Little Red Riding Hood & Her Babe Ruth Signed 700th Homerun Day Ticket

[RichardSimon]

I collect, among other things, old NY Giants memorabilia.
I just checked my 1930's and 40's ticket stubs and they all have lots of printing on the back.
Was it common for Detroit tickets to be blank backed?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I collect, among other things, old NY Giants memorabilia.
I just checked my 1930's and 40's ticket stubs and they all have lots of printing on the back.
Was it common for Detroit tickets to be blank backed?

A theory here would be yes for regular printed tickets and no for "circus tickets" which would make a whole lot of sense. Perhaps someone can confirm.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

A theory here would be yes for regular printed tickets and no for "circus tickets" which would make a whole lot of sense. Perhaps someone can confirm.

Hi Ben and all,

I have never heard of Emergency tickets being called "circus tickets" FWIW. When I think of circus tickets I think of "raffle" style smaller tickets. The bleacher tickets that Lance showed are somewhat like generic circus tickets. These also had the disclaimer printing on the back. I have quite a few of these from this era.

One additional point to note. Briggs Stadium had PLENTY of capacity to handle large crowds in excess of 26,000 fans in attendance (capacity of the stadium was listed at 36,000). They should not have had to add extra seats, just sell them generic bleacher seats....

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Ben and all,

I have never heard of Emergency tickets being called "circus tickets" FWIW. When I think of circus tickets I think of "raffle" style smaller tickets. The bleacher tickets that Lance showed are somewhat like generic circus tickets. These also had the disclaimer printing on the back. I have quite a few of these from this era.

One additional point to note. Briggs Stadium had PLENTY of capacity to handle large crowds in excess of 26,000 fans in attendance (capacity of the stadium was listed at 36,000). They should not have had to add extra seats....

My understanding in reading the article was that additional seating ("circus seating") was set up in anticipation of a greater-than-capacity crowd. The press talked it up about how the stadium was bound to be filled to capacity, but the reality of game day didn't live up to the hype. The writer also stated that the additional seats likely weren't needed for the game on Sunday (the 15th), but remained in place anyway. The article also laments the effect that the added seating, apparently at ground level on the field itself, had on game play (kids running around on the field, doubles becoming inside the park home runs, etc), so even though the stadium was not filled to capacity, the field-level seats clearly were occupied to some extent.

Also note that the term "circus" was only ever applied to the additional seating in the article, not the tickets themselves. I don't know if this was an official term for that style of seating, or was something unique to this article. The author certainly seems to have thought that the proceedings more closely resembled a circus than a baseball game, which could have led to him coining the term...?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

My understanding in reading the article was that additional seating ("circus seating") was set up in anticipation of a greater-than-capacity crowd. The press talked it up about how the stadium was bound to be filled to capacity, but the reality of game day didn't live up to the hype. The article also laments the effect that the added seating, apparently at ground level on the field itself, had on game play (kids running around on the field, doubles becoming inside the park home runs, etc), so even though the stadium was not filled to capacity, the field-level seats clearly were occupied to some extent.

Also note that the term "circus" was only ever applied to the additional seating in the article, not the tickets themselves.

Gotcha!
I'm sure that the Tigers organization, in an attempt to capitalize on all of the hype and hysteria surrounding the pennant race and Ruth's 700th HR game, wanted to sell more expensive $1.60 seats, not cheap bleacher seats. $$ is always a great motivator, LOL.

[Runscott]

Everyone participating in this thread has 'Circus Seats'.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Everyone participating in this thread has 'Circus Seats'.

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Gotcha!
I'm sure that the Tigers organization, in an attempt to capitalize on all of the hype and hysteria surrounding the pennant race and Ruth's 700th HR game, wanted to sell more expensive $1.60 seats, not cheap bleacher seats. $$ is always a great motivator, LOL.

I guess that was par for the course from the baseball owners. The funny thing was that despite having the games on radio, and the Great Depression, Detroit finished first in attendance in 1934. You wouldn't think that the game would need to be "played" up, but money talks.

[David Atkatz]

So, to get back on track, every bit of physical evidence either points to, or is consistent with this being a genuine 700 HR game ticket.

I wonder where "the Michigan forger" obtained it?

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Ben and all,

I have never heard of Emergency tickets being called "circus tickets" FWIW. When I think of circus tickets I think of "raffle" style smaller tickets. The bleacher tickets that Lance showed are somewhat like generic circus tickets. These also had the disclaimer printing on the back. I have quite a few of these from this era.

One additional point to note. Briggs Stadium had PLENTY of capacity to handle large crowds in excess of 26,000 fans in attendance (capacity of the stadium was listed at 36,000). They should not have had to add extra seats, just sell them generic bleacher seats....

Scott, I believe capacity was 26,000 and was increased to 36,000 the following year.

Good analysis here!

I have a question as to when and why they would issue these emergency tickets. Why were they issued on the 12th (Attendance: 20K) and 13th (22.5K), but not the 14th (Sold Out)? Why would they stamp the date on them? Am I wrong in the assumption they would have A-Z? Wouldn't any ticket taker be told it was an 'A' day?
These may be dumb questions, but I'm sure someone here knows.

[shelly]

I want the people that ripped Chris for not saying anything to know that you are all wrong. I emailed a few people that I have respect for to back off because Chris did exactly what you wanted him to do.
He called Josh and told him the name of the forger, the tell and told him where the guy is from. Not only that, he told Josh to relay everything he said to Jimmy. I know this because I was on the other line. Not only that, I emailed Josh and he shined me off. The reason he did not post he had done it would have given the forger more info than was necessary.
Those people can verify that fact if they want to.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by shelly

The reason he did not post he had done it would have given the forger more info than was necessary.

Really? Well, you've just posted that he had done it. What have you given away?

[JT]

Originally Posted by shelly

I want the people that ripped Chris for not saying anything to know that you are all wrong. I emailed a few people that I have respect for to back off because Chris did exactly what you wanted him to do.
He called Josh and told him the name of the forger, the tell and told him where the guy is from. Not only that, he told Josh to relay everything he said to Jimmy. I know this because I was on the other line. Not only that, I emailed Josh and he shined me off. The reason he did not post he had done it would have given the forger more info than was necessary.
Those people can verify that fact if they want to.

And this will change what? I don't believe the auction house, the buyer, the seller, or JSA will rescind the sale, purchase, authentication or anything involved with this. Regardless of what Chris may or may not have finally stated to Josh, everyone actually involved with this transaction appears to be happy as nothing has been stated to rebuke that assumption.

As for everyone being wrong, I believe everyone was right when any statements you are referring to were made.

[shelly]

If you read what I said. You are wrong in thinking that Chris did nothing.Nothing more than what you asked him to do. What the auction house did with that info was up to them.
I am only stating that Chris did what most of you on this site asked him to do. Because he did not say anything to you or anyone else on this board I can now see why. Your damned if you do and you are damned if you don't.
I really think that this site has become who can we pick on next. There was so much pilling on that you should all be ashamed.
I am who I am and you take shots at me.
Chris has never hurt this hobbie and always tried to help. You hurt the one person that has done more to help than anyone of you on this site. If I am wrong name that other person.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Scott, I believe capacity was 26,000 and was increased to 36,000 the following year.

Good analysis here!

I have a question as to when and why they would issue these emergency tickets. Why were they issued on the 12th (Attendance: 20K) and 13th (22.5K), but not the 14th (Sold Out)? Why would they stamp the date on them? Am I wrong in the assumption they would have A-Z? Wouldn't any ticket taker be told it was an 'A' day?
These may be dumb questions, but I'm sure someone here knows.

Hi Jim,

I went back and re-read the info on Briggs stadium capacity available on the internet. I had two sources state that the capacity of Briggs Stadium was expanded to 30,000 in 1923, but you are correct in that they didn't expand to capacity of 36,000 until 2 years after Babe's 700th HR game in 1934.

Here is my original post about the Emergency tickets used in 1934 and my questions about the use of them after reading Josh from Huggins and Scotts post in the first thread:

"Very interesting...
I'm curious where the photo of all the tickets came from?
I see that it says eBay on the screen shot, but I'm intrigued how this image shows a ticket issued only one day apart (wow!) from the alleged Ruth 700 HR ticket. That's an amazing coincidence! They obviously are stamped identically, at the same angle, yet the Emergency Tickets are "A" tickets one day, and "Z" the following day- in July, no less (half way through the season)!
FWIW, about 22,000 were in attendance for Ruth's 700th HR. Did this require that the Tigers issue emergency tickets? I looked at all the surrounding games at DET on the 1934 schedule and they all appear to have similar attendance, especially with the Yankees in town. I saw attendances ranging from 20,000-26,000 during this homestand. I would also note that at least 4 games at DET prior to the NY series that featured Ruth's HR drew at least as many fans. One of the games drew 30,000 fans and the game on July 4th drew 40,000 fans for a twin bill. Would Ruth's 700th HR be Emergency ticket "Z" if it was at a minimum the 6th high attended game in DET in 1934?
I don't know, and I'm quite certain that no one knows for sure. It just seems odd to me, FWIW...

I certainly can be wrong, but I stand by my assertion that I have not seen other earlier vintage Tigers tickets stamped in this fashion prior to the screen shot that you posted"

FWIW, I now believe, given all of the new evidence submitted, that they would have issued Emergency tickets for the July 14th game as well, especially if they were anticipating a blow out turnout because of all the PR and the pennant battle between the Tigers and the Yanks.

You are correct in that the ticket takers would all be privy to the Emergency tickets being "A" or "Z" or whatever depending on the day.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Jim,

I went back and re-read the info on Briggs stadium capacity available on the internet. I had two sources state that the capacity of Briggs Stadium was expanded to 30,000 in 1923, but you are correct in that they didn't expand to capacity of 36,000 until 2 years after Babe's 700th HR game in 1934.

Here is my original post about the Emergency tickets used in 1934 and my questions about the use of them after reading Josh from Huggins and Scotts post in the first thread:

"Very interesting...
I'm curious where the photo of all the tickets came from?
I see that it says eBay on the screen shot, but I'm intrigued how this image shows a ticket issued only one day apart (wow!) from the alleged Ruth 700 HR ticket. That's an amazing coincidence! They obviously are stamped identically, at the same angle, yet the Emergency Tickets are "A" tickets one day, and "Z" the following day- in July, no less (half way through the season)!
FWIW, about 22,000 were in attendance for Ruth's 700th HR. Did this require that the Tigers issue emergency tickets? I looked at all the surrounding games at DET on the 1934 schedule and they all appear to have similar attendance, especially with the Yankees in town. I saw attendances ranging from 20,000-26,000 during this homestand. I would also note that at least 4 games at DET prior to the NY series that featured Ruth's HR drew at least as many fans. One of the games drew 30,000 fans and the game on July 4th drew 40,000 fans for a twin bill. Would Ruth's 700th HR be Emergency ticket "Z" if it was at a minimum the 6th high attended game in DET in 1934?
I don't know, and I'm quite certain that no one knows for sure. It just seems odd to me, FWIW...

I certainly can be wrong, but I stand by my assertion that I have not seen other earlier vintage Tigers tickets stamped in this fashion prior to the screen shot that you posted"

FWIW, I now believe, given all of the new evidence submitted, that they would have issued Emergency tickets for the July 14th game as well, especially if they were anticipating a blow out turnout because of all the PR and the pennant battle between the Tigers and the Yanks.

You are correct in that the ticket takers would all be privy to the Emergency tickets being "A" or "Z" or whatever depending on the day.

Thanks Scott. I find this facinating,

Why were emergency tickets issued?
Was it only for the upper deck?
How would they keep track of seats so there were no duplicates sold? These weren't SRO, or lawn, or even GA. These were section/ row/ seat.

And can anyone answer WHY they were date stamped? Early purchase can be a possible explanation.
Has anyone found any others beyond the 2009 eBay lot. From any date beside the day before this ticket? Am I being too much of a PITA?

[shelly]

Why do you think your being anyting but interested is a pita.
I think the one place that no has gone to is the company that said the ticket not the autorgraph is real. I would love to know how they authenticated that ticket. If was not stamped how did they know it was from 1934.
Scott, don't get upset. I think that the company that said the ticket is authentic should explain why.
If there is secret to this then I wouild really be upset, that would mean that the ticket could be faked.
Leon, can you find this out?
Scott please correct me. The only 700 hr ticket you have seen was dated on the ticket and sold for $2500 plus. There is no other ticket out there except the one that is not a real ticket but one that is stamped. Hof,Yankees, Tigers, all of the place that you would think have a ticket don't. It is like Jimmey Spence authenticating an autograph that has no exemplars.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Thanks Scott. I find this facinating,

Why were emergency tickets issued?

Emergency tickets (aka E-tickets) are sold if an event is unscheduled, or if additional tickets were required above and beyond the original amount that was printed prior to the season starting. Season ticket holders received a small number of E-tickets with their other pre-printed tickets at the beginning of the season for games that were unscheduled.

Think about it, this is the Great Depression Era. Baseball teams were not drawing attendances like 2013. Many teams were struggling financially. Computer generated ticket technology didn't yet exist. A team would pay a contracted ticket company to print a certain designated number of tickets for each game. If the game had poor attendance, the ticket stock is wasted and was thrown away (money wasted). In order to not waste money on ticket printing costs, a team would use E-tickets. E-tickets were a generic ticket with no printed date. Also it should be noted that, if a rain out occurs earlier in the season, a make up day or game may have had to be scheduled later on in the year. E-tickets would need to be used for events such as these if a game was not made up for in a double header.

Was it only for the upper deck?

No, these seats could be sold for anywhere in the stadium where they did not already have an assigned seat. Every stadium has "reserved" sections of seats with seat numbers and "unreserved" section where no seat numbers are issues. Your ticket would gain you entrance to this section and then it became first come, first serve. Bleacher sections and G/A (General Admission) are some examples of this.

How would they keep track of seats so there were no duplicates sold? These weren't SRO, or lawn, or even GA. These were section/ row/ seat.

If you had tickets to an event that was cancelled or postponed it would be my assumption that your original ticket would be brought along to direct you to the correct seat. If you were in the Bleacher unreserved section, you would go back to the bleacher section. If additional seats (circus seats) were added to the lower level like in the 1934 Yankees/ Babe Ruth 700 HR series at DET, I have no idea. I wasn't a fly on the wall in 1934!

And can anyone answer WHY they were date stamped?

They were date stamped instead of printed for reasons that I explained in the first answer.

Early purchase can be a possible explanation.

Not that I am aware of

Has anyone found any others beyond the 2009 eBay lot. From any date beside the day before this ticket?


Not me, but I haven't really looked for it.

Am I being too much of a PITA?

No worries, this is all about learning and having fun with your hobby.

BTW, I would also like to mention a couple of other specific historic baseball games that Emergency tickets were used (both were unscheduled games):

1) Denny McLain's 31st win in 1968 at DET. McLain also served up Mickey Mantles 2nd to last career HR in this game. No printed or stamped date on this ticket at all.


2) HOF Wade Boggs' career ML debut at CWS. No printed or stamped date on this ticket.

Unless you knew what you were looking for, you would never know these tickets if you saw them.

It should be noted that many of my answers come from knowing friends that worked in baseball ticket offices for many years, FWIW...

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Why would they stamp the date on them? Am I wrong in the assumption they would have A-Z? Wouldn't any ticket taker be told it was an 'A' day?
These may be dumb questions, but I'm sure someone here knows.

I would think they would stamp it for the benefit of the ticket holder. It is likely that at least a handful of people purchased more than one ticket for the series. Without a date stamp, it might lead to confusion.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I collect, among other things, old NY Giants memorabilia.
I just checked my 1930's and 40's ticket stubs and they all have lots of printing on the back.
Was it common for Detroit tickets to be blank backed?

Richard,
That's an interesting question.

For the most part, Tigers tickets would have had printing on the back. No advertising, just information mostly regarding the teams right to revoke admission to patrons under certain circumstances. There also would be the brand of the ticket company that manufactured the ticket. During the 1930's and 1940's the Tigers used Ansell-Simplex Ticket Co. of Chicago, IL. This would typically be on the back of all ticket stock.

However, Emergency tickets may not have had the same treatment. Without having the opportunity to examine the back of other Emergency tickets from this era, I wouldn't know if they did or didn't have this printing. In looking through other Tigers tickets that I own, I do see at least one example from the 1950's where I DO NOT see printing on the back. These tickets are season tickets though, not regular box office tickets, thus possibly explaining the difference in printing process.

I hope this helps.