BST Section: Has priceless become the norm rather than the exception?

[bcbgcbrcb]

This is just my view on something that has been bothering me for quite some time now. Of course, the easy response is “if it bothers you so much, don’t look at it”. It seems to have gotten to the point where board members list more stuff for sale on Net54 with no price given and simply stating fielding offers. In this manner, the seller tries to ensure that they are not leaving a single dollar on the table while taking zero risk of auctioning the item, which might maximize their return or might also leave them with a huge disappointment. Whenever I come across a listing like this, I simply move on as I do not support this type of activity. Over the years, this was always frowned upon by most board members but seems to have become the new norm these days.

Thoughts?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I don't bother with it, either. Same goes at shows. If you refuse to price your items, I'm moving on. That's the least you can do as the seller. Hate to break it to you, but it's your job.

If it's somebody who truly can't determine a price due to being outside of the hobby, let's say, then that's a much more understandable situation. But usually, it's exactly what Phil describes above. No, thanks.

[bnorth]

In the BST section I usually just pass also depending on who the seller is. I have got some great stuff that was listed without a price. Usually, especially with one seller they want WAAAAY more than you can buy from pretty much anyplace else so I never even click on anything they have for sale now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What's the issue? Either make an offer, or don't.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's the issue? Either make an offer, or don't.

I guess everyone wants someone else to start the bidding.

Plus we all want to reserve the right to be incensed that the other party is irrationally exuberant with their expectations around price.

[Kutcher55]

Good gosh, Peter. You always need to be the contrarian don’t you? And you’re almost always wrong as you are in this case. So annoying.

Anyway, yes a seller should price their cards and stop fishing for offers. Same for dealers. I just avoid them. Agree with the OP.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And when people do price their cards, people just bitch they're pricing them too high.

Not contrarian at all. IMO a seller can do what they want, if it doesn't work for you, move on. Don't see why they owe it to anyone to put a price if they prefer to solicit offers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Good gosh, Peter. You always need to be the contrarian don’t you? And you’re almost always wrong as you are in this case. So annoying.

Anyway, yes a seller should price their cards and stop fishing for offers. Same for dealers. I just avoid them. Agree with the OP.

Yeah that's a fair statement, always contrarian. Right dude. And I am sure in your infinite wisdom you're competent to decide who's right and wrong in matters of opinion. Give me a break.

[brianp-beme]

I have four lots listed in the BST S1.00 auction section. In the description I indicated that the starting bid is $1.00. Should I have left the $1.00 starting info out of the description with the hope someone would bid with the mistaken belief that my 1962 Post Cereal card lots actually had a $100 opening bid?

Brian (always looking for response angles within a perfectly round circle)

[Touch'EmAll]

Price sticker attached, no price sticker, a high BIN price, a .99 starting bid - I figure I am willing to pay what I am willing to pay. Who knows, if you start the process yourself instead of act on a price sticker, you may get what you want for less than you thought.

Send them an offer, ask for a price and then possibly negotiate, put in your max bid and let it ride. Bottom line I am willing to pay up to a certain amount.

If you really want the card, why does it matter so much how the negotiation goes - you first, them first ? Just do it. Or, move on and walk away and pass on a card you would really like. That's ok too.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And when people do price their cards, people just bitch they're pricing them too high.

Not contrarian at all. IMO a seller can do what they want, if it doesn't work for you, move on. Don't see why they owe it to anyone to put a price if they prefer to solicit offers.

That is true but at least you don't have to waste your time messaging them to find out they want way more than just buying it elsewhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is true but at least you don't have to waste your time messaging them to find out they want way more than just buying it elsewhere.

Nobody's making you waste your time. If you think that's the likely outcome, just move on. I am not seeing the problem, much less the moral imperative of listing a price. Then again, I'm an annoying contrarian who is almost always wrong, apparently.

[Carter08]

Sellers can do what they want but have to agree the approach strikes me as lame.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If I list a card on ebay at a prohibitive BIN but with a best offer option, isn't that essentially the same thing? Do people have some moral issue with that?

[G1911]

If it is the norm as the OP says, then isn’t the OP’s opinion the one that is contrarian?

As both sides have been taken already, which opinion would render me a conformist to agree with? Which a contrarian? Is there any moral high ground available to claim?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

If it is the norm as the OP says, then isn’t the OP’s opinion the one that is contrarian?

As both sides have been taken already, which opinion would render me a conformist to agree with? Which a contrarian? Is there any moral high ground available to claim?

I think Jason has already claimed it, so no.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I list a card on ebay at a prohibitive BIN but with a best offer option, isn't that essentially the same thing? Do people have some moral issue with that?

There do seem to be plenty of complaints about this approach utilized by sellers. Not sure that it’s a moral issue so much as merely irritating.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think Jason has already claimed it, so no.

Dang, I was hoping for some easy virtue space to plant my flag in and claim.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody's making you waste your time. If you think that's the likely outcome, just move on. I am not seeing the problem, much less the moral imperative of listing a price. Then again, I'm an annoying contrarian who is almost always wrong, apparently.

I have bought a lot of cards on here over the years so with sellers that have been on here for a while you can lean who messaging is a waste of time or someone that will work with you. LOL, even IF you are almost always wrong I still like you.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I list a card on ebay at a prohibitive BIN but with a best offer option, isn't that essentially the same thing? Do people have some moral issue with that?

Not really because it is just sending a number that takes a few seconds. I do not add notes or negotiate. I just send one offer and I get the card or don't.

Originally Posted by G1911

If it is the norm as the OP says, then isn’t the OP’s opinion the one that is contrarian?

As both sides have been taken already, which opinion would render me a conformist to agree with? Which a contrarian? Is there any moral high ground available to claim?

Not really just a bunch of old guys complaining.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Dang, I was hoping for some easy virtue space to plant my flag in and claim.

Sorry. And I've already claimed the contrarian, always wrong ground so no room there either.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sorry. And I've already claimed the contrarian, always wrong ground so no room there either.

If I am not right and am not wrong and there is no moral or immoral of any kind for me, do I even exist? If you are always wrong but I know from other threads that I am always wrong but we always disagree, what really is? If I know that I am always wrong, I must know that I am for I must be to be wrong, but if I now cannot be right nor wrong is there really anything making me be anymore? I am going to have a full fledged identity crisis until we have a thread about favorite T206 colors to ground me.

[timn1]

I think you have arrived at the heart of the matter!

Seems to me a lot of grumbling on all sides about basically nothing....

Originally Posted by G1911

If it is the norm as the OP says, then isn’t the OP’s opinion the one that is contrarian?

As both sides have been taken already, which opinion would render me a conformist to agree with? Which a contrarian? Is there any moral high ground available to claim?

[frankbmd]

I will add my grumble, but will only reveal it for the best offer.

[Fred]

I'm usually a hard pass on most BST items because the prices are a bit "optimistic" from a sellers stand point. I did recently purchase a card that was priced right, but that's the exception rather than the rule. I check it daily because every once in a while, something shows up that I'd like to have (at a reasonable price). But again, not that often any more.

I've made a few trades that started on the BST. The toughest part is having two parties that have a clue about card values and neither needing to feel they have to come out ahead. The way I see it, if I'm on the "under" side of a trade, then it's because it was my choice and I did so because I wanted to add something to my collection that I'd otherwise have to pay for. I like trading, it used to be a fun part of the hobby many years ago.

The BST isn't dead. You just have to be patient and wade through a lot of stuff that is more than optimistically priced.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm usually a hard pass on most BST items because the prices are a bit "optimistic" from a sellers stand point. I did recently purchase a card that was priced right, but that's the exception rather than the rule. I check it daily because every once in a while, something shows up that I'd like to have (at a reasonable price). But again, not that often any more.

I've made a few trades that started on the BST. The toughest part is having two parties that have a clue about card values and neither needing to feel they have to come out ahead. The way I see it, if I'm on the "under" side of a trade, then it's because it was my choice and I did so because I wanted to add something to my collection that I'd otherwise have to pay for. I like trading, it used to be a fun part of the hobby many years ago.

The BST isn't dead. You just have to be patient and wade through a lot of stuff that is more than optimistically priced.

Not at all directed against Fred, but proving my point that people complain when the seller doesn't list a price, and most of the time when they do.

[Snapolit1]

Agree with OP.

No price in most cases means “I’m not looking for a market price transaction ….. I am looking for someone uninformed to overpay me dramatically ….”

I generally skip those. Can’t think of many commercial transactions where someone refuses to name the selling price.

Only exception maybe an ultra rare item with no discernible market.

Just another example of this market where buyers and sellers are often operating from different realities. “I don’t want the 2024 price dammit …. I want the March 2021 price!!”

[rand1com]

Any item I am interested in buying, I know what I will pay so making an offer without an asking price is not an issue.

I have done it a few times on here and bought the item at my offer. Did I pay more than I could have gotten the item for? Maybe. But I got it at the price I was willing to pay.

Same as putting in a ceiling bid in an auction. If I win at my high bid, I got it for a price I was satisfied with. Would I prefer to get it for less, of course?

[eliotdeutsch]

Maybe I’m contrarian too.

But only a buyer looking to “pick someone off” would get so upset about a listing without a price …

[CW]

I just clicked on the first 15 or so "for sale" threads in the most popular BST section (pre-war), and the great majority did have asking prices.

It could just be a case of negativity bias, where the "make an offer" for sale BST threads are not really that common, but when Phil and others come across them it strikes a nerve so they remember it, and they appear more frequent then they actually are.

Just a theory.

It also seems that the majority of the priceless BST threads are for very rare or very big money cards, or a combo of the 2 (such as a T206 Plank), where the comps are infrequent so the seller simply does not want to price it too low and would rather field offers.

[Carter08]

My house, car, and baseball cards are all for sale. Open to offers.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not at all directed against Fred, but proving my point that people complain when the seller doesn't list a price, and most of the time when they do.

I look at it my comments about the pricing on the BST as an observation rather than a complaint. The comment wasn't directed to "no pricing". I guess (as usual) I just start blurting/writing stuff that's a little off topic. That shouldn't be a surprise to most people that ignore my posts...

My thought about no pricing is that I simply pass on the item unless it's something I'm interested in. If I'm interested, I'll send a request for pricing. If none is given, then it's just a total pass on the item. That's probably how I should have responded originally.

As to "why" the seller doesn't provide pricing, I can only speculate that they're looking for a buyer that really wants the card and would be willing to pay more than the going price for the card and the seller is afraid to list the card with a price because if someone immediately says "I'll take it", then the may feel they screwed up because they could have received more for the card. Makes you wonder if the seller gets offended if someone makes them an offer they feel is a bit too low.

[Eric72]

I tend to skip by items without a price. In my experience, discussions with the seller are typically not productive. They typically go something like this:

Me: I see you're selling [card name] on the BST. How much are you asking for it?

Them: Yeah, it's really nice-looking, isn't it? Strong for the grade.

Me: It looks good to me, too. So, how much did you want for the card?

Them: I don't know. I've been considering selling this for a while. I haven't figured out a price yet. Why don't you make me an offer? The worst I can do is say no.

Me: Well, I'd be interested somewhere around [insert number slightly below what the card is currently selling for on eBay]

Them: blah, blah, blah, can't go that low, blah, blah, blah, this is really strong for the grade, blah, blah, blah, I was thinking more like [overly optimistic price]


Sorry, I've been down this path too many times. For me, it's about time...and not wanting to waste it. If you're offering something for sale, don't forget the part where you include a price. Not everyone enjoys negotiating. Believe it or not, some people find it tedious and decide to simply pass.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I don't get upset by such posts, but it has always seemed to me that they are somehow not 100% genuinely interested in selling. If you really want to sell something, wouldn't you put a price on it?

Sure, there's risk that someone will jump on it and you'll feel stupid (as Fred points out) but there's also risk the other way—you alienate potential buyers who won't make an offer for fear of being seen as "too low" and therefore insulting.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I don't get upset by such posts, but it has always seemed to me that they are somehow not 100% genuinely interested in selling. If you really want to sell something, wouldn't you put a price on it?

Sure, there's risk that someone will jump on it and you'll feel stupid (as Fred points out) but there's also risk the other way—you alienate potential buyers who won't make an offer for fear of being seen as "too low" and therefore insulting.

Are the 90 percent of people who put a ridiculously high price on cards any more serious about selling?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are the 90 percent of people who put a ridiculously high price on cards any more serious about selling?

That is a good and fair point. Maybe....slightly, yes? (Especially if they're lugging them around to card shows)

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I tend to skip by items without a price. In my experience, discussions with the seller are typically not productive. They typically go something like this:

Me: I see you're selling [card name] on the BST. How much are you asking for it?

Them: Yeah, it's really nice-looking, isn't it? Strong for the grade.

Me: It looks good to me, too. So, how much did you want for the card?

Them: I don't know. I've been considering selling this for a while. I haven't figured out a price yet. Why don't you make me an offer? The worst I can do is say no.

Me: Well, I'd be interested somewhere around [insert number slightly below what the card is currently selling for on eBay]

Them: blah, blah, blah, can't go that low, blah, blah, blah, this is really strong for the grade, blah, blah, blah, I was thinking more like [overly optimistic price]


Sorry, I've been down this path too many times. For me, it's about time...and not wanting to waste it. If you're offering something for sale, don't forget the part where you include a price. Not everyone enjoys negotiating. Believe it or not, some people find it tedious and decide to simply pass.

Now that does sound a bit familiar.

[Bpm0014]

IMO a seller can do what they want, if it doesn't work for you, move on. Don't see why they owe it to anyone to put a price if they prefer to solicit offers.

I totally agree

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are the 90 percent of people who put a ridiculously high price on cards any more serious about selling?

Which is worse: 1) listening to offers, or 2) $2.567 million?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Which is worse: 1) listening to offers, or 2) $2.567 million?

The reference.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ighlight=stahl

[calvindog]

The lack of a scan bothers me more.

[Casey2296]

I sell 90%+ of the cards I post on BST, I do my research on current pricing no matter "what I have in to it" and price accordingly, always at a fair price for the good people of net54. I post to sell a card, not squeeze every dime out because if I'm selling that means I'm raising funds for something better.
You always know you priced too low when you get the immediate "I'll take it" but that's okay too.

The recent "please don't ask me what I want for the card" which may have triggered this thread is a bit extreme but if that's you're selling strategy so be it.
If you don't want to price your card and want me to do the research, I'm fine with that and I'll give you a fair offer, but don't waste my time time if you haven't done the research or have unrealistic expectations on the price. If I want the card for my PC and can't live without it, I'll overpay but that's usually not the case.

Or just be honest and say " I don't really want to sell this card unless I get over current market so don't bother coming with a fair offer". Perfectly okay response and you're not wasting anyone's time.

[jingram058]

Jeez Louise, how many times have I brought this up? Only to either be ignored or told to shut the f up and move on.

How hard is it to put a price on it? Pretty hard, when you want thousands of dollars for it.

[maniac_73]

I agree that everything should be priced, with a few exceptions. For rare, one-of-a-kind pieces like some Ruth or Joe Jackson items I've seen listed, it's not really about the money—it's about finding the right buyer who will negotiate privately. But for the other 99%, just list a price

[Snapolit1]

Bottom line is inviting people to make offers without any stated prices reduces your chances of selling an item dramatically. Because most people won’t bother. So you are basically telegraphing that selling is not really a priority.

Most likely whatever you are listing will show up 17 times in upcoming auctions anyway. It’s probably not that special.

[Leon]

At least it's a starting point. If the asking price is super high you can always offer 50% or whatever....And tell the seller that is what it's worth to you.

There are a few of my friends I deal with where I have gotten close to 50% off, by asking. I think I got close to 50% off of the one below. A friend was selling it on the bay...Ducky had no dental plan.

I would way rather members put prices on their listings but that is their call...

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Are the 90 percent of people who put a ridiculously high price on cards any more serious about selling?

[1952boyntoncollector]

i do think its not courteous if 100 percent of your cards you list are priced so high that nobody buys them as you are taking up space for people who want to sell their cards potentially but its not my website

[sportscardpete]

I don't mind if someone doesn't have a price on something rare and esoteric. What I do mind is if someone is fielding an offer to only go around and try to get a higher price elsewhere.

[Kutcher55]

Facebook has these "DonD" (Deal or no Deal) groups where the specific charter of the group is that people can post things without a price and solicit offers. It is well defined there, so if you don't like it then tough noogies. The DonD format is favorable for the seller of course because they have the potential to get offers higher than what they would be willing to accept for the card, and if the offer doesn't meet their # they can simply "no deal" and keep the card.

I would prefer net54 disallow such a format, but it is not my site. Ultimately, like many, I just avoid such listings, as I avoid dealers who don't post prices at shows. It's a good way of avoiding unnecessary encounters with the lame-asses of the world.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Facebook has these "DonD" (Deal or no Deal) groups where the specific charter of the group is that people can post things without a price and solicit offers. It is well defined there, so if you don't like it then tough noogies. The DonD format is favorable for the seller of course because they have the potential to get offers higher than what they would be willing to accept for the card, and if the offer doesn't meet their # they can simply "no deal" and keep the card.

I would prefer net54 disallow such a format, but it is not my site. Ultimately, like many, I just avoid such listings, as I avoid dealers who don't post prices at shows. It's a good way of avoiding unnecessary encounters with the lame-asses of the world.

I personally dislike the Deal or No Deal format, but I've sold more that way recently to drive engagement on my posts. I won't pretend to know how Facebook's algorithm works, but it appears that having people active in the comment section generates more traffic, resulting in more eyeballs and more sales.

I haven't had a situation where I received a higher offer than I was willing to accept, nor am I even realistically hoping for it. In my experience, someone always starts extremely low, usually with a comment like "Just to get you started." Then other people see that bid and go up from there in increments, like with most auctions. Most of the people bidding are high-volume resellers looking for new inventory to flip for a quick profit.

The risk of someone coming in too hard and too high is quite low. For me, the sole motivation is to avoid having my posts buried too quickly by the popular resellers who post in every vintage group at least once a day.

[packs]

I tend to think that anyone who doesn't price their card doesn't really want to sell it. They just want to see what they might get for it. And in that case, I'm not interested in making an offer or trying to pry your card from you for whatever inflated price you're holding out for.