NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-02-2022, 01:56 PM
55koufax 55koufax is offline
ja.mes na.higian
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 150
Default "No Qualifiers" dis-allowed on PSA subs

Anyone else getting this feedback from PSA? Apparently there is a "moratorium" on specifying No Qualifiers on a PSA submission these days?

What could possibly be the reason?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-02-2022, 02:20 PM
CardPadre CardPadre is online now
Will.i.am St@dy
member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Diego/Albuquerque
Posts: 149
Default

Here's the whole story....
https://blog.psacard.com/2021/06/24/...lifier-policy/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:18 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,505
Default

That is interesting. This pretty much sums it up if you don't want to follow the link.

The qualifiers will be used infrequently and at the discretion of the grading staff when they feel it’s in the card’s best interest to apply a qualifier.

My opinion is qualifiers are the stupidest thing in grading by a county mile.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:18 PM
darwinbulldog's Avatar
darwinbulldog darwinbulldog is offline
Glenn
Glen.n Sch.ey-d
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CardPadre View Post
I think this line is adorable. "The qualifiers will be used infrequently and at the discretion of the grading staff when they feel it’s in the card’s best interest to apply a qualifier."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:20 PM
bobbyw8469's Avatar
bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,414
Default

I think qualifiers are great. If I have an outstanding card that some kid marked up with a pencil, I rather it be 8 (MK) than a PSA 2. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:29 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,507
Default

Getting back to buy the card, not the flip.

Shouldn't the grade of a card reflect the standards that are published by the TPG? Oh yeah, qualifiers... sheesh. Let's just allow the TPGs to not mean what is published by adding little letters to the flip.
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:34 PM
ledsters's Avatar
ledsters ledsters is online now
Kevin
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 518
Default

I think “MK” qualifiers are needed by all grading companies. I’ve bought a few cards graded by SGC in the past, where you cannot see the pen mark on the front or back of the card, because the ink or pencil lead has faded away. The indentation of the writing is there, but, you can’t see it in the scan. When I got the cards in the mail and saw the writing evidence, I was not happy.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-02-2022, 03:54 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 8,274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
I think this line is adorable. "The qualifiers will be used infrequently and at the discretion of the grading staff when they feel it’s in the card’s best interest to apply a qualifier."
That's great. If you are disappointed by the grade you can at least be glad it was in the card's best interest
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-02-2022, 04:04 PM
butchie_t butchie_t is online now
Butch T.
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Nevada
Posts: 877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darwinbulldog View Post
I think this line is adorable. "The qualifiers will be used infrequently and at the discretion of the grading staff when they feel it’s in the card’s best interest to apply a qualifier."
A noble cause to have the cards best interest in mind as they grade it. Don't want hurt the cards fee-fee's
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets.

Senators and Frank Howard fan.

I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO.

Last edited by butchie_t; 12-02-2022 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-02-2022, 04:07 PM
Vintagedeputy's Avatar
Vintagedeputy Vintagedeputy is offline
Jim Reynolds
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Glen Allen, Va.
Posts: 335
Default

“Instead of qualifiers, all cards will be issued a participation trophy because they tried”.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-02-2022, 04:09 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is offline
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,620
Default

Allow me to post a perfect example showing how much BS this move by PSA is.

When Bobby's group sub was submitted in 2021, qualifiers were the order of the day. If you didn't want them, you could choose "no qualifiers" and all was peachy, but if you had no problem with them (as I do) they would be applied when necessary. Then a funny thing happened. While PSA held this sub for ransom for a year and a half, they suddenly decided to CHANGE THE RULES OF THE GAME and leave us in the lurch.

For a moment, let's all forget that every time we say what number a card will receive, we are wrong...

I sent in this sharp cornered 1966 Topps #561 Choo Choo Coleman high number, because it is absolutely sweet, but off-centered. I fully expected and wanted it to get a PSA 8 OC (again, assume the grade guessing is correct), but in the interim PSA eliminated qualifiers, so it came back downgraded to a straight PSA 6. And here's the problem. No one will say, "Man, that card is real nice, probably an 8 that got a 6 due to its centering." Nope!! The thought will be, "Gee, that card is a 6 AND it is ALSO off-centered, so it's really nothing but a PSA 4."

That, my friends, is a screw job!!!

1966choochoo561PSA6.jpg
__________________
Take a look at my funny Baseball Cards T-Shirts:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=320524

Interested in trading? Check out my bucket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel

Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s.

Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-02-2022, 04:21 PM
GasHouseGang's Avatar
GasHouseGang GasHouseGang is online now
David M.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S. California
Posts: 2,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
And here's the problem. No one will say, "Man, that card is real nice, probably an 8 that got a 6 due to its centering. "Nope!! The thought will be, "Gee, that card is a 6 AND it is ALSO off-centered, so it's really nothing but a PSA 4."

That, my friends, is a screw job!!!
I never thought of that issue. Good point.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-02-2022, 05:53 PM
puckpaul puckpaul is offline
P.aul Orl,in
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 487
Default

My favorite PSA 8 (OC) card! I don’t know what is the right way to label it. Sure looks like an 8 to me, and not terribly off center (70/30 vs 75/25 top/bottom?). The OC label bothers me a little. But it looks a lot better than a 6.

No idea how the card feels about it!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F88F207B-CCE7-4829-9310-D2A4812E4ADA.jpg (172.3 KB, 305 views)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-02-2022, 08:29 PM
Snowman's Avatar
Snowman Snowman is offline
+j +R@!|
Tra,vis Tr,ail
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,154
Default

I hate qualifiers on slabs. There is no such thing as a "9 (OC)" or an "8 (MC)" to me. That's nonsense. Why not a PSA 10 (BTC) for "but the corners"? If a card was cut wrong, then it is not a high-grade card. And what's with the (PD) qualifier? Seriously? ... Slabbing a card that you can't even make out the image from due to registration being off by 1/4" as a "PSA 9 (PD)" is clearly nonsense. Nobody cares if the corners are nice if they can't even make out who the player is supposed to be.

PSA is the worst...
__________________
I'm a data scientist who works on problems that are very similar to the problem of "AI" card grading. Here are some links to some of my thoughts on the topic.

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...35#post2132535

https://net54baseball.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=46
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-02-2022, 09:34 PM
Lorewalker's Avatar
Lorewalker Lorewalker is offline
Chase
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 984
Default

This thread might end up being like the one on defining what a rookie card is or what is the best way to end an auction.

One thing is 100% clear in the hobby. We do not all agree on every point or every system. It is great that we have choices. And it is great that we come here to chat about those points of view.

As for the qualifiers I never minded them. If PSA did away with them or decides they want to do what is in the best interest of the card now...AWESOME!!!! I think they have a place in the hobby but I have always made adjustments for grading services that did not use them.

Bottom line for me is that I never have bought a card based on the label. And I never will. I decide for myself if the appearance is acceptable all things considered.
__________________
( h @ $ e A n + l e y
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-02-2022, 09:51 PM
Tabe's Avatar
Tabe Tabe is offline
Chris
Chr.is Ta.bar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,338
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
I hate qualifiers on slabs. There is no such thing as a "9 (OC)" or an "8 (MC)" to me. That's nonsense. Why not a PSA 10 (BTC) for "but the corners"? If a card was cut wrong, then it is not a high-grade card. And what's with the (PD) qualifier? Seriously? ... Slabbing a card that you can't even make out the image from due to registration being off by 1/4" as a "PSA 9 (PD)" is clearly nonsense. Nobody cares if the corners are nice if they can't even make out who the player is supposed to be.

PSA is the worst...
Yeah, I've need never quite understood them either, for the exact same reason.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-02-2022, 11:10 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is online now
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledsters View Post
I think “MK” qualifiers are needed by all grading companies. I’ve bought a few cards graded by SGC in the past, where you cannot see the pen mark on the front or back of the card, because the ink or pencil lead has faded away. The indentation of the writing is there, but, you can’t see it in the scan. When I got the cards in the mail and saw the writing evidence, I was not happy.
I bought a PSA/DNA Rogers Hornsby cut signature with the worst description that left out the fact that other signatures had been erased. I thought it was going to be a centerpiece of my collection. It showed up and and those ghost signatures bothered me immediately. I thought I'd get over it. A year later I sold it. The MK qualifier should be mandatory.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-02-2022, 11:17 PM
Snowman's Avatar
Snowman Snowman is offline
+j +R@!|
Tra,vis Tr,ail
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
I bought a PSA/DNA Rogers Hornsby cut signature with the worst description that left out the fact that other signatures had been erased. I thought it was going to be a centerpiece of my collection. It showed up and and those ghost signatures bothered me immediately. I thought I'd get over it. A year later I sold it. The MK qualifier should be mandatory.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
At that point, shouldn't it just be considered altered though?
__________________
I'm a data scientist who works on problems that are very similar to the problem of "AI" card grading. Here are some links to some of my thoughts on the topic.

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...35#post2132535

https://net54baseball.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=46
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-02-2022, 11:30 PM
Snowman's Avatar
Snowman Snowman is offline
+j +R@!|
Tra,vis Tr,ail
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 1,154
Default

One of the challenges from the TPG perspective is that the way cards have transacted over time has shifted dramatically. In the early days of PSA, most cards were still transacted in person at shows. There were major auction houses for high end stuff, but as a percentage of volume is concerned, the majority transacted in person. But now we live in a world where most transactions occur online where people upload 2D scans at best, and crappy photos at odd angles at worst. Flaws are easily hidden, and TPGs do the hobby a disservice by not calling out those flaws either on the flip or on the website when looking up the cert. I'd like to see PSA put things like creases, wrinkles, pen markings, and pinholes on their website when you look up a card's cert. It would require very little additional effort on their part to include this information. Especially with cards that are submitted at the Express level or higher. It's ridiculous that you can have a 52 Mantle in an Authentic holder and not even know what's "wrong" with it.
__________________
I'm a data scientist who works on problems that are very similar to the problem of "AI" card grading. Here are some links to some of my thoughts on the topic.

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...35#post2132535

https://net54baseball.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=46
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-03-2022, 01:10 AM
glynparson's Avatar
glynparson glynparson is online now
Glyn Parson
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Blandon PA
Posts: 2,110
Default Lol

This is how it always should have been and that Coleman wouldn’t have been an 8 oc in 2021. That looks like a 6 for at least the last 15-20 years. And I used to have plenty of mid grade 60s high numbers in that period.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-03-2022, 03:49 AM
refz's Avatar
refz refz is online now
Danny Gr|mes
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Waterbury, Conn.
Posts: 404
Default

9oc
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 10031198-50C3-48E8-89F9-94EC69CDAD4F.jpg (197.0 KB, 179 views)
__________________
Successful Transactions:
Leon, Ted Z, Calvindog, milkit1, thromdog, dougscats, Brian Van Horn, nicedocter, greenmonster66, megalimey, G1911
(I’m sure I’m missing some quality members)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-03-2022, 04:41 AM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is offline
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,620
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glynparson View Post
This is how it always should have been and that Coleman wouldn’t have been an 8 oc in 2021. That looks like a 6 for at least the last 15-20 years. And I used to have plenty of mid grade 60s high numbers in that period.
Nope.
__________________
Take a look at my funny Baseball Cards T-Shirts:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=320524

Interested in trading? Check out my bucket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel

Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s.

Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:10 AM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman View Post

..you can't even make out the image from due to registration being off by 1/4"...
Oddly enough, I really like cards like that. Not the slightly misaligned, somewhat out of focus ones; I like cards where the registration is wildly off. I wish the grading companies had a PFE (Perfect For Eric) qualifier.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1956-Topps-340-Mickey-McDermott-(Front)-Offset.jpg (179.5 KB, 143 views)
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (127/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (183/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:22 AM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Oddly enough, I really like cards like that. Not the slightly misaligned, somewhat out of focus ones; I like cards where the registration is wildly off. I wish the grading companies had a PFE (Perfect For Eric) qualifier.
Nice card, I like the ones with the bigger print offset also. Hate the ones that are slightly off.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aaron.jpg (123.5 KB, 143 views)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:28 AM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,112
Default

A couple thoughts:

I like having sub-grades on the flip. It's not a perfect way to convey information; however, it tells me much more than a single grade. If a card is graded a 6, why did it get that grade? If it has a low sub-grade for centering and 9+ for corners/edges/surface, that tells me a whole lot more.

In an alternate reality, imagine centering didn't factor into the final grade at all. Think about it. We can immediately see how well (or poorly) a card is centered. It doesn't matter if we're at a card show with less-than-optimal lighting. It doesn't matter (for the most part) if an eBay photo is a bit blurry, taken at a slight angle, or color-enhanced. If we can read the flip, we can see the centering. Perhaps the grading companies should focus on things we might easily miss while at a show or shopping online.

Nobody enjoys getting a card one day and then later discovering some hard-to-detect flaw. "Damn, I didn't see that when I bought the card" is something nearly all of us have said. It rarely, if ever, applies to the centering.
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (127/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (183/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:31 AM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Nice card, I like the ones with the bigger print offset also. Hate the ones that are slightly off.
That Aaron is perfect. Awesome card.
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (127/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (183/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-03-2022, 05:13 PM
kailes2872's Avatar
kailes2872 kailes2872 is offline
Kev1n @1les
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pittsburgh Area
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Oddly enough, I really like cards like that. Not the slightly misaligned, somewhat out of focus ones; I like cards where the registration is wildly off. I wish the grading companies had a PFE (Perfect For Eric) qualifier.
I bet that card looks awesome with 3-D glasses!
__________________
2023 Collecting Goals:

53-55 Red Mans Complete Set

Last edited by kailes2872; 12-03-2022 at 05:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
T206 Old Mill "Single Factory Overprint" & Cobb "Red Hindu" & "Uzit Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 04-14-2009 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 PM.


ebay GSB