS!”

Take it for what it’s worth but dc2marvelevents is either completely ignorant regarding the authenticity of the autographs they are selling (which is what the seller claims and is the BEST case scenario) or they are trying to commit fraud. Decide for yourselves but either way not a great business model.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by david_l

@ Dave. Lol nice sleuthing...

... I agree with Greg 100%

FYI, I had one of the cards in my watch list and dc2marvelevents, the seller of these faked autographs, contacted me with an offer. I figured I’d write back. I was polite but direct with them and told them that the autos were fake and that there was some discussion within some hobbyist groups and message boards regarding these items. I genuinely thought the seller might want to know they were being talked about.

dc2marvelevents messaged me back in all caps saying among other things

“I BOUGHT THEM IN A COLLECTION AND I KNOW NOTHING ABIOUT THE AUTOGRAPHS. EBAYERS LIKE YOUR SELF IDIOTS!”

Take it for what it’s worth but dc2marvelevents is either completely ignorant regarding the authenticity of the autographs they are selling (which is what the seller claims and is the BEST case scenario) or they are trying to commit fraud. Decide for yourselves but either way not a great business model.

Guess that kind of response would be expected. The cross-section between people who type in all caps and sell fraudulent sports cards seems to be extremely high for some reason lol.

How many more years do we have before eBay is flooded with T218 Jack Johnson fakes sellers found in Grandpa's attic, like the Pre-War Baseball listings?

[Tao_Moko]

I'm not sure I recall a time that I considered eBay a platform for decency or an ethical entity. Reports and complaints mostly fall on deaf ears with no resolve. There are so many issues these days that I have just backed away from the world of collecting and occasionally come up for air between farming, kids and work. There is junk entombed in slabs that are sold as legit too. Autos are best left alone unless sufficient provenance is provided, which you'll pay for. I might be a dumb dirtbag but I took the path of sharing information with the seller that identified my concerns to their authenticity. Right or wrong, it's how I chose to go about it because I am not an authenticator and the cards were not in my hand. And admittedly, I had that sliver of hope that just maybe,........they were Uncle Jimmie's

[Exhibitman]

“I BOUGHT THEM IN A COLLECTION AND I KNOW NOTHING ABIOUT THE AUTOGRAPHS. EBAYERS LIKE YOUR SELF IDIOTS!”

Now, who can argue with that? Not only is it authentic eBay gibberish, it illustrates the true animating spirit of so many eBay sellers: I don't know what it is I am selling but I'm going to label it anyway and if you don't believe whatever nonsense I pulled out of my @$$ I will evade the issue by insulting you.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Another one:

Jack Goodman T218

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-J...p2047675.l2557




Inscription says "4-1"

Boxrec page lists "4-1" at the top of the page, with 40 confirmed bouts. Again, this boxer never would have seen his own record the same as Boxrec does in the year 2020.

It doesn't match what the back of the card says either.

[milkit1]

they are back:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-T218-J...UAAOSw6~de6j4E

[diamondstars]

And again?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335553558102

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335553559848

[G1911]

Originally Posted by diamondstars

And again?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335553558102

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335553559848

I reported them but you know eBay, they don't care.

If you search "Jimmy Gardner boxer autograph" there is only one real result, the attached cabinet. The scammer appears to have copied the "pal" from this autograph, but ignored that he signed it "Gardiner" (the Gardner/Gardiner brothers had their names spelled both ways in the press and not consistently) instead of what is on his T218 card.

I hope nobody falls for them this time. Still have never seen a credible T218 autograph card.

[G1911]

And for posterity since the eBay links will eventually die, here is the fake Marto

[D. Bergin]

Looks like this seller took them down.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Looks like this seller took them down.

After eBay ignored it, I reached out to the seller with the backstory on these fakes, who reported his consigner said he had had them for 50 years. The Gardner photo being included in this thread four years ago proves that is not the case, and the seller subsequently said he will "resubmit it for authentication" and did the right thing, taking them down. Bad as they may be I highly doubt PSA or any other real authentication service will sign off on fakes this bad.

I am sure these fakes will move along to somebody else eventually who will try to sell them and won't do the right thing.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by G1911

After eBay ignored it, I reached out to the seller with the backstory on these fakes, who reported his consigner said he had had them for 50 years. The Gardner photo being included in this thread four years ago proves that is not the case, and the seller subsequently said he will "resubmit it for authentication" and did the right thing, taking them down. Bad as they may be I highly doubt PSA or any other real authentication service will sign off on fakes this bad.

I am sure these fakes will move along to somebody else eventually who will try to sell them and won't do the right thing.

Glad you were able to get them to take them down, though the use of the word "resubmit" strikes me as a little odd.

Guessing they didn't have anything to do with the original release of the fakes, and got taken by a consignor without doing due diligence.

They do seem to have lots of autographed cards in their inventory, though nothing else in my wheelhouse that I could make an informed opinion on.