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  #51  
Old 09-23-2022, 05:17 PM
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I broke out my "All Rise For The Judge" t-shirt for the first time in a couple of years, and wore it to the neighborhood Publix yesterday. This is Red Sox land down here. Fenway South, otherwise known as Jet Blue Stadium is here. Both the Twins and the Red Sox hold spring training here, but make no mistake, the Red Sox own this town. My Judge shirt got lots of comments and compliments. People down here know what's going on, and yes, it is being talked about and seen as a big deal. When Red Sox fans compliment a Yankees accomplishment, it is a VERY big deal.
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  #52  
Old 09-23-2022, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Agree. In my circle of people and crotchety old men in my family, including some very close relatives......the ones complaining about sports losing fans because of stances around social issues and sticking their nose into "politics", are the same crotchety old men who are the first to bring up politics at the dinner table in the first place.
Well, I guess we can agree to disagree if that’s ok? - I am 60 - I hate politics but many, many of my friends have left baseball and football as well….sick of the kneeling, moving All Star Games, athletes bashing politicians on both sides of the aisle in public forums, changing team names ( Cleveland ball players are Indians - not Guardians ), owners chasing the money, etc….one person gets offended and the world crumbles…

I want to watch the game….I want to enjoy the players talents…..that’s been taken away from us….I want to be a kid again…..and it’s as clear as daylight….one of many reasons why I don’t watch as much…traveling for work and family demands being the biggest issue with not being able to watch more…

But I still love collecting vintage stuff!! Lastly - good luck Aaron! Hit as many as you can this year!
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  #53  
Old 09-23-2022, 05:52 PM
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Judge is currently winning a triple crown. How does that impact his season if he holds on? Personally if Judge wins the triple crown and hits over 61 home runs he’s had one of the greatest seasons of all time.
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  #54  
Old 09-23-2022, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
Maris held the record, 62 will not be the record and will be a footnote. It will have no mention in any record book (other than Yankees team records) and no ball will sit in the Hall.

As to anyone going on the notion of the game as some platonic ideal existing before the big bad performance enhancers is patently false and the reason why the HOF is a joke. Today's players are more than likely the cleanest in history with the tightest rules but you can make a salient argument that Tommy john surgery or even Lazik is a performance enhancer not had by previous generations so that beat will go on forever.

I can pretend that Willie Mays and Mantle did not take amphetamines (Mantle is an excellent example because the reason he was out of the race in 61' was a botched shot from a known doctor giving cocktails of speed and steroids), but that would be ignoring facts. I can pretend the deadball pitching records were not exacerbated by a legal spitball and a high mound. I can pretend that the first record of attempted steroid use was not by a HOF member in 1889. I can pretend that Lyle Alzado was not stacking steroids in college in 1967 and I am supposed to believe that something that easy to find was untouched in the major leagues even while legal until the mid-80's. I can pretend a lot, but that's just sitting in a bar and ignoring what really happened and just accept that life goes on.

We can't erase history any more and need to just move on. No matter what, the record is not 61 in any book. It is a great season for Judge and I will give him that for sure, but not historic.
WADA disagrees with you. They consider MLB's testing and penalties inadequate. Tim Montgomery set the world record in the 100 meters. If you look in the record books you see no record of him ever setting the record. He was one of BALCOs clients along with Barry Bonds.

We certainly can erase the history of cheaters. That is the international standard of sports. Lance Armstrong won zero Tour de Frances. You are entitled to believe Bonds holds the record just as anyone else is entitled to call Maris the true record holder and if Judge hits 62, the new record holder.
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  #55  
Old 09-23-2022, 08:07 PM
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The kneeling was never shown live on television until it became a story.


QUOTE=JimmyC;2266820]Well, I guess we can agree to disagree if that’s ok? - I am 60 - I hate politics but many, many of my friends have left baseball and football as well….sick of the kneeling, moving All Star Games, athletes bashing politicians on both sides of the aisle in public forums, changing team names ( Cleveland ball players are Indians - not Guardians ), owners chasing the money, etc….one person gets offended and the world crumbles…

I want to watch the game….I want to enjoy the players talents…..that’s been taken away from us….I want to be a kid again…..and it’s as clear as daylight….one of many reasons why I don’t watch as much…traveling for work and family demands being the biggest issue with not being able to watch more…

But I still love collecting vintage stuff!! Lastly - good luck Aaron! Hit as many as you can this year![/QUOTE]
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  #56  
Old 09-24-2022, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Judge is currently winning a triple crown. How does that impact his season if he holds on? Personally if Judge wins the triple crown and hits over 61 home runs he’s had one of the greatest seasons of all time.
Couldn’t agree with you more….there have been 23 perfect games I believe? But only 12 Triple Crown seasons….you can be off the charts for one game…..hard to be off the charts for an entire season…...a very rare feat indeed….
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  #57  
Old 09-24-2022, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DeanH3 View Post
The other thing I find interesting is the lack of price explosion on Judge cards. I admit I haven't followed the pricing much. But a quick search of eBay shows very reasonably priced Judge RC cards. Usually, it seems that in the past there would be a huge uptick in prices. I wonder if it's because 61 isn't the record anymore. Still, he has a legit shot at a triple crown as well.
Per CardLadder, Judge's market is up ~196% over the last 6 months (since the start of the season). It's not huge, like 10x, but given the ultra modern market as a whole is down, that's pretty good.
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  #58  
Old 09-25-2022, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC View Post
I don't watch baseball like I used to anymore for many reasons.....still love collecting the vintage stuff though - from my youth and before - cards, game used stuff, autos, etc.....

So - I'll probably be watching replays when Judge hits 61 and beyond...which I look forward to...

From my perspective though, Maris is no footnote....He still holds the 162 game record for most home runs....PERIOD....Mac, Sosa and Bonds were juicers....cheats....plain and simple....

I know many of you here will disagree but that's what makes us all different!

Good luck to Judge....He seems like a good guy....The Maris children should be proud that their Dad's 162 game schedule home run record lasted 61 years...

IMHO
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  #59  
Old 09-25-2022, 11:43 AM
FrankWakefield FrankWakefield is offline
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What Judge is doing / may do is of interest to Yankee fans. And that's about it. He isn't in a home run chase. When driving along an interstate I'm not chasing or racing mile markers, I'm just passing them. Judge is clicking off home run markers.

In 1961, Mantle and Maris were hitting home runs, and the country started looking at the possibility of one or both reaching Ruth's 60. Mantle and Maris had each other for competition. In 1998, McGwire and Sosa, on different teams, did the same. Some baseball analysists and historians thought it revived the interest in baseball that had been hurt by the 1993 strike. Takes at least two to race.

I saw McGwire and Sosa that year. Batting practice had a different quality to it. It reminded me of Church. Quieter, and with a bit of reverence. When either stepped into the batting cage, it got quiet. Players in the dugouts stepped up to see. Fans watched. Ushers and vendors paused. And when a ball was well hit, Ooo's and Aah's replaced the Amen's. And the voiced acclaim extended if the ball was arcing up into the stands.

When I think of 1998, my mind shifts to NASCAR when the haters voice disdain for McGwire and Sosa. As a disgruntled and disagreeable teenager, I saw my first NASCAR race in 1971. I didn't want to go. I became a convert that day, I saw Richard Petty win the Daytona 500. As I slowly developed a bit of interest in the sport, I discovered this stuff about 1970 and the Plymouth Superbird, that car with the high spoiler wing so that it was slightly higher than the roof of the car, getting it up into clean air when the car was at speed. in 1970, Petty won about 18 races with Superbirds. It violated no NASCAR rules of the day. But NASCAR changed the rules. For Superbirds to run in the 1971 season they'd have to reduce horsepower; and the cars weren't selling well at dealerships so the requirement about having the number of cars sold having to equal or exceed 2 x total dealerships was going to be a problem. My point, MLB's steroids / PED ban commenced in 2005. McGwire and Sosa didn't break any rules in 1998, there weren't any. There were rules as Clemens ended his career with the Yankees. And for A-Rod at the end of his (more on A.Rod later). Bond's had his 73 HR year in 2001, before the rules. He only played in 14 games in 2005 (was he pausing to get so he'd pass substance tests?). He hit 54 HRs total in 2006 and 2007, enough to get him past Aaron... So you guys can lump oranges and apples together, but you should at least recognize the differences.

Who was the first baseball player to be suspected of using Performance Enhancing Drugs? May well have been Pud Galvin, who's already in the HOF.

A-Rod. He didn't play in 2014, he was suspended. If he'd played (and some other 'if's like testing clean or not testing positive), then he'd have easily passed 700 and he'd have had a likely shot at passing 714. Reckon MLB and NYY wanted him to pass Babe Ruth? I think not. And that one year suspension did it. Maybe management would have held him out of games and 'rested' him if he'd have gotten close. (Reminds me of Whitey Ford winning 20 games or more only two seasons. What I recall is that management didn't want Whitey winning 20+ games, because they didn't want him using that when bargaining contract salary. Publicly, the Yankees were resting him a bit, not working him to hard, so he'd be fresh for the World Series. There were a bunch of those.) And it reminds me of how 100 years ago and a bit, the Cubs let go of Ed Reulbach, and he was picked up by Brooklyn, then the Federal League Newark team, then the Boston Braves. He ended up with only 182 wins. But the owners held him out (I believe) because he was active in the Baseball Players' Fraternity, he was an officer. Owners didn't like that. I think the owners denied him 25-30 wins. That, with his 2.28 lifetime ERA, his career hits allowed each season was always fewer than his innings pitched... The owners, GRRRRR. They didn't keep him outa the Hall, there was no Hall at the time. But I think he'd be in now if the owners hadn't clamped down on him, and others, for advocating for players' rights. Imagine what they'd have done to Curt Flood.

A lot of the time I find myself hating on something. I guess us haters are gonna hate. Let's put a bit of information sauce on that portion of hate.

One more thing... in baseball trivia, did you guys see which player from the 1960's appeared in the most World Series games? I saw him play in two WS games, but I didn't know the answer.

Last edited by FrankWakefield; 09-25-2022 at 11:45 AM.
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  #60  
Old 09-25-2022, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post

One more thing... in baseball trivia, did you guys see which player from the 1960's appeared in the most World Series games? I saw him play in two WS games, but I didn't know the answer.

Was it Roger Maris?
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  #61  
Old 09-25-2022, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Was it Roger Maris?


What will be the most popular name for children of baseball fans in the next year?


Henry Judge

or

Aaron Aaron
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  #62  
Old 09-25-2022, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post
What Judge is doing / may do is of interest to Yankee fans. And that's about it.
Well, I think there is more interest in what Judge is doing than just in the Yankees universe, Lol.

But he seems to have gone into a little hitting funk. Pressure?
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  #63  
Old 09-25-2022, 05:58 PM
FrankWakefield FrankWakefield is offline
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Yes Dave, Roger Maris.

1960, 61, 62, 63, and 64 for the Yankees, winning in 61 and 62.

1967 and 68 with the Cardinals, winning in 67.

That's a lot of World Series play. He was a pretty good ball player.
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  #64  
Old 09-25-2022, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post
What Judge is doing / may do is of interest to Yankee fans. And that's about it. He isn't in a home run chase. When driving along an interstate I'm not chasing or racing mile markers, I'm just passing them. Judge is clicking off home run markers.

In 1961, Mantle and Maris were hitting home runs, and the country started looking at the possibility of one or both reaching Ruth's 60. Mantle and Maris had each other for competition. In 1998, McGwire and Sosa, on different teams, did the same. Some baseball analysists and historians thought it revived the interest in baseball that had been hurt by the 1993 strike. Takes at least two to race.

I saw McGwire and Sosa that year. Batting practice had a different quality to it. It reminded me of Church. Quieter, and with a bit of reverence. When either stepped into the batting cage, it got quiet. Players in the dugouts stepped up to see. Fans watched. Ushers and vendors paused. And when a ball was well hit, Ooo's and Aah's replaced the Amen's. And the voiced acclaim extended if the ball was arcing up into the stands.

When I think of 1998, my mind shifts to NASCAR when the haters voice disdain for McGwire and Sosa. As a disgruntled and disagreeable teenager, I saw my first NASCAR race in 1971. I didn't want to go. I became a convert that day, I saw Richard Petty win the Daytona 500. As I slowly developed a bit of interest in the sport, I discovered this stuff about 1970 and the Plymouth Superbird, that car with the high spoiler wing so that it was slightly higher than the roof of the car, getting it up into clean air when the car was at speed. in 1970, Petty won about 18 races with Superbirds. It violated no NASCAR rules of the day. But NASCAR changed the rules. For Superbirds to run in the 1971 season they'd have to reduce horsepower; and the cars weren't selling well at dealerships so the requirement about having the number of cars sold having to equal or exceed 2 x total dealerships was going to be a problem. My point, MLB's steroids / PED ban commenced in 2005. McGwire and Sosa didn't break any rules in 1998, there weren't any. There were rules as Clemens ended his career with the Yankees. And for A-Rod at the end of his (more on A.Rod later). Bond's had his 73 HR year in 2001, before the rules. He only played in 14 games in 2005 (was he pausing to get so he'd pass substance tests?). He hit 54 HRs total in 2006 and 2007, enough to get him past Aaron... So you guys can lump oranges and apples together, but you should at least recognize the differences.

Who was the first baseball player to be suspected of using Performance Enhancing Drugs? May well have been Pud Galvin, who's already in the HOF.

A-Rod. He didn't play in 2014, he was suspended. If he'd played (and some other 'if's like testing clean or not testing positive), then he'd have easily passed 700 and he'd have had a likely shot at passing 714. Reckon MLB and NYY wanted him to pass Babe Ruth? I think not. And that one year suspension did it. Maybe management would have held him out of games and 'rested' him if he'd have gotten close. (Reminds me of Whitey Ford winning 20 games or more only two seasons. What I recall is that management didn't want Whitey winning 20+ games, because they didn't want him using that when bargaining contract salary. Publicly, the Yankees were resting him a bit, not working him to hard, so he'd be fresh for the World Series. There were a bunch of those.) And it reminds me of how 100 years ago and a bit, the Cubs let go of Ed Reulbach, and he was picked up by Brooklyn, then the Federal League Newark team, then the Boston Braves. He ended up with only 182 wins. But the owners held him out (I believe) because he was active in the Baseball Players' Fraternity, he was an officer. Owners didn't like that. I think the owners denied him 25-30 wins. That, with his 2.28 lifetime ERA, his career hits allowed each season was always fewer than his innings pitched... The owners, GRRRRR. They didn't keep him outa the Hall, there was no Hall at the time. But I think he'd be in now if the owners hadn't clamped down on him, and others, for advocating for players' rights. Imagine what they'd have done to Curt Flood.

A lot of the time I find myself hating on something. I guess us haters are gonna hate. Let's put a bit of information sauce on that portion of hate.

One more thing... in baseball trivia, did you guys see which player from the 1960's appeared in the most World Series games? I saw him play in two WS games, but I didn't know the answer.
Rules? What Bonds and the steroid cheats did was basically against the LAW. You can't get em from your buddy.

Besides that. Judge is doing it clean (we assume) so 60 is a big deal.

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  #65  
Old 09-25-2022, 08:35 PM
BobC BobC is offline
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Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake View Post
Rules? What Bonds and the steroid cheats did was basically against the LAW. You can't get em from your buddy.

Besides that. Judge is doing it clean (we assume) so 60 is a big deal.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Also don't forget that back during Maris' time, many ballplayers were known to be taking amphetamines to improve their focus and "twitch" muscle reaction time. And I seem to also remember having heard that the Yankees were one of those teams that supposedly always had a pot or two of coffee on during games back then, oftentimes laced with amphetamines, that some players would drink during games for that additional caffeine/amphetamine rush. Is it possible Maris may have taken part in using this to his advantage as well on some occasions?

Last edited by BobC; 09-25-2022 at 08:38 PM.
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  #66  
Old 09-25-2022, 08:51 PM
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Also don't forget that back during Maris' time, many ballplayers were known to be taking amphetamines to improve their focus and "twitch" muscle reaction time. And I seem to also remember having heard that the Yankees were one of those teams that supposedly always had a pot or two of coffee on during games back then, oftentimes laced with amphetamines, that some players would drink during games for that additional caffeine/amphetamine rush. Is it possible Maris may have taken part in using this to his advantage as well on some occasions?
Sure, but then you get into effects--- did the "leaded" coffee have the same benefits as steroids?

What the steroid guys did was next level---it made a great Bonds immortal but to me he is the home run king, and massive cheat.

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  #67  
Old 09-25-2022, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Also don't forget that back during Maris' time, many ballplayers were known to be taking amphetamines to improve their focus and "twitch" muscle reaction time. And I seem to also remember having heard that the Yankees were one of those teams that supposedly always had a pot or two of coffee on during games back then, oftentimes laced with amphetamines, that some players would drink during games for that additional caffeine/amphetamine rush. Is it possible Maris may have taken part in using this to his advantage as well on some occasions?
And let's not forget Ruth, you know the Babe was boozed up or recovering from a night out many an at bat. And that was during Prohibation, so you want to talk about breaking the law.

They all did what they had to do during their time period.

I thought the McGwire Sosa first season head to head was TREMENDOUS!

Who care's if they were juiced, about 3 guys on the planet hit the ball like that and 80/90% were doing it and they couldn't do what Sosa, McGwire and Bonds did.

And I'll say that one season Bonds had was the greatest by a hitter I ever saw. THAT TOO WAS TREMENDOUS!!!
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  #68  
Old 09-25-2022, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake View Post
Sure, but then you get into effects--- did the "leaded" coffee have the same benefits as steroids?

What the steroid guys did was next level---it made a great Bonds immortal but to me he is the home run king, and massive cheat.

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I don't know, do you? Having additional muscle strength is great, but even if you're stronger, all that strength won't do you a damn bit of good if you can't swing and get the bat on the ball. I've never seen or heard how PEDs like Bonds and others allegedly used improved hand-eye coordination, bat speed, eyesight, or other attributes or abilities that would help them to get the bat on the ball. It is possible for humans to work out like crazy to build muscle mass and strength without illegal steroids and PEDs, very hard, but still possible. Are there similar things humans can do though to increase that focus and "twitch" response time naturally, without the use of heavy doses of caffeine and possibly other chemicals or substances?

With a lot of the short fences today, and the increased velocity that modern pitchers overall seem to throw at, all a smaller guy really has to do is get the bat on the ball solidly to then use the increased energy in that pitch to send it over the fence. Newton's third law of motion/physics, I believe. Strength alone is not the sole, main factor to hitting home runs. You possibly looking at players taking 'roids/PEDs and claiming they took cheating to the next level isn't necessarily wrong, but it might be a little short-sighted in not also recognizing that the use of caffeine/amphetamines is technically using a type of PED as well, and in the end just as wrong.

Throughout the history of baseball, many players have done things on an individual basis to cheat and gain an advantage. To me though, what really constitutes taking cheating to the "next level" is when you have a team/organization working in a joint manner where many people are working together to cheat and take advantage of an opponent. To me that would be the ultimate unpardonable sin, and anyone found involved in such a collusive activity should be immediately banned from MLB for life. And we've had that happen, yet MLB didn't really do a damn thing to anyone involved, did they? And to me that is an even worse offense than what the conspiring cheaters did.
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  #69  
Old 09-25-2022, 10:10 PM
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And let's not forget Ruth, you know the Babe was boozed up or recovering from a night out many an at bat. And that was during Prohibation, so you want to talk about breaking the law.

They all did what they had to do during their time period.

I thought the McGwire Sosa first season head to head was TREMENDOUS!

Who care's if they were juiced, about 3 guys on the planet hit the ball like that and 80/90% were doing it and they couldn't do what Sosa, McGwire and Bonds did.

And I'll say that one season Bonds had was the greatest by a hitter I ever saw. THAT TOO WAS TREMENDOUS!!!
I also thought I had read/heard somewhere that Ruth got caught using a corked/juiced bat once as well.

The fact is that MLB didn't have specific rules in place against the use of PEDs at the time. The home run competition between those two helped boost MLB in the aftermath of the strike that had taken place earlier in the 90's. MLB was eating it up, and taking every advantage they could to make money off what the PED users were doing.
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  #70  
Old 09-25-2022, 11:59 PM
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Stan, I guess my concern is the Tatis Jr. story. I feel like we are still in the steroid era. Bonds is not a past tense era guy, he's in this era.
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  #71  
Old 09-26-2022, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Stan, I guess my concern is the Tatis Jr. story. I feel like we are still in the steroid era. Bonds is not a past tense era guy, he's in this era.
No, compare what Tatis took to what Bonds took. And there is not the rampant usage happening today.

So we think.

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Old 09-26-2022, 12:23 AM
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I don't know, do you? Having additional muscle strength is great, but even if you're stronger, all that strength won't do you a damn bit of good if you can't swing and get the bat on the ball. I've never seen or heard how PEDs like Bonds and others allegedly used improved hand-eye coordination, bat speed, eyesight, or other attributes or abilities that would help them to get the bat on the ball. It is possible for humans to work out like crazy to build muscle mass and strength without illegal steroids and PEDs, very hard, but still possible. Are there similar things humans can do though to increase that focus and "twitch" response time naturally, without the use of heavy doses of caffeine and possibly other chemicals or substances?



With a lot of the short fences today, and the increased velocity that modern pitchers overall seem to throw at, all a smaller guy really has to do is get the bat on the ball solidly to then use the increased energy in that pitch to send it over the fence. Newton's third law of motion/physics, I believe. Strength alone is not the sole, main factor to hitting home runs. You possibly looking at players taking 'roids/PEDs and claiming they took cheating to the next level isn't necessarily wrong, but it might be a little short-sighted in not also recognizing that the use of caffeine/amphetamines is technically using a type of PED as well, and in the end just as wrong.



Throughout the history of baseball, many players have done things on an individual basis to cheat and gain an advantage. To me though, what really constitutes taking cheating to the "next level" is when you have a team/organization working in a joint manner where many people are working together to cheat and take advantage of an opponent. To me that would be the ultimate unpardonable sin, and anyone found involved in such a collusive activity should be immediately banned from MLB for life. And we've had that happen, yet MLB didn't really do a damn thing to anyone involved, did they? And to me that is an even worse offense than what the conspiring cheaters did.
I agree MLB / Selig should be vilified for allowing this to happen..but Selig is in the hall! Joke.

And yeah you can tell the effects....Mcgwire/ Sosa / Bonds basically doubled their HR output and grew monstrous in size.

They're professional baseball players they can get the bat on the ball lol. They don't need to learn to make contact like Rod Carew. And now instead of flying out to center it sails over the fence.

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Old 09-26-2022, 12:25 AM
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No, compare what Tatis took to what Bonds took. And there is not the rampant usage happening today.

So we think.

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I honestly don't know what they do. I'm saying I take the numbers with a grain of salt. Why does Baltimore have a 20 foot wall down the left field line that is 384 feet away?
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Old 09-26-2022, 12:26 AM
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And let's not forget Ruth, you know the Babe was boozed up or recovering from a night out many an at bat. And that was during Prohibation, so you want to talk about breaking the law.



They all did what they had to do during their time period.



I thought the McGwire Sosa first season head to head was TREMENDOUS!



Who care's if they were juiced, about 3 guys on the planet hit the ball like that and 80/90% were doing it and they couldn't do what Sosa, McGwire and Bonds did.



And I'll say that one season Bonds had was the greatest by a hitter I ever saw. THAT TOO WAS TREMENDOUS!!!
Yeah I thought it was all TREMENDOUS too until I learned it was not legit.

Seasons like Judge/Pujols are what MLB needs, not steroid cheats.

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Old 09-26-2022, 12:29 AM
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I honestly don't know what they do. I'm saying I take the numbers with a grain of salt. Why does Baltimore have a 20 foot wall down the left field line that is 384 feet away?
That's my point. The devil is in the details...

Deflating a ball isnt the same as fixing a World Series...

I think we have to examine each case and then debate/determine where it lands on the pantheon of cheaters.

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Old 09-26-2022, 08:53 AM
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This article about the Maris family and their POV on the record is from 2011:

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/articl...rd-2308400.php

And again in 2022:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...ron-judge.html
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Old 09-26-2022, 09:07 AM
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Yeah I thought it was all TREMENDOUS too until I learned it was not legit.

Seasons like Judge/Pujols are what MLB needs, not steroid cheats.

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Amen.....
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Old 09-26-2022, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Hxcmilkshake View Post
Yeah I thought it was all TREMENDOUS too until I learned it was not legit.

Seasons like Judge/Pujols are what MLB needs, not steroid cheats.

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Any chance Judge and/or Pujols will be later discovered to have engaged in questionable performance enhancing activities?

It might be a little premature to spike the football and proclaim these two players to be cleaner than the driven snow. They might just have better chemists.

Especially in light of the fact that Pujols is almost definitely not actually 42 years old.
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:43 AM
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Judge looks like he has the weight of WW3 on his shoulders. I suspect a better manager like Dave Roberts or Buck Showalter would be pulling this guy aside and helping him relax a bit more. One shot after another in the dugout last night and not one smile or a laugh.

Having the Maris family there for days on end. . . . .that's got to build up the pressure.

Not that he was listening to the broadcast last night, but was hard at time to remember a game was actually going on. Seemed like 1000s of shots of him sitting on the bench staring emotionless at the game. And then when the announcers started saying completely ridiculous nonsense about the game some continuing in a break in the monsoon that was hitting the area I went to bed.

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Old 09-26-2022, 12:26 PM
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Rules? What Bonds and the steroid cheats did was basically against the LAW. You can't get em from your buddy.

Besides that. Judge is doing it clean (we assume) so 60 is a big deal.

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In actuality most of the known supplements taken by many of these players were available at the local GNC and most banned but not illegal substances still are. The Androstenedione that was in the legendary locker background for Big Mac and caused the media stink was being taken by myself admittedly along with some much more powerful agents. Andro is still not illegal, but banned for import since 4/11/2004. Certainly, I can't say this was a harmless activity as I have had cancer twice now and I have no idea if they were interrelated. Most of these supplements were not banned in the US until after the home run chase due to the media focus. As to the Balco type drugs, "The Clear" was legal until 2005 as they were new inventions that the laws had to update to reflect these as illegal as well. The 70's-80s base steroids (Decastacks) were very legal and found in any gym or back pages of weightlifting magazines until 2/27/91 when they were made schedule 3. HGH is also still legal as it gets and available to anyone with the money to get it (check for any "anti-aging" clinic near you and I will bet that you can walk right in for HGH shots and Testosterone supplements/shots/or cremes).

I was an industrial mechanic and a private security agent on weekends for extra money in the early 90's. I was constantly injured from one-shouldering 250 lb worm drives and VFDs while working on mezzanines 40 ft in the air. I took them to heal so I could bring in income for my family and worked out daily to avoid being on disability. I took nothing that was permitted in MLB, but nothing I could not buy easily on line or at GNC. The breaking laws argument is a myth, the breaking league rules after those dates was the only "crime" per say.
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Old 09-26-2022, 12:44 PM
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Any chance Judge and/or Pujols will be later discovered to have engaged in questionable performance enhancing activities?



It might be a little premature to spike the football and proclaim these two players to be cleaner than the driven snow. They might just have better chemists.



Especially in light of the fact that Pujols is almost definitely not actually 42 years old.
If so, they get burned at the stake.

Until then, why speculate? Why stop there?

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Old 09-26-2022, 12:49 PM
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In actuality most of the known supplements taken by many of these players were available at the local GNC and most banned but not illegal substances still are. The Androstenedione that was in the legendary locker background for Big Mac and caused the media stink was being taken by myself admittedly along with some much more powerful agents. Andro is still not illegal, but banned for import since 4/11/2004. Certainly, I can't say this was a harmless activity as I have had cancer twice now and I have no idea if they were interrelated. Most of these supplements were not banned in the US until after the home run chase due to the media focus. As to the Balco type drugs, "The Clear" was legal until 2005 as they were new inventions that the laws had to update to reflect these as illegal as well. The 70's-80s base steroids (Decastacks) were very legal and found in any gym or back pages of weightlifting magazines until 2/27/91 when they were made schedule 3. HGH is also still legal as it gets and available to anyone with the money to get it (check for any "anti-aging" clinic near you and I will bet that you can walk right in for HGH shots and Testosterone supplements/shots/or cremes).

I was an industrial mechanic and a private security agent on weekends for extra money in the early 90's. I was constantly injured from one-shouldering 250 lb worm drives and VFDs while working on mezzanines 40 ft in the air. I took them to heal so I could bring in income for my family and worked out daily to avoid being on disability. I took nothing that was permitted in MLB, but nothing I could not buy easily on line or at GNC. The breaking laws argument is a myth, the breaking league rules after those dates was the only "crime" per say.
I don't agree its a myth. It is illegal to use steroids or hgh without a rx from a dr.

Not Greg Anderson, who served time because of it. Albeit a slap on the wrist.

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Old 09-26-2022, 01:10 PM
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I don't agree its a myth. It is illegal to use steroids or hgh without a rx from a dr.

Not Greg Anderson, who served time because of it. Albeit a slap on the wrist.

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I was stating during those dates.

However, it is as difficult to get now as getting a subscription for Viagra over the computer.

HGH and steroids are just hidden under the anti-aging label now. I see you are in FL, here is an example of an "anti-aging" center. These have "doctors", but much as the same as states with legalized pot to get a card.

https://floridaantiagingcenter.com/men/

And Greg Anderson got a whole 90 days because it was for conspiracy to distribute and money laundering, not possession.

You are deferring current laws to the past, so I just wanted to show the juxtaposition just like salad bowls of Greenies in 60's/70's locker rooms.

Each and every generation has pushed the envelope. The amphetamines' were legal, hell JFK was fully drugged up on speed everyday. I have never seen proof nor does it exist scientifically that steroids' increase hand eye coordination. And as you said any MLB player can make contact with the ball...well the averages have a lot of argument for that. Can they impact distance? Well I could see that for sure.

As to the greenies, Doc Ellis and many other players have stated that they slowed the game and made hitting much easier. To the point that any ADHD meds which are a similar issue are banned to kingdom come. I just really think no great period is gleaming with honesty. A player focused on his career will likely do anything on the earth to prolong or better it, it's competitiveness... and that has caused numerous problems for history.
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Old 09-26-2022, 05:22 PM
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If so, they get burned at the stake.

Until then, why speculate? Why stop there?

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Pujols for sure.......Judge probably.
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Old 09-28-2022, 09:58 PM
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Congratulations to Aaron Judge, and to the Yankee fans out there!
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Old 09-28-2022, 10:04 PM
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What will be the most popular name for children of baseball fans in the next year?


Henry Judge

or

Aaron Aaron
My guess, if it's a baby born in California he/she will be named "Asterisk".
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Old 09-29-2022, 08:40 AM
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Congratulations to Aaron Judge, and to the Yankee fans out there!
Congrats Aaron! One of the finest seasons ever compiled in MLB history by one of the finest gentleman in baseball today! 62 on Friday night at home? He will blow the roof off the Stadium!
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Old 09-29-2022, 09:31 AM
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I was busy working last night, so did not see the game. Nobody said anything, but I didn't ask. My darling wife knew, but she also knew I would watch the Yankees-Blue Jays highlights on YouTube. When I saw Aaron Judge hit # 61, I started crying; I was so happy for Aaron. Glad too that Roger Maris Jr. and Aaron's parents got to see this historic home run, and have become close. I'm just so happy about this-----61----HEY HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 09-29-2022, 10:50 AM
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My view of #61. I was in the second deck and the ball landed almost directly below me.
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File Type: jpg Judge 61.jpg (145.8 KB, 59 views)
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:52 AM
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My view of #61. I was in the second deck and the ball landed almost directly below me.
awesome! nice pic...ball on bat!!!!
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Old 09-29-2022, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Even if you erase from your memory, Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa, and Gonzo and Ortiz, etal.... Giancarlo Stanton hit 59 in 2017 for the Marlins. I don't remember it being a big deal at all.

I think a Triple Crown would be cool, but it's not a daily must see like a hitting streak. Cabrera did it a while back and I bet Tigers fans loved it. I thought it was neat.


I wish Luis Gonzalez didn't get clumped in with those guys, but, I guess, if 57 homers weren't obvious enough, he had to go and have triplets. LOL


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Old 09-29-2022, 01:09 PM
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My view of #61. I was in the second deck and the ball landed almost directly below me.
Great shot!! What a fantastic game to attend!
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Old 09-29-2022, 02:58 PM
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61 Hrs in 155 games. Judge tied Ruth's 154 game total of 60. Too bad he didn't hit number 61 one game sooner.
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Old 09-29-2022, 03:05 PM
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My guess, if it's a baby born in California he/she will be named "Asterisk".
Not as damning as A-steroid I suppose.
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