NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-27-2022, 05:06 PM
Econteachert205 Econteachert205 is offline
D3nn!s B@!!ou
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,897
Default Wainwright in the hall?

I’m just looking at Adam Wainwright and he’s a very close comp for Roy Halladay. It seems like he should be in or very close if the hall considers Halladay a Hofer. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-27-2022, 05:11 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Econteachert205 View Post
I’m just looking at Adam Wainwright and he’s a very close comp for Roy Halladay. It seems like he should be in or very close if the hall considers Halladay a Hofer. Thoughts?
Hall of very good IMO.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-27-2022, 05:16 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,324
Default

Don't think he has the resume of Halladay (2 Cy Youngs, perfect game, playoff no hitter). I think of him like Tim Hudson. A very good pitcher in a tough time to be one. But not elite.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-27-2022, 05:32 PM
cgjackson222's Avatar
cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is offline
Charles Jackson
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,404
Default

Wainwright was never dominant enough and his career stats are not particularly impressive. If he retires after this year, it is unlikely he will even get to 200 wins. A career WAR of 47.1 is just not good enough.

There are so many pitchers with career WARs in the 60s that have been passed by the Hall of Fame (for now): Cone, Tiant Rueschel, Kevin Brown. I don't think anyone with a career WAR in the 40s is going to get in any time soon.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-27-2022, 05:43 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Yeah, I don’t see the comparison. A nearly 20 point difference in WAR + 2 Cy Young’s and 7 top 5 finishes for Halladay.

Wainwright very good, but I don’t think comparing him to Halladay is the code cracker for him.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-27-2022, 06:03 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

Agree with above, and maybe not Molins either but what wonderful careers together and all with the same team.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-28-2022, 04:27 AM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Yeah, I don’t see the comparison. A nearly 20 point difference in WAR + 2 Cy Young’s and 7 top 5 finishes for Halladay.

Wainwright very good, but I don’t think comparing him to Halladay is the code cracker for him.
Well said and agree not in the HOF
__________________
Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:49 AM
Jim65's Avatar
Jim65 Jim65 is offline
Jam.es Braci.liano
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,277
Default

Do I think Wainwright is a HOFer? No

Do I think he will get in, eventually? Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:54 AM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
Wainwright was never dominant enough and his career stats are not particularly impressive. If he retires after this year, it is unlikely he will even get to 200 wins. A career WAR of 47.1 is just not good enough.

There are so many pitchers with career WARs in the 60s that have been passed by the Hall of Fame (for now): Cone, Tiant Rueschel, Kevin Brown. I don't think anyone with a career WAR in the 40s is going to get in any time soon.
Jack Morris just got in with a WAR of 43.5. 195 wins, a much better ERA than Morris and a big part of the Cards success through the years. Very unlikely by the writers, but a pretty typical Veterans selection.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-28-2022, 06:23 AM
Seven's Avatar
Seven Seven is offline
James M.
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: New York
Posts: 1,515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Jack Morris just got in with a WAR of 43.5. 195 wins, a much better ERA than Morris and a big part of the Cards success through the years. Very unlikely by the writers, but a pretty typical Veterans selection.
Jack Morris, along with a good chunk of the Veterans Committee selections, do not belong in the Hall of Fame. At this point, we've jumped the shark however, so it would not surprise me if Waino ended up in the Hall.

Baines, Maranville, Mazeroski, Rick Ferrell, Joe Gordon, plus all of the friends of Frankie Frisch that he pushed through once he started to head the Committee in 1967.
__________________
Successful Deals With:

charlietheexterminator, todeen, tonyo, Santo10fan
Bocabirdman (5x), 8thEastVB, JCMTiger, Rjackson44
Republicaninmass, 73toppsmann, quinnsryche (2x),
Donscards.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-28-2022, 07:10 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,324
Default

Jack Morris at least had his winningest pitcher of the 80s claim (up to the individual how important wins are). I don’t think Wainwright has a similar legend.

Last edited by packs; 09-28-2022 at 08:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-28-2022, 08:36 AM
BCauley's Avatar
BCauley BCauley is offline
Bill Cauley
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 422
Default

While he's had an excellent career, I'd say no to the HoF for him.

With that said, I anticipate that in the not too distant future, if it hasn't already started, there is going to be a shift in how starting pitchers are evaluated for the HoF. They are certainly used a lot more differently than they were even 10-20 years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-28-2022, 08:48 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,324
Default

I think deGrom will be that barometer.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-28-2022, 08:50 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,738
Default

well if he would of been a closer he would been in the Hall for the number of seasons he pitched...much easier to be a closer... its not like he didnt pitch more innings than a closer...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-28-2022, 08:51 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Econteachert205 View Post
I’m just looking at Adam Wainwright and he’s a very close comp for Roy Halladay. It seems like he should be in or very close if the hall considers Halladay a Hofer. Thoughts?
I havent checked but I always look at Andy Pettite as the cutoff (but i do think ANdy should be in due to the playoffs success)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-28-2022, 09:46 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Agree with above, and maybe not Molins either but what wonderful careers together and all with the same team.
Wow, negative against Molina? In my book I agree with statements on Waino. But I'd hope Yadi gets in - although he might not be first ballot. I'm looking at him on Jaws, and he is one of the top of this generation, with a resume a bit better than Buster Posey. He (42 WAR) and Posey (44 WAR) are very close in WAR. I know a lot of catchers don't make the HOF, but this would be a shame. Jorge Posada is comparable to both, but he was never better than Piazza or Ivan Rodriguez.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-28-2022, 10:31 AM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Wow, negative against Molina? In my book I agree with statements on Waino. But I'd hope Yadi gets in - although he might not be first ballot. I'm looking at him on Jaws, and he is one of the top of this generation, with a resume a bit better than Buster Posey. He (42 WAR) and Posey (44 WAR) are very close in WAR. I know a lot of catchers don't make the HOF, but this would be a shame. Jorge Posada is comparable to both, but he was never better than Piazza or Ivan Rodriguez.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Love Posada. Under-rated offensively as a catcher. 5 Silver Sluggers at his position. Unfortunately, not a great reputation defensively...though he wasn't horrible. Just kind of mediocre. He was great at handling pitching staffs, even if he didn't have the greatest arm to gun down base runners.

Not a HOF'er...but as borderline as a catcher can get IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-28-2022, 10:45 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,324
Default

Posada's situation has always bothered me. He was a really great offensive catcher. He's 9th in career home runs at the position. He played at a time when only Pudge and Piazza were better than him (two players who had cheating rumors follow them during their careers).

It's a crime he was one and done on the ballot. I don't know that he was a HOFer but he was a lot better than 99.9% of all one and done players and deserved more respect.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-28-2022, 10:58 AM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Posada's situation has always bothered me. He was a really great offensive catcher. He's 9th in career home runs at the position. He played at a time when only Pudge and Piazza were better than him (two players who had cheating rumors follow them during their careers).

It's a crime he was one and done on the ballot. I don't know that he was a HOFer but he was a lot better than 99.9% of all one and done players and deserved more respect.

Those Yankee teams were so great, because they had a lot of guys that were not quite HOF'ers, but pretty damn good when you put them on a team with a bunch of other not quite HOF'ers and actual HOF'ers. (Bernie, Petitte, Posada, O'Neill, Tino Martinez, Cone, Wells, etc..)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-28-2022, 11:14 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,324
Default

Bernie was another guy who I feel doesn’t get the respect he has coming. He only survived two votes. His raw stats are there but I also think he had a you had to see him play aspect to him. Such a great player to watch every day. Not sure what the Hall saw in Baines that it doesn’t see in Bernie. Even Baines made it to six votes.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-28-2022, 01:28 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,310
Default

IP:
Halladay: 2,749.1
Wainwright: 2,562.2

Record:
Halladay 203-105
Wainwright 195-116

ERA+, ERA, FIP:
Halladay: 131, 3.38, 3.39
Wainwright: 119, 3.36, 3.44

K/9, BB/9, H/9:
Halladay: 6.9, 1.9, 8.7
Wainwright: 7.5, 2.4, 8.5

WAR:
Halladay: 64.2
Wainwright: 47.1

So WAR loves Halladay, but they are really very similar for a career and WAR has a whole lot of value judgements that are arbitrary. ERA+ prefers Halladay in context, everything else is very close. I don't think this comparison should be dismissed out of hand.

Do I think Wainwright is a HOFer? No.
Do I think Halladay should be a HOFer? Probably just misses, really pushing it.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-28-2022, 01:42 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,310
Default

As for Yadier, I don't expect catchers to perform as well as 1B but a negative OPS+ is rare for a HOFer. Those are usually the guys everyone considers a mistake. I can think of only one catcher elected to the hall mostly or entirely for his defense, and that's Ray Schalk, who is derided. There's probably one or more two more, as well as 1 or 2 mysteries as to why they were elected at all.

I'm not sure that it should be this way, that we should weigh the bat so heavily for catchers, shortstops, that we shouldn't have defense only or mostly guys. There's a SS or two, Schalk, Mazeroski (also lambasted), Brooks was glove first but hit some big counting stat milestones with the bat and was slightly over league average.

42 WAR over 19 years is really bad when it comes to the Hall. He has 2 seasons over a 3.2, and 4 seasons from 3-3.2. So pretty much all of his career he was 0-3 wins by their accounting, if one is a WAR ranker. That's giving him an offensive bonus simply for even existing as a catcher, and then another bonus for his fieldwork every year. His bat is worth almost nothing.

He's passed 2,000 hits, by playing for 19 years, which has value. Longevity is worth a lot. It's not typically HOF material in itself. That's the closest he comes to a meritous traditional stat.


Posada is underrated historically, but I think also pushing it. He's got the bat to squeak in but wasn't worth much behind the plate. Posey, I am sure will make it but I am not really supportive of. 1,500 hits for a player primarily being elected as a contact hitter (yes he's a good glove, good framer, and 19 home runs a year isn't bad at all for a catcher, but his primary selling point is contact hitting) is very weak. His career is just so brief it's hard to put him in for what he actually did.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-28-2022, 02:50 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
IP:
Halladay: 2,749.1
Wainwright: 2,562.2

Record:
Halladay 203-105
Wainwright 195-116

ERA+, ERA, FIP:
Halladay: 131, 3.38, 3.39
Wainwright: 119, 3.36, 3.44

K/9, BB/9, H/9:
Halladay: 6.9, 1.9, 8.7
Wainwright: 7.5, 2.4, 8.5

WAR:
Halladay: 64.2
Wainwright: 47.1

So WAR loves Halladay, but they are really very similar for a career and WAR has a whole lot of value judgements that are arbitrary. ERA+ prefers Halladay in context, everything else is very close. I don't think this comparison should be dismissed out of hand.

Do I think Wainwright is a HOFer? No.
Do I think Halladay should be a HOFer? Probably just misses, really pushing it.

I think Halladay gets the pretty substantive WAR and ERA+ advantages because he compiled most of his stats against DH hitting AL East teams in AL East sized parks in a slightly more offensive era then Wainwright.

We saw his move from the Blue Jays to the Phillies, certainly didn't hurt his stats in the slightest, until things started catching up to him, his 3rd season in Philly.

Perception is also that Halladay was dominant for a nearly 9 year straight stretch of his career. Wainwright not so much. He had much more of a start and stop and start again type of career.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-28-2022, 02:59 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post

Perception is also that Halladay was dominant for a nearly 9 year straight stretch of his career. Wainwright not so much.
This is why I like looking up the actual, total numbers. Perceptions are not compelling.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-28-2022, 02:59 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,051
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Bernie was another guy who I feel doesn’t get the respect he has coming. He only survived two votes. His raw stats are there but I also think he had a you had to see him play aspect to him. Such a great player to watch every day. Not sure what the Hall saw in Baines that it doesn’t see in Bernie. Even Baines made it to six votes.

Bernie gets absolutely torched by his Defensive WAR evaluation. Like a lot of Yankees during that time period, he absolutely passed the eye test in defensively. Rarely made mistakes, but he didn't have much of an arm, and like Jeter, the metrics hated him, even when it looked like he was doing everything he was supposed to be doing out there.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-28-2022, 03:50 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
As for Yadier, I don't expect catchers to perform as well as 1B but a negative OPS+ is rare for a HOFer. Those are usually the guys everyone considers a mistake. I can think of only one catcher elected to the hall mostly or entirely for his defense, and that's Ray Schalk, who is derided. There's probably one or more two more, as well as 1 or 2 mysteries as to why they were elected at all.



I'm not sure that it should be this way, that we should weigh the bat so heavily for catchers, shortstops, that we shouldn't have defense only or mostly guys. There's a SS or two, Schalk, Mazeroski (also lambasted), Brooks was glove first but hit some big counting stat milestones with the bat and was slightly over league average.



42 WAR over 19 years is really bad when it comes to the Hall. He has 2 seasons over a 3.2, and 4 seasons from 3-3.2. So pretty much all of his career he was 0-3 wins by their accounting, if one is a WAR ranker. That's giving him an offensive bonus simply for even existing as a catcher, and then another bonus for his fieldwork every year. His bat is worth almost nothing.



He's passed 2,000 hits, by playing for 19 years, which has value. Longevity is worth a lot. It's not typically HOF material in itself. That's the closest he comes to a meritous traditional stat.





Posada is underrated historically, but I think also pushing it. He's got the bat to squeak in but wasn't worth much behind the plate. Posey, I am sure will make it but I am not really supportive of. 1,500 hits for a player primarily being elected as a contact hitter (yes he's a good glove, good framer, and 19 home runs a year isn't bad at all for a catcher, but his primary selling point is contact hitting) is very weak. His career is just so brief it's hard to put him in for what he actually did.
I give leeway to catchers for the wear and tear of a career. It's physically demanding on parts of the body that other fielding positions don't touch. So I give bigger points to longevity for a catcher that can play the position consistently. I know leadership has been greatly diminished, but catchers on these elite teams (Yankees, Cardinals, SF, etc) bring something special that supports the team year in and year out. Most people can name the catchers on these elite teams that were competitive for a decade. Posey, Yadi, and Jorge are always in these conversations.

On a different note, I also feel that our collective standards for the HOF have lagged behind the changing use of players. It's a big problem for pitchers, and it's a problem for catchers to. My best example is Felix Hernandez. He should be a HOF, having his career stats sabotaged by horrendous play of a terrible organization.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-28-2022, 04:18 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
I give leeway to catchers for the wear and tear of a career. It's physically demanding on parts of the body that other fielding positions don't touch. So I give bigger points to longevity for a catcher that can play the position consistently. I know leadership has been greatly diminished, but catchers on these elite teams (Yankees, Cardinals, SF, etc) bring something special that supports the team year in and year out. Most people can name the catchers on these elite teams that were competitive for a decade. Posey, Yadi, and Jorge are always in these conversations.

On a different note, I also feel that our collective standards for the HOF have lagged behind the changing use of players. It's a big problem for pitchers, and it's a problem for catchers to. My best example is Felix Hernandez. He should be a HOF, having his career stats sabotaged by horrendous play of a terrible organization.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Longevity is worth a lot. I do not think that playing 19 years is enough to merit the hall of fame. Are Bob Boone and Jason Kendall hall of famers? You get points for being there, but there has to be something more than just being there too. Even the Hall's greatest compilers have more highlights (measured in their own, objective performance) than Yadier. Excellent glove, always there, below league average bat.

Being on a good team is, I think, no reason to elect anyone. The Hall is an individual achievement.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:44 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,947
Default

Maybe Molina and Wainwright can be nominated together as a battery
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adam Wainwright Signature Request (with Inscription) smotan_02 Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports 8 01-07-2017 07:47 AM
OT: Who should be in the Hall that isn't HOF Auto Rookies Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 244 07-07-2014 05:30 AM
You'd think the Hall of Fame would get it right Rob D. Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 14 03-01-2010 11:12 AM
Who Should Be in the Hall that isn't TT40391 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 118 01-26-2010 01:12 PM
A DH in the Hall? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 04-28-2004 08:12 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:09 AM.


ebay GSB