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  #1  
Old 09-22-2022, 11:32 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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Default The Aaron Judge Effect

I remember the summer 0f '61 well when both Mantle and Maris were in a HR duel to catch the Babe when Mickey got injured. I am sure many have seen Billy Crystal's great movie which captures the whole drama.
Now in 2022 with Aaron Judge on the cusp of breaking Roger's record, it seems MLB is on fire and as popular as ever. The fact that Aaron has a shot at the triple crown only adds more spice and the Yanks playing the Red Sox this weekend has led to high drama across the nation
All this, I feel is good for the game and the hobby. Maris' RC card has seen a nice spike in the past month.
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2022, 12:55 PM
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I don't know how other people felt in 1998 but even to a then 13 year old it was fairly obvious something was off with McGwire and Sosa. I was not really a fan of that chase because it never once felt authentic.

This season feels completely different. Maybe not the same news cycle since Judge is on a level all his own and there's no competition between him and someone else. But this feels like a real race and it's the only time I think I've felt this way even though technically I've seen the record broken 4 times in my lifetime.

Last edited by packs; 09-22-2022 at 12:58 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:07 PM
RhodeyRhode RhodeyRhode is offline
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I disagree...Mcgwire and Sosa helped to revitalize a sport back then and made a less interested sport following the strike earlier in the decade, into a nationwide topic. Much like Judge is doing today.
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:09 PM
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That is what happened but I did not enjoy seeing two guys with obvious issues breaking the record. It didn't feel authentic. It felt like spectacle, which was popular, sure.

Maybe this is a better way of describing my feelings in 1998. You could watch a kid play a video game who was really good at the game, or you could watch a kid play a video game with Game Genie. Not really the same thing. Though perhaps equally entertaining to some people.

Last edited by packs; 09-22-2022 at 01:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:13 PM
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As a Yankees fan I am absolutely in love with Judge and his historic season. The single season AL record and the triple crown? Unreal. And if you've watched the Yankees season there have been plenty of games where it seems Judge is simply willing the Yankees to win. Hal better get his checkbook out!

As far as Maris & the value of his cards, IMHO he was the guy for so many years I feel his status is secure in the hobby. If his 61 HRs had been surpassed (for example) by Frank Robinson in 1966 I feel Maris would be more of a footnote. As is, I feel his cards will always be in demand.
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:16 PM
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^^^^ I agree with Packs. ^^^^

On a side note, it’s kind of cool to witness Albert Pujols’ assault on 700 HRs. Just one more to go with time running out. If he can do it, he’s in very limited company. Probably as great an achievement as Judge’s pursuit of “61”.

Last edited by perezfan; 09-22-2022 at 01:17 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-22-2022, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I don't know how other people felt in 1998 but even to a then 13 year old it was fairly obvious something was off with McGwire and Sosa. I was not really a fan of that chase because it never once felt authentic.

This season feels completely different. Maybe not the same news cycle since Judge is on a level all his own and there's no competition between him and someone else. But this feels like a real race and it's the only time I think I've felt this way even though technically I've seen the record broken 4 times in my lifetime.

I understand where you're coming from, even if I got wrapped up in it myself, way back then.

I may be remembering this wrong, but what I remember most about that era...is how FAR these guys were hitting their HR's. Especially McGwire.

Nobody hit them that far before, except maybe occasionally Mantle, nobody has hit them as far since. Judge is a huge, athletic, strong guy who hits the ball a ton, and almost all of his HR's are no doubters...but he doesn't hit them anywhere near as far as McGwire's longest dingers during his St. Louis heyday.
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2022, 02:54 PM
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Don’t forget that Maris broke the record in an expansion season. Other than 1961 he never hit more than 39 homers.
I guess steroids allow you to hit the ball farther.

Last edited by oldjudge; 09-22-2022 at 02:55 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2022, 02:58 PM
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Judge seems like a good guy so I'm rooting for him. Both he and Pujols have made an overall lackluster MLB season interesting in the end.

The other thing I find interesting is the lack of price explosion on Judge cards. I admit I haven't followed the pricing much. But a quick search of eBay shows very reasonably priced Judge RC cards. Usually, it seems that in the past there would be a huge uptick in prices. I wonder if it's because 61 isn't the record anymore. Still, he has a legit shot at a triple crown as well.

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  #10  
Old 09-22-2022, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanH3 View Post
Judge seems like a good guy so I'm rooting for him. Both he and Pujols have made an overall lackluster MLB season interesting in the end.

The other thing I find interesting is the lack of price explosion on Judge cards. I admit I haven't followed the pricing much. But a quick search of eBay shows very reasonably priced Judge RC cards. Usually, it seems that in the past there would be a huge uptick in prices. I wonder if it's because 61 isn't the record anymore. Still, he has a legit shot at a triple crown as well.


I think that aside from the huge number of cards out there, and the recent down tick in prices, there’s also the belief that he’s a late bloomer and a big guy with a big strike zone who has had a past history of big guy injuries, that may make several career counting stats unattainable for him. He may shine really bright for a short while, but is he more Albert Belle/Josh Hamilton/Juan Gonzalez then he is Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays or even Mike Trout?
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  #11  
Old 09-22-2022, 04:04 PM
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My prediction is he both ties and breaks the record against Boston. Seems only fitting.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2022, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
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Don’t forget that Maris broke the record in an expansion season. Other than 1961 he never hit more than 39 homers.
I guess steroids allow you to hit the ball farther.
Yes, but league-wide HR rates were only up a few percentage points in 1961 over the few years prior.

1958: 0.91 HR per team per game
1959: 0.91
1960: 0.86
1961: 0.95
1962: 0.93
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2022, 09:17 PM
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My guess is that is because the HR rate on the expansion teams pulled the average down.
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Old 09-22-2022, 09:59 PM
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Living in NY, it seems weird to me how little most people seem to care generally about the Judge saga. Yankee fans are ga ga of course, and many baseball fans are paying attention, but it doesn’t feel like everyone has stopped to pay attention. It’s weird. Was just in bar in penn station and people seemed more interested in a bad football game. Yes, when judge comes up there is a crowd watching. But its not the broad hysteria I sort of assumed it would be for such a historic record. Maybe it’s just a sign of the times. And this is coming from a massive fan of baseball in general.

Maybe a little of it is all the debate as to what the legitimate record is and what number we should be looking at.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 09-22-2022 at 10:05 PM.
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:10 PM
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For me, it's a neat moment in Yankees' history. I'm an Astros fan, so I watched the Astros' game. If Jose Altuve closes in on one of Bagwell's Astro records one day, I don't expect Yankees and Mets fans to be glued to the screen to see it live. When Judge ever starts to close in on 73, I will get an Apple watch to see it.
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  #16  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Living in NY, it seems weird to me how little most people seem to care generally about the Judge saga. Yankee fans are ga ga of course, and many baseball fans are paying attention, but it doesn’t feel like everyone has stopped to pay attention. It’s weird. Was just in bar in penn station and people seemed more interested in a bad football game. Yes, when judge comes up there is a crowd watching. But its not the broad hysteria I sort of assumed it would be for such a historic record. Maybe it’s just a sign of the times. And this is coming from a massive fan of baseball in general.

Maybe a little of it is all the debate as to what the legitimate record is and what number we should be looking at.
Judge is the honest number and should be celebrated as such.
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Living in NY, it seems weird to me how little most people seem to care generally about the Judge saga. Yankee fans are ga ga of course, and many baseball fans are paying attention, but it doesn’t feel like everyone has stopped to pay attention. It’s weird. Was just in bar in penn station and people seemed more interested in a bad football game. Yes, when judge comes up there is a crowd watching. But its not the broad hysteria I sort of assumed it would be for such a historic record. Maybe it’s just a sign of the times. And this is coming from a massive fan of baseball in general.

Maybe a little of it is all the debate as to what the legitimate record is and what number we should be looking at.
Some of that supposed lack of interest may be because he technically has not broken, or even really tied, any records, yet. PEDs or not, the official MLB record for homers in a season belongs to Bonds at 73. Not everyone is as big of a baseball purist when it comes to issues and questions with PEDs, but to the average person Judge isn't even within single digits of the record yet. Also, football is a lot more popular than it was in the past, and many have said/felt it has actually supplanted baseball as America's pastime.

Now, if Judge were sitting on 70 homers at this point, i think it more likely the interest and hysteria you were expecting would be in place.
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  #18  
Old 09-22-2022, 10:29 PM
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Still, a great season by Judge, and expect him to beat both Ruth's record within 154 games, and Maris' within 162 games.

Last edited by BobC; 09-22-2022 at 10:31 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-23-2022, 08:23 AM
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I disagree. He is chasing a record: the AL home run record. His company is Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. That gets my attention.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:36 AM
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I disagree. He is chasing a record: the AL home run record. His company is Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. That gets my attention.
I totally agree with you.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:55 AM
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Some of that supposed lack of interest may be because he technically has not broken, or even really tied, any records, yet. PEDs or not, the official MLB record for homers in a season belongs to Bonds at 73. Not everyone is as big of a baseball purist when it comes to issues and questions with PEDs, but to the average person Judge isn't even within single digits of the record yet. Also, football is a lot more popular than it was in the past, and many have said/felt it has actually supplanted baseball as America's pastime.

Now, if Judge were sitting on 70 homers at this point, i think it more likely the interest and hysteria you were expecting would be in place.
Completely agree on this.

I can see the excitement for Yanks fans, but honestly other than a passing interest during the day's sports highlights this has little impact on my day to day. I also think the comparison made earlier to a "Albert Belle/Josh Hamilton/Juan Gonzalez" type career for Judge is a strong one. He seems like a good guy and the comparison should not be considered a slight. I just think he will be a relative footnote long term for the game. However anyone can get into the "Hall of Nice Guys We Haven't Found Fault With Yet", so hell he's got as good of a chance as anyone on that list.
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2022, 08:57 AM
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^^^^ I agree with Packs. ^^^^

On a side note, it’s kind of cool to witness Albert Pujols’ assault on 700 HRs. Just one more to go with time running out. If he can do it, he’s in very limited company. Probably as great an achievement as Judge’s pursuit of “61”.
but wandering franklins and jayson domingos cards are worth more...PSA 10 1 of 1, 16 names. Maybe this Tony Vulvo kid is the next ty cobb? His rookie cards sell for more too. Maybe cobb doesnt pop and that's what all collectors want. Pop.

Too bad Pujols doesn't pop with 700 homers.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 09-23-2022 at 08:58 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2022, 09:53 AM
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Completely agree on this.

I can see the excitement for Yanks fans, but honestly other than a passing interest during the day's sports highlights this has little impact on my day to day. I also think the comparison made earlier to a "Albert Belle/Josh Hamilton/Juan Gonzalez" type career for Judge is a strong one. He seems like a good guy and the comparison should not be considered a slight. I just think he will be a relative footnote long term for the game. However anyone can get into the "Hall of Nice Guys We Haven't Found Fault With Yet", so hell he's got as good of a chance as anyone on that list.

What do you mean by footnote, though? I don't think Roger Maris is a footnote. If you're a serious baseball fan, you know his name and what he did and whose record he beat. If Judge hits 62 I think he'll occupy a similar space. Some people still think of Maris as the "true" record holder. When I think of footnotes I think of guys like Earl Webb, the all time single season doubles record holder.

Last edited by packs; 09-23-2022 at 11:04 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2022, 10:26 AM
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I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that MLB is as popular as ever, or even as popular as it was in 1998, but it's always fun to watch players pursuing hallowed numbers. I expect Judge will end up with 62-64 HRs for the season, but what's really going to be a nail-biter is the pursuit of the Triple Crown. And while none of this is a record per se, he's also likely to be the only player other than Ruth himself to ever lead the league by 20+ HRs. Pujols is on a trajectory to finish with 700 or 701 career HRs if they start him for the rest of the season. I'm rooting for both of those guys, but the actual MLB record of interest to me rests with Framber Valdez, currently sitting on 25 consecutive quality starts with a chance to tie deGrom and Gibson's MLB record tomorrow night and break it next week.

All of this while Shohei Ohtani is outperforming his historically significant 2021 MVP year and Justin Verlander is outperforming his own historically significant MVP season, well, it makes for quite a season for those of us with intersecting interests in baseball and statistics.
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Old 09-23-2022, 11:59 AM
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I disagree. He is chasing a record: the AL home run record. His company is Babe Ruth and Roger Maris. That gets my attention.
Yours......yes, but not the vast majority of people who don't ever think or realize there even is such a record just for the AL. Especially now with interleague play and all, many people don't really think of JUST the AL, or JUST the NL, they think of it as MLB and view the real record as 73.
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Old 09-23-2022, 11:59 AM
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Not trying to crush or downplay anyone's interests in those pursuing various records. But as one poster noted, he is interested as a SERIOUS fan/collector, and the truth be known (and I know this is going to be tough to swallow for a lot of people on a site like this), the majority of people out there are NOT anywhere as serious about baseball and such records as you all are. It isn't a good or bad thing, just what it is in reality.

Now if MLB had come out and declared that Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa were all definitively guilty of cheating through their alleged use of PEDs, and discredited and disallowed all their homeruns and records, THEN Judge would be going for the legitimate all-time record, AND the interest and excitement might be a lot more like what you were expecting. But MLB didn't do that, did they?

Last edited by BobC; 09-23-2022 at 12:23 PM.
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  #27  
Old 09-23-2022, 12:19 PM
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I don't watch baseball like I used to anymore for many reasons.....still love collecting the vintage stuff though - from my youth and before - cards, game used stuff, autos, etc.....

So - I'll probably be watching replays when Judge hits 61 and beyond...which I look forward to...

From my perspective though, Maris is no footnote....He still holds the 162 game record for most home runs....PERIOD....Mac, Sosa and Bonds were juicers....cheats....plain and simple....

I know many of you here will disagree but that's what makes us all different!

Good luck to Judge....He seems like a good guy....The Maris children should be proud that their Dad's 162 game schedule home run record lasted 61 years...

IMHO
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Old 09-23-2022, 12:24 PM
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I don't watch baseball like I used to anymore for many reasons.....still love collecting the vintage stuff though - from my youth and before - cards, game used stuff, autos, etc.....

So - I'll probably be watching replays when Judge hits 61 and beyond...which I look forward to...

From my perspective though, Maris is no footnote....He still holds the 162 game record for most home runs....PERIOD....Mac, Sosa and Bonds were juicers....cheats....plain and simple....

I know many of you here will disagree but that's what makes us all different!

Good luck to Judge....He seems like a good guy....The Maris children should be proud that their Dad's 162 game schedule home run record lasted 61 years...

IMHO
Well said!
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  #29  
Old 09-23-2022, 12:30 PM
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There have been a lot of articles and sports talk lately about what people view as the true record. It is a topic of conversation. I would say many casual fans do still view Maris as the record holder. Legitimate is a matter of opinion.

Last edited by packs; 09-23-2022 at 12:50 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-23-2022, 12:52 PM
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Reminds me a lot about when Drugged Earwig asserted that Hammerin Hank was the real home run king.

As a giants fan, this article always tickled my funny bone:

https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/pl...-king-ray-king
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Old 09-23-2022, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
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There have been a lot of articles and sports talk lately about what people view as the true record. It is a topic of conversation. I would say many casual fans do still view Maris as the record holder. Legitimate is a matter of opinion.

No one is arguing with you, but my responses were in regard to the posts about surprise being felt that there wasn't a lot more excitement and talk going on everywhere among fans and the public in general, in regard to Judge's achievement and going for such a record. There is not, and this is not, a debate about whether Bonds holds a "legitimate" record or not, it is an attempt to answer a question/comment posed about why more people may not be as excited about Judge's achievement than some others, and overall, displaying much less excitement and interest than they expected from the public in general.

The simple facts are that:

1. Not everyone is a serious fan and follows baseball as closely as others, so they truly don't care much, if at all, about what Judge is doing.

2. MLB still lists Bonds' 73 homers as the all-time single season record, so many people view that as the recognized record.

3. That someone would post saying they are surprised about the overall lack of excitement and talk surrounding Judge, shows that they have obviously underestimated the number of people that do fall into the categories I pointed out my first two fact points.

If you have any other, logical, intelligent, and/or common sensical points or ideas to otherwise explain why there may be less overall expected excitement and talk seen out in the general public surrounding Judge's achievement, I am happy to listen.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2022, 02:13 PM
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Even if you erase from your memory, Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa, and Gonzo and Ortiz, etal.... Giancarlo Stanton hit 59 in 2017 for the Marlins. I don't remember it being a big deal at all.

I think a Triple Crown would be cool, but it's not a daily must see like a hitting streak. Cabrera did it a while back and I bet Tigers fans loved it. I thought it was neat.
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Old 09-23-2022, 02:31 PM
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I commented after another poster referred to Maris being the record holder. I don't have any thoughts on your comments about waning popularity.

Last edited by packs; 09-23-2022 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-23-2022, 02:54 PM
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If you have any other, logical, intelligent, and/or common sensical points or ideas to otherwise explain why there may be less overall expected excitement and talk seen out in the general public surrounding Judge's achievement, I am happy to listen.
I'm not sure if I meet this standard, but I enjoy hearing myself talk, so here goes:

1) As much as it pains me to admit it, baseball is nowhere close to being as popular as back in the good old days. 50 years ago, there was baseball, and then a big Big BIG step down to #2. These days, you could reasonably argue that the NBA and the NFL are legit contenders, likely even surpassing MLB, particularly in the public consciousness. And that's before we even get to all of the other sports that are surging in popularity. Soccer. Tennis. Hockey? Pickleball??

2) There's a lot going on these days that is competing for attention. A short list:
a) Some war
b) Nuclear weapons, this is not a bluff.
c) An election in 6 weeks, on which the very fate of the universe rests. THE UNIVERSE!!!
d) Inflation
e) Interest rates
f) Stock market craziness
g) The pandemic is over
h) Something about the border
i) England has a new king

So you add it all up, and Judge's run is amazing for those of us paying attention. But for the rest of the world, it's on page 23, in small font, buried behind the latest thing that happened with the Kardashians. I'm not saying it's right. But that's just the way it is.
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Old 09-23-2022, 02:57 PM
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If I were to accept the proposal that the "true" record for 162 games is Roger Maris' 61, and Judge hits 62 this year, then I would expect everyone to accept Yordan Alvarez as the all-time Home Run King when he hits 63 next year. We all know Alvarez would not be considered the King in that scenario, which is why I won't think Judge is the all-time record holder if he surpasses 61.
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Old 09-23-2022, 03:09 PM
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There is a lot of craziness in the world right now and a lack of consumer confidence…..baseball and major league sports are the last thing on a lot of people’s minds right now…..as I said above, I don’t watch the game like I used to, but I do think there is good buzz over what Judge is doing right now and he’s a good guy and I think fans in general really like him - not just Yankees fans…you guys closer to the current game may truly feel the buzz is down and we all come at it from different perspectives…

Major League sports in general - specifically the big three - NBA, NFL and MLB have lost a lot of fans over the past few years…..due to their embracing of social issues - not getting political, but it’s a fact….those three have bent over backwards to political and social issues that I find just outright illogical….not the issues themselves, but how the Leagues react to players, businesses, sponsors, media and politicians….We just want to watch the game! …..an example was moving the All Star game out of Atlanta which made no sense to me….if you move the game from Atlanta for a certain issue, why not just eliminate the Braves as well?

The NHL has been the net gainer of fans the past few years…..and I see that trend continuing…..

Good luck Aaron on getting 61 and beyond…..I’ll be following even if I can’t sit down in front of the tube every time you get to the plate….
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Old 09-23-2022, 03:21 PM
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I truly don't believe professional sports have taken a hit from their stands on any issues. I think interest in professional sports has waned for the same reasons why golf course membership is dying, bowling alleys are becoming extinct, college football teams can't sell tickets like they used to, no one goes to movies like they used to, no one watches the grammys and academy awards like they used to, . . .on and on and on. Just read last week that Disney attendance is way down at one of the parks.

With the growth of life online there are just so many distractions and avenues to go down to amuse yourself. And people just aren't as social as they used to. When I was growing up, parents held parties every weekend where folks from the neighborhood would show up with meals and people would get drunk, have the occasional screaming match, etc. Today it seems are barely able to wave hello to their neighbors.

Different times and people have changed to.






Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyC View Post
There is a lot of craziness in the world right now and a lack of consumer confidence…..baseball and major league sports are the last thing on a lot of people’s minds right now…..as I said above, I don’t watch the game like I used to, but I do think there is good buzz over what Judge is doing right now and he’s a good guy and I think fans in general really like him - not just Yankees fans…you guys closer to the current game may truly feel the buzz is down and we all come at it from different perspectives…

Major League sports in general - specifically the big three - NBA, NFL and MLB have lost a lot of fans over the past few years…..due to their embracing of social issues - not getting political, but it’s a fact….those three have bent over backwards to political and social issues that I find just outright illogical….not the issues themselves, but how the Leagues react to players, businesses, sponsors, media and politicians….an example was moving the All Star game out of Atlanta which made no sense to me….if you move the game from Atlanta for a certain issue, why not just eliminate the Braves as well?

The NHL has been the net gainer of fans the past few years…..and I see that trend continuing…..

Good luck Aaron on getting 61 and beyond…..I’ll be following even if I can’t sit down in front of the tube every time you get to the plate….

Last edited by Snapolit1; 09-23-2022 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:04 PM
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I really enjoyed the game last night, even though I am a true Red Sox fan and thought maybe they would pull it off. Hats off to the Yankees for playing like a team with so much attention added - looking forward to the weekend games!

Jimmy
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:10 PM
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Tonight's Yankees game is not on t.v. You'll need to have an apple+ subscription, or sign up for a free trial to see it via streaming. It's why I made the apple watch joke.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:10 PM
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Red Sox - Yankees …..doesn’t get much better than that…..

The real question is….how much is Judge going to make next year!?!?!
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
I truly don't believe professional sports have taken a hit from their stands on any issues. I think interest in professional sports has waned for the same reasons why golf course membership is dying, bowling alleys are becoming extinct, college football teams can't sell tickets like they used to, no one goes to movies like they used to, no one watches the grammys and academy awards like they used to, . . .on and on and on. Just read last week that Disney attendance is way down at one of the parks.

With the growth of life online there are just so many distractions and avenues to go down to amuse yourself. And people just aren't as social as they used to. When I was growing up, parents held parties every weekend where folks from the neighborhood would show up with meals and people would get drunk, have the occasional screaming match, etc. Today it seems are barely able to wave hello to their neighbors.

Different times and people have changed to.

Agree. In my circle of people and crotchety old men in my family, including some very close relatives......the ones complaining about sports losing fans because of stances around social issues and sticking their nose into "politics", are the same crotchety old men who are the first to bring up politics at the dinner table in the first place.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
No one is arguing with you, but my responses were in regard to the posts about surprise being felt that there wasn't a lot more excitement and talk going on everywhere among fans and the public in general, in regard to Judge's achievement and going for such a record. There is not, and this is not, a debate about whether Bonds holds a "legitimate" record or not, it is an attempt to answer a question/comment posed about why more people may not be as excited about Judge's achievement than some others, and overall, displaying much less excitement and interest than they expected from the public in general.

The simple facts are that:

1. Not everyone is a serious fan and follows baseball as closely as others, so they truly don't care much, if at all, about what Judge is doing.

2. MLB still lists Bonds' 73 homers as the all-time single season record, so many people view that as the recognized record.

3. That someone would post saying they are surprised about the overall lack of excitement and talk surrounding Judge, shows that they have obviously underestimated the number of people that do fall into the categories I pointed out my first two fact points.

If you have any other, logical, intelligent, and/or common sensical points or ideas to otherwise explain why there may be less overall expected excitement and talk seen out in the general public surrounding Judge's achievement, I am happy to listen.

When Maris hit his 61 hrs, he was battling Mantle for the title most of the season. The interest was there because there were two players in contention.
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  #43  
Old 09-23-2022, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
What do you mean by footnote, though? I don't think Roger Maris is a footnote. If you're a serious baseball fan, you know his name and what he did and whose record he beat. If Judge hits 62 I think he'll occupy a similar space. Some people still think of Maris as the "true" record holder. When I think of footnotes I think of guys like Earl Webb, the all time single season doubles record holder.
Maris held the record, 62 will not be the record and will be a footnote. It will have no mention in any record book (other than Yankees team records) and no ball will sit in the Hall.

As to anyone going on the notion of the game as some platonic ideal existing before the big bad performance enhancers is patently false and the reason why the HOF is a joke. Today's players are more than likely the cleanest in history with the tightest rules but you can make a salient argument that Tommy john surgery or even Lazik is a performance enhancer not had by previous generations so that beat will go on forever.

I can pretend that Willie Mays and Mantle did not take amphetamines (Mantle is an excellent example because the reason he was out of the race in 61' was a botched shot from a known doctor giving cocktails of speed and steroids), but that would be ignoring facts. I can pretend the deadball pitching records were not exacerbated by a legal spitball and a high mound. I can pretend that the first record of attempted steroid use was not by a HOF member in 1889. I can pretend that Lyle Alzado was not stacking steroids in college in 1967 and I am supposed to believe that something that easy to find was untouched in the major leagues even while legal until the mid-80's. I can pretend a lot, but that's just sitting in a bar and ignoring what really happened and just accept that life goes on.

We can't erase history any more and need to just move on. No matter what, the record is not 61 in any book. It is a great season for Judge and I will give him that for sure, but not historic.
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Last edited by JustinD; 09-23-2022 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:35 PM
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It's the AL record.
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  #45  
Old 09-23-2022, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raulus View Post
I'm not sure if I meet this standard, but I enjoy hearing myself talk, so here goes:

1) As much as it pains me to admit it, baseball is nowhere close to being as popular as back in the good old days. 50 years ago, there was baseball, and then a big Big BIG step down to #2. These days, you could reasonably argue that the NBA and the NFL are legit contenders, likely even surpassing MLB, particularly in the public consciousness. And that's before we even get to all of the other sports that are surging in popularity. Soccer. Tennis. Hockey? Pickleball??

2) There's a lot going on these days that is competing for attention. A short list:
a) Some war
b) Nuclear weapons, this is not a bluff.
c) An election in 6 weeks, on which the very fate of the universe rests. THE UNIVERSE!!!
d) Inflation
e) Interest rates
f) Stock market craziness
g) The pandemic is over
h) Something about the border
i) England has a new king

So you add it all up, and Judge's run is amazing for those of us paying attention. But for the rest of the world, it's on page 23, in small font, buried behind the latest thing that happened with the Kardashians. I'm not saying it's right. But that's just the way it is.

LOL

All good Nicolo!

I get accused of typing and saying too much all the time, so was trying to keep my comments and reasons as short as possible. Was actually asking that as more or less a rhetorical question of those who seemed surprised by the lack of interest in Judge's feat. All additional great responses and reasons though.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
It's the AL record.
ok, I stand corrected, It will go in the books for that reason.

Apologies for that omission.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
It's the AL record.
And I'm all for that being a thing, although I'm not sure that it's all that meaningful in the modern game.

But sometimes, we have some silly stats/records out there. Highest batting average against left handed pitchers with last names starting with V under a corn moon comes to mind as one that I'm sure we'll see in the near future.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raulus View Post
And I'm all for that being a thing, although I'm not sure that it's all that meaningful in the modern game.

But sometimes, we have some silly stats/records out there. Highest batting average against left handed pitchers with last names starting with V under a corn moon comes to mind as one that I'm sure we'll see in the near future.
I'll have to keep my fingers crossed for Verlander to still be playing in 2025.
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:03 PM
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I mean, everybody has a different acceptance level for certain things. I don't think the AL HR record is exactly some marginalized new age stat, brought into play recently by the Sybermetric nerds.

....and I don't take very seriously Cy Youngs and Jack Chesbro's pitching wins stats, or Hugh Nichols single season stolen base record either.

I'm a Yankee fan, and I'm not going to start spouting that Judge is the single season king...but I do think it is very ground-breaking what he is doing...especially in a season when offense and HR's among his peers, is traditionally down.
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:08 PM
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Turns out I was wrong about it being news.

WSJ has this headline in yesterday's paper:

Aaron Judge Courts Home-Run History
The likable Yankee slugger chases baseball’s ‘clean’ record.

The last paragraph is good fun:

As Mr. Judge chases history and the good feelings spread, I can’t help but wish that my father were here to see it all. He was no Yankee fan, and he wasn’t shy about voicing his disgust with today’s “overpaid prima donnas.” His heroes all had off-season jobs and knew how to bunt. He would have delighted in Mr. Judge’s run at the record.
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