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  #1  
Old 01-06-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default Who Should Be in the Hall that isn't

I know you guys have argued about this before but I thought this would be a good time to bring the debate back up with the election that just happened. Who do you think should be in "The Hall" that has yet to be inducted. My top two picks are

1. William "Dummy" Hoy
2. Carl Mays

There are a few others but I would like to see everyones thoughts on this.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
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I think a strong case can be made for Tony Oliva.
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:00 PM
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1 - Ron Santo
2 - Jimmy Ryan
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:06 PM
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Marvin Miller
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:20 PM
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Joe Jackson (A lifetime ban expires once you're dead, right?)
Mel Harder
Bert Blyleven
Tommy John
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:20 PM
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Sherry Magee

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  #7  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:23 PM
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His HOF plaque would read Sherry Magie.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYHighlanderFan View Post
Joe Jackson (A lifetime ban expires once you're dead, right?)
Mel Harder
Bert Blyleven
Tommy John
Hey, being someone that has never heard Mel Harder's name brought up in HOF discussions before, could you explain why you think he should be in? Seems like his numbers are overall unimpressive to be considered for the HOF.

Thanks - Rob
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:30 PM
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Gil Hodges
Roger Maris
Pete Rose
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:32 PM
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Without any question Pete Rose, and if not then many need to be removed. Which brings another question, who shouldn't be in the HOF.

Bert Blyleven, if he was on a good team would've won well over 300 games and with his strike out total shouldn't even be a discussion.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:35 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Harder

I think he deserves consideration.
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:39 PM
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Lefty O'Doul
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:53 PM
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James McGuire
Ed Ruelbach
and
Ron Santo!!!
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  #14  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:07 PM
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Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Bert Blyleven
Pete Rose
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:19 PM
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Default 19th Century

Players
Bob Caruthers
Jim McCormick
Tony Mullane
George Van Haltren

Executive
Chris Von Der Ahe
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  #16  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:22 PM
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My list is admittedly long and I'm sure I'm leaving some people off (and in no particular order)...

James Creighton (1st baseball superstar--although obviously no longevity)
Jimmy Ryan
Bill Lange (had he only played one or two more years)
Dave Orr (see Lange--but I still say Orr should be in)
Bill Dahlen
Wally Schang (how did Schalk get in over him?)
Mike Donlin
Deacon White
Tony Mullane
Jake Stenzel
Jim McCormick
Larry Doyle
George Van Haltren
Jack Stivetts
Lefty O'Doul
Carl Mays
Sherry Magee
Babe Herman
Ed McKean
Bob Caruthers
Jack Glasscock
Doc Cramer
Tip O'Neil
Pete Browning
Bobby Mathews
Dummy Hoy
Larry Corcoran
Bobby Veach
Jake Daubert
Hal Chase
Stuffy McInnis
George H. Burns
Fred Tenney


Borderline:
-Urban Shocker (b/c he died early during his career), Art Nehf & Warneke are essentially the same guy
-Wes Ferrell
-Ned Williamson
-Ezra Sutton
-Heinie Zimmerman
-Elmer Smith
-Leever & Phillippe (both are better than Willis)
-Babe Adams
-Riggs Stephenson
-Ken Williams
-Jack Fournier
-Ed Konetchy
-Joe Judge
-Charlie Grimm
-Jack Quinn
-Will White
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:26 PM
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I can't believe someone has a longer list than I do. Way to go Rhett!

I'm an "open the floodgates" guy when it comes to Cooperstown, so don't take my lengthy list too seriously, unless of course I get appointed to head up the Hall of Fame selection committee, then you'll need to prepare for a deluge:

Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso, Bert Blyleven, Barry Larkin, Roberto Alomar (I know he'll get in; the HOF voters just wanted to slap him around a bit in his first year), Lefty O'Doul, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Ron Santo, Marvin Miller, Dale Murphy, Jim Kaat, Tommy John, Jack Morris, Lee Smith, Luis Tiant, Maury Wills and my boyhood hero, Vada Pinson. If I left out anybody I think is deserving, I apologize ...

Last edited by Chris Counts; 01-06-2010 at 09:28 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:32 PM
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Bob Johnson
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2010, 09:54 PM
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Carl Mays, Bob Caruthers, and George Van Haltren. There are many others who are borderline and reasonably could go in. But these three clearly belong. By some accounts, Caruthers had the best winning percentage ever, though there seems to be some dispute about one or two wins or losses.
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2010, 10:15 PM
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Ron Santo and Lee Smith
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  #21  
Old 01-06-2010, 10:16 PM
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Gil Hodges
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2010, 10:21 PM
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Default hall

cravath


best,
barry
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2010, 10:31 PM
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Without Question:

Gil Hodges
Pete Rose

Many others mentioned previously also should be heavily considered.
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:15 PM
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Ed Reulbach
George Van Haltren
and I could accept Gil Hodges

If many more than that get in, the place needs to be renamed. As a kid, I could read My Greatest Day in Baseball, and the members of the Hall of Fame were really special, dominant, great, famous baseball players. As a voting writer, I'd be ashamed of having had a hand in putting some of the inductees of the past decade in with the likes of Honus Wagner, Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Christy Mathewson, and Grover Alexander... just plain ashamed.n

Last edited by FrankWakefield; 01-06-2010 at 11:16 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:23 PM
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Ron Santo !!
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:42 PM
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Man,you guys got 'em all!!For sure Pete Rose,also Hodges.
Frank,you are right.
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  #27  
Old 01-06-2010, 11:48 PM
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There are a few players listed in this thread from the 19th Century but I didn't see Harry Stovey or Bobby Mathews mentioned.

Stovey was a fantastic batsman he led the league in the following categories:

Slugging % - 3x
Runs - 4x
Total bases - 3x
Doubles - 1x
Triples - 4x
HR's - 5x
RBIs - 1x
SBs - 2x

Bobby Mathews had 297 lifetime wins - 3 more and he would already be in the HOF.
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:02 AM
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In somewhat chronological order:
Deacon White
George Gore
Harry Stovey
Bobby Caruthers
Cupid Childs
Bill Dahlen
Jimmy Sheckard (seriously, look him up)
Joe Jackson
Carl Mays
(I think the time period of about 1930-60 has been pretty much covered)
Ron Santo (heartbreaking omission)
Joe Torre (Ok so I'm giving him credit for his managing too, but he's close as a player)
Burt Blyleven
Jack Morris (Shouldn't you get extra credit for post-season excellence? Isn't a win in October worth more than a win in June?)
Alan Trammel
Tim Raines (Really, he should have been a 1st ballot inductee)
Barry Larkin
Will Clark
Mark McGwire (this is a big argument starter -- save it for another thread)
Robbie Alomar (Should have been 1st ballot)
Edgar Martinez (Think of him as a great specialist like Gossage or Sutter)

--------
Non-players:
Marvin Miller
Buck O'Neill
Bill James
Tony LaRussa & Bobby Cox (when eligible)
( I think that's everyone for now)
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  #29  
Old 01-07-2010, 02:50 AM
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Wow - people want Hal Chase and Carl Mays in the Hall of Fame??? A pair of deplorable scumbags, not just in personal life but directly in the game of baseball. If the early days of baseball had any more Hal Chases and Carl Mays-es, the game might never have made it past the 1920s.

If Carl Mays is in, then Eddie Cicotte ought to be a lock (of course we all know that can't happen). In their time, it seems to me that more people respected Cicotte than Carl Mays.

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  #30  
Old 01-07-2010, 04:43 AM
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I took another look at my list and I completely forgot Harry Stovey
-Rhett

Also, Hal Chase was admittedly a pretty rotten guy and I should have qualified my earlier statement w/ the fact that he is actually banned from baseball so he will never actually get in (unless they also induct Jackson and/or Eddie Cicotte)

Mays should be in though (as he was never banned, unlike the aforementioned players)
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  #31  
Old 01-07-2010, 05:46 AM
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Harry Stovey may have the best stats among players not in the Hall. A .321 career average, two seasons over .400, 744 stolen bases, and 119 home runs in an era when virtually nobody reached one hundred. He had less than 6000 at bats and only 1925 hits, so that may have held him back. Certainly much stronger stats than his contemporary Tommy McCarthy.
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  #32  
Old 01-07-2010, 06:21 AM
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Ross Barnes deserves consideraton.
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  #33  
Old 01-07-2010, 07:17 AM
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"Smokey Joe" Wood's name usually comes up in these types of discussions.
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  #34  
Old 01-07-2010, 07:35 AM
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Donnie Baseball.
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:30 AM
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I am glad that I am not alone in thinking Ron Santo should be in the HOF.

Ed Mathews before him and Mike Schmidt after, he was the best 3B offensively and defensively in the NL for a good 9-10 years. His statistics do nothing to weaken his case either, really not sure why he is so overlooked.
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:33 AM
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Billy Martin
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  #37  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:36 AM
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Grant Johnson and Tony Mullane from the 19th century

Joe wood and Dick Lundy
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  #38  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:48 AM
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When the HOF had its first vote in 1936, only 5 players got in -- but many more received votes. Hal Chase had the 25th most votes, ahead of 18 eventual HOFers including Three Finger Brown, Sam Crawford, John McGraw, Connie Mack, Bill Terry and Al Simmons. In the 1937 vote, Chase received more votes and moved up to 22nd on the list of most votes, ahead of 32 eventual HOFers. But for his criminal actions, Chase would have been a HOF lock. He was roundly recognized as the best first baseman of his time by not just the press but his peers as well.

Last edited by calvindog; 01-07-2010 at 08:48 AM.
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  #39  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:13 AM
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The biggest knock on Santo is his .277 batting average, which is actually quite high considering he played in the 1960s, when batting averages and ERA's dropped to some of the lowest levels ever. In addition to his great glove, he had an outstanding batting eye. And remarkably, he suffered from diabetes. After reading your post, Rob, I was looking at his stats and noticed he has a lifetime on base average of .362. To put that in perspective, that's the same OBA as Pie Traynor, who has a .320 lifetime batting average. If that alone isn't enough to push him over top, I don't know what is. I just wish the Hall of Fame voters cared enough to do a little research. I realize Santo wasn't part of this vote, but considering five guys left their ballots blank, and another two voted for Eric Karros, I think it's safe to say the voting process is pretty dysfunctional right now ...
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  #40  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:17 AM
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Roger Maris and Dale Murphy.
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  #41  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:33 AM
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Chris, I couldn't agree more. Plus David Segui and Pat Hentgen got a vote each, was that some kind of a joke?
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  #42  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:44 AM
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Rob,
It seems to me that a professional baseball writer who does not take his HoF vote seriously, ie.votes for David Segui, Pat Hentgen, Eric Karros, does not deserve a vote. It would be better to send in a blank ballot if you don't think anyone is deserving. The BBWAA vote is a privilege granted by the HoF, not a right. It can be taken away. Maybe that is something they should consider.
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  #43  
Old 01-07-2010, 10:11 AM
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I think it is a joke that Gil Hodges isn,t in.
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  #44  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default Indeed, he's a lock in the Hall of Infamy...just not the HOF

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
But for his criminal actions, Chase would have been a HOF lock. He was roundly recognized as the best first baseman of his time by not just the press but his peers as well.
I find it interesting, how the writers have always had this morals component to their voting. Not letting Chase in, not letting Mays in, making Alomar wait, etc.
There are a group of players that are all shoe-ins, if it weren't for either this "moral threshhold" or being banned, or both...their names have all been thrown around in this thread already...what an interesting HOF it would be if we could just admit them all based solely on their baseball accomplishments.
Add:
Rose
Jackson
Cicotte
Mays
Chase
Alomar
McGwire
Character aside, I would say, boy that group just got a whole lot better!
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  #45  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:20 AM
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Ken Boyer
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  #46  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:52 AM
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The two who voted for Karros should lose their voting priveleges.
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  #47  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:55 AM
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It is a travesty that Gil is not in the Hall of Fame. His stats are not that unworthy and he won 2 World Series rings. The World Series accomplishments alone should have put him over the top.
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  #48  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:55 AM
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Thurman Munson
Dwight Evans

Yes, maybe a little Sox fan bias here. Munson really should be in I always thought he was better than Fisk even if he did play for the Yankees.

Evans wasn't flashy at bat, but was a fantastic fielder but that rarely counts for HOF voting. At bat he wasn't all that bad either, he played in an era when 400HR was usually a sure thing, but fell a bit short He led the AL in HR and extra base hits from 1980-1989
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  #49  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
He was roundly recognized as the best first baseman of his time by not just the press but his peers as well.
Oh, I don't doubt Chase's skills for a second...and imagine how much better his fielding numbers would have been if he didn't take so many payoffs to make errors .

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  #50  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:51 PM
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Though more deserve it, at least the baseball HoF doesn't feel like they have to put six or eight guys in every year like the football HoF does!
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