NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-11-2020, 12:41 PM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
Jim Boushley
Jim Bou.shley
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 1,306
Default Purpose of B18 Blankets

This is from Issue 003 of Shoeless Notes, the email newsletter for the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum and Baseball Library in Greenville, South Carolina. Maybe others knew this but I sure didn't.

"When we do find out something we never knew before, it’s such an exciting thing! To be able to share it with you, to be able to make that history come alive, it makes the hours and hours of digging through old newspaper clippings and searching through digital archives worth it. On June 11, John Thorn learned something new.

John is the Official Historian of Major League Baseball, and, without hyperbole, he probably knows more about baseball than anyone who has ever lived on this planet. The fact that even John is still learning new things proves my earlier point: it’s impossible for anyone to know everything. But John didn’t just learn something that he didn’t know… he learned something that possibly less than 10 people currently living knew. He learned what the 1914 B18 Blankets were originally intended to be.

Which takes us back to John Thorn, who was doing some reading on June 11, and came across an entry on NYHistory.org which very casually told him precisely what he didn’t even know he was looking to learn that day:
A white cotton felt cloth pen wipe, printed with a central image of a baseball player marked "Jackson", surrounded by pennants marked "Cleveland" and "A.L." for American League, with green borders decorated with purple corner blocks resembling bases, with baseball items in each block including a ball, a mitt, crossed bats and a catcher's mask. Part of a collectible series of baseball team felts given as a premium by cigar stores and manufacturers for blotting the ink from a nib pen.

So there we have it! 106 years after their creation, the world knows once again what these “blankets” were originally intended to be: pen wipes."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-11-2020, 12:52 PM
jjp3rd jjp3rd is offline
John
John Pur.cell
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 283
Default

Very cool. Thanks for sharing this. OK to share with others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:04 PM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
Jim Boushley
Jim Bou.shley
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 1,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjp3rd View Post
Very cool. Thanks for sharing this. OK to share with others?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Absolutely, and you might want to go to the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum and Baseball Library website and join to get the newsletter. NO cost.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:06 PM
jjp3rd jjp3rd is offline
John
John Pur.cell
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 283
Default

Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:11 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Fountain pen blotters? Why would you use felt/fabric for that instead of the heavy cardboard normally used. You'd just have ink running through it onto whatever the felt was sitting on.

When I first opened it, I expected the answer "doll house rug" or "fabric square for quilting pillows or blankets."
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:12 PM
Vintagecatcher's Avatar
Vintagecatcher Vintagecatcher is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,186
Default Company that created the 1914 B18s

Christie's had an important group of documents in a lot that ended 4/5/2018, which revealed that Mercantile Novelty Co., Inc. made the B18s for American Tobacco Company.

Patrick
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:46 PM
buymycards's Avatar
buymycards buymycards is offline
Rick McQuillan
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,178
Default Pen wiper

At first I didn't think it made sense that they were pen wipers, but then I looked up a definition of pen wiper:

Definitions
from The Century Dictionary.

noun A piece of rag, chamois leather, or other material used for wiping or cleaning pens after use. Pen-wipers are often made up into ornaments more or less elaborate.

from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English.
noun A cloth, or other material, for wiping off or cleaning ink from a pen.

from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License.
noun A cloth or other material for wiping off or cleaning ink from a pen.
__________________
Rick McQuillan


T213-2 139 down 46 to go.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-11-2020, 02:00 PM
nolemmings's Avatar
nolemmings nolemmings is offline
Todd Schultz
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,720
Default

Odd in that I don't recall ever seeing one with much if any ink stains or blots. You'd think the school kids among others would have used them freely. I guess those could have been tossed as garbage, but the cynic in me makes me wonder if they were just collectibles and somebody, pressed to come up with a more useful explanation, chose ink wipers. Better that than snot rags.
__________________
If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-11-2020, 02:43 PM
Clutch-Hitter's Avatar
Clutch-Hitter Clutch-Hitter is offline
G.r.eg M@r.t.i.n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The South
Posts: 769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buymycards View Post
At first I didn't think it made sense that they were pen wipers, but then I looked up a definition of pen wiper:

Definitions
from The Century Dictionary.

noun A piece of rag, chamois leather, or other material used for wiping or cleaning pens after use. Pen-wipers are often made up into ornaments more or less elaborate.

from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English.
noun A cloth, or other material, for wiping off or cleaning ink from a pen.

from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License.
noun A cloth or other material for wiping off or cleaning ink from a pen.
Thought of the leather cards reading this
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-11-2020, 04:07 PM
Clutch-Hitter's Avatar
Clutch-Hitter Clutch-Hitter is offline
G.r.eg M@r.t.i.n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The South
Posts: 769
Default

Leather cards perhaps used to assist in opening jars and the like
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2020, 07:12 PM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
Jonathan Sterling
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,110
Default

At one time I was close to completing this set and thumbed through quite a few stacks. And it seemed that most stacks had a few that were washed out. So maybe these were the ones used to clean pens and then were washed to use again?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-11-2020, 08:06 PM
Jobu's Avatar
Jobu Jobu is offline
Bry@n
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 3,722
Default

This surprises me too. Like the silks, I thought these were made to display or sew together. I also thought what Todd did - odd that there aren't a bunch with ink stains on them.

I have a cabinet photo that shows several B18s sewn together to make a pillow. This doesn't mean they couldn't have been repurposed ink blotters, but I would like to see the source material for the ink blotter claim.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B18 Blanket Cabinet Photo.jpg (77.3 KB, 991 views)
File Type: jpg B18 Blanket Cabinet Photo - Crop 1000 DPI.jpg (8.1 KB, 969 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2020, 09:09 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Des Moines metra area
Posts: 440
Default

That's a really cool photo. I've been working on this set for some time. The ink blotter theory is interesting, however, I just don't see it. I don't see any with ink stains that would support this thinking. As for washing, not a chance. As soon as you get them wet the ink bleeds. Just my simple thinking. Regardless, I love the set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
This surprises me too. Like the silks, I thought these were made to display or sew together. I also thought what Todd did - odd that there aren't a bunch with ink stains on them.

I have a cabinet photo that shows several B18s sewn together to make a pillow. This doesn't mean they couldn't have been repurposed ink blotters, but I would like to see the source material for the ink blotter claim.
__________________
Des Moines/Iowa Baseball collector
Always looking for:
OJ's - Des Moines, Sioux City, Burlington
Pre-1957 Des Moines baseball memorbilia
**Ok, I buy DM stuff after '57**

Working on the following sets:
-T201 Master Set
-B18s set minus Reds. *18 to go*
-T202 End panel set
-'35 Goudey
-T206 361 commons/common back
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2020, 10:27 PM
NiceDocter NiceDocter is offline
Rocky Rockwell
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jacksonville , Florida
Posts: 1,103
Default great eye

Great eye for that pickup on the cabinet! Probably sat in an antique store for years without anyone noticing! Wonder if the girl in the photo knew that years from now we would be discussing how wonderful the picture is but because of the pillow on the chair!!!! LOL

Last edited by NiceDocter; 09-11-2020 at 10:28 PM. Reason: LOL
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-12-2020, 12:56 AM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,540
Default

I always assumed that the B-18 blankets were meant to be drooled upon.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-12-2020, 04:46 AM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
Jim Boushley
Jim Bou.shley
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 1,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
This surprises me too. Like the silks, I thought these were made to display or sew together. I also thought what Todd did - odd that there aren't a bunch with ink stains on them.

I have a cabinet photo that shows several B18s sewn together to make a pillow. This doesn't mean they couldn't have been repurposed ink blotters, but I would like to see the source material for the ink blotter claim.
This is the source material. I also just joined John Thorn's blog site:

"Shoeless Notes - Issue 003
September 11, 2020

Hello and welcome to Issue 003 of Shoeless Notes, the email newsletter for the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum and Baseball Library in Greenville, South Carolina.

When we do find out something we never knew before, it’s such an exciting thing! To be able to share it with you, to be able to make that history come alive, it makes the hours and hours of digging through old newspaper clippings and searching through digital archives worth it. On June 11, John Thorn learned something new.
John is the Official Historian of Major League Baseball, and, without hyperbole, he probably knows more about baseball than anyone who has ever lived on this planet. The fact that even John is still learning new things proves my earlier point: it’s impossible for anyone to know everything. But John didn’t just learn something that he didn’t know… he learned something that possibly less than 10 people currently living knew. He learned what the 1914 B18 Blankets were originally intended to be.
Let me back up, because that last sentence probably doesn’t mean a whole heck of a lot to most of you, and the rest of this newsletter is going to go a lot better for everyone if we’re all on the same page! Back in the early days of baseball cards, card sets would often times have designations such as B18 or N162. One of the most famous card sets of all time, which features one of the most famous cards of all time, is the T206 set which was produced from 1909 to 1911. If you’ve ever heard anyone mention the Honus Wagner card that has sold for millions of dollars, they’re talking about his T206. There wasn’t a rhyme or reason to the lettering or numbering of those sets, it was just a way to tell them apart.
In 1914, a unique “card” set was introduced, which has become known as the B18 set. But the cards were not made of a paper-like material, as most other cards had been before it, and as most have been since. The B18s were felt squares measuring approximately 5 ¼" on each side with a dark brown border all the way around. They started getting included as part of tobacco packages, most notably in ones with the brand name of Egyptienne Straights Cigarettes.
A common way baseball cards were distributed in the early days was in packs of cigarettes, and often times the cigarette companies would have advertisements on the back of the card. In fact, the reason Honus Wagner’s T206 card is so valuable was due to Wagner’s objection to a cigarette ad being on the back of his card. Wagner demanded that the American Tobacco Company pull his card from circulation, which made them super rare, and since he is an all-time great, a graded example can now fetch 7 figures.

If you’d like to read a more in-depth history of the B18 set, read THIS PIECE by Jeffrey Obermeyer, which he wrote in 2009
The method of delivery for the B18s was nothing new, but the size and material of these “cards” was different than almost anything that had been seen before. They became known as “blankets” over the years, and nobody really seemed to know why. One working theory was that they were just like tiny blankets, themselves. Another theory was that the name was due to the fact that people would collect as many as they could, and either sew them directly together to create a blanket, or stitch them onto other patches of fabric and create quilts.
The B18 set had 90 different baseball players represented, including nine from each of ten different major league teams. Five of the teams were from the National League (Boston, Brooklyn, New York, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis), and five were from the American League (Cleveland, Detroit, New York, St. Louis, and Washington). There were 16 teams in major league baseball at the time, but why the other six were left out of this set will likely forever remain a mystery.
Of the 90 players represented in the B18 set, nine became Hall of Famers: Max Carey, Frank Chance, Ty Cobb, Miller Huggins, Walter Johnson, Rabbit Maranville, Casey Stengel, Bobby Wallace and Zach Wheat. Other notable players featured in the set include Fred Snodgrass, Ray Chapman, Chick Gandil, and our very own Shoeless Joe Jackson.
Joe’s blanket had two different variants, each of which are shown above. One had purple basepaths and yellow bases, and the other had green basepaths and purple bases. The purple basepath version is the rarer of the two, and therefore the more valuable, though both are incredibly sought-after.

The original photograph which inspired the image on Joe’s B18 blanket was taken by George Grantham Bain (likely on March 23, 1914 at Cleveland’s spring-training site in Athens, Georgia)
Which takes us back to John Thorn, who was doing some reading on June 11, and came across an entry on NYHistory.org which very casually told him precisely what he didn’t even know he was looking to learn that day:
A white cotton felt cloth pen wipe, printed with a central image of a baseball player marked "Jackson", surrounded by pennants marked "Cleveland" and "A.L." for American League, with green borders decorated with purple corner blocks resembling bases, with baseball items in each block including a ball, a mitt, crossed bats and a catcher's mask. Part of a collectible series of baseball team felts given as a premium by cigar stores and manufacturers for blotting the ink from a nib pen.
So there we have it! 106 years after their creation, the world knows once again what these “blankets” were originally intended to be: pen wipes. "
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-12-2020, 05:02 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubman1941 View Post
There wasn’t a rhyme or reason to the lettering or numbering of those sets, it was just a way to tell them apart.

Part of a collectible series of baseball team felts given as a premium by cigar stores and manufacturers for blotting the ink from a nib pen.
So there we have it! 106 years after their creation, the world knows once again what these “blankets” were originally intended to be: pen wipes. "
Still don't have a period source; that's just a modern attribution, as far as I can tell. All of their tobacco felts are listed as "pen wipes", with the disclaimer that "Due to ongoing research, information about this object is subject to change."
May be right, may be wrong. But the article writer's quote I bolded is incorrect. The letters have meanings, and the numbers are grouped in such a way that they also have meaning, just like the numbers in the Dewey Decimal system have meaning.

Here's my counterpoint. They declare the national flag blankets as pen wipes as well.
https://www.nyhistory.org/exhibit/pen-wipe-tobacco-82


Quote:
Pen wipe/ tobacco
OBJECT NUMBER:
2002.1.2852
DATE:
1912-1930
MEDIUM:
Cloth
DIMENSIONS:
11 3/4 x 8 1/4 in.
DESCRIPTION:
A brown cotton felt cloth pen wipe, printed with a 48 star American flag, with a red and blue border decorated with ribbons, swags and striped shields with a brown border. Part of a series of Flags of the World given as a premium by cigar stores and manufacturers for blotting the ink from a nib pen.
CREDIT LINE:
Gift of Bella C. Landauer
Does anyone believe that in 1910 an American company printed a US flag on an item meant to clean soot off a fountain pen? I remember how much outrage bathing suits printed with American Flag symbology were causing back in the 1980s. Making an item intended to be soiled and then thrown away depicting an American Flag a hundred years ago would have been ridiculous. I would say the labeling on nyhistory.org is lazy and the article writer's republishing that attribution as some kind of fact is also lazy.
Weren't many of these items redemptions as well from coupons or order booklets? There should be some paper trail if these were manufactured with the intent of being pen wipes.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.

Last edited by swarmee; 09-12-2020 at 05:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-12-2020, 08:42 AM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default hmmmmm

Don't buy it at all. First nothing to do with cigars so makes what's said less credible? Second - without the felts manufacturer or possibly something from the ATC - no way were they pen wipes even if someone used one in that matter once or twice. On coupons and trade card type paper - it's been clearly stated that it's use was for the home honey to create household items. I have a folder showing all the things that could be done with them - pictures plenty of sewn items - no mention of a pen blotter. While I'm sure as a baseball historian he brings a lot to the table - sometimes supposition replaces fact.
I'm rarely right about anything - just ask my wife. However until I see something contemporaneous in print - ink blotter a HUGE stretch. I actually have a few blotters in my accumulation. 1930's-1950's their "hey day" and ostensibly made of a porous paper.
I would LOVE to see an actual reference as the utilitarian and/or practical uses in either situation are not mutually exclusive. Come over to the non-sport side (link at top) and let's discuss it. We have a couple of experts in the field that would be happy to explore and discuss the issue even though the S/L/B category gets little respect.

no guarantees whether written or implied........
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-12-2020, 08:53 AM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default an additional thought

I don't think I've ever seen a blotter that didn't have a company attribution....
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:51 AM
forbesrs forbesrs is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1
Default Ummmm, no B18's were not made to be used as pen blotters

As background, I co-authored the book American Tobacco Cards and have completed the manuscript for another book on American tobacco silks, flannels, and leathers. My specialty is 1900-1920 tobacco.

As a collector I have a ton of reference material, catalogs, etc., as well as the silks and flannels themselves.

I can categorically state that the tobacco flannels were NOT originally produced to be used as pen blotters. They were produced to be used in quilts, decorations, tablecloths, etc., but there was never any intent to produce these for wiping pens. The fact that someone may have at some point used one of the flannels as a pen blotter (while tragic for that example) does not prove anything. I have handled thousands of tobacco flannels and have never seen one example with ink on it in any type of pattern as you would get when wiping a pen.

This falls into the category of urban legend - sounds interesting but has absolutely no basis in fact.

As a note, B18s are flannel, not felt. Flannel & felt are two distinctly different materials. Burdick named the "B" category "Blankets, Rugs, Cloth Items" for the tobacco inserts and premiums which were made out of flannel, plush, and a couple of other types of material. I am not certain whether Burdick originated the term or whether others in the early hobby (1930's) called these items blankets, but Burdick used the term in his American Card Catalog: ("B" is for blanket...). The BF2 Baseball Players are on felt. (non-tobacco).

There is a distinct logical system in the "B" section of the ACC, with divisions made by type of material, whether fringed or not, and size. Not perfect, but a pretty good organization of this category of tobacco collectibles.

Bob Forbes
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-12-2020, 12:18 PM
teza11's Avatar
teza11 teza11 is offline
Jeff
Je.ff For.teza
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 251
Default

I don’t buy it either. Especially as it more broadly applies to novelty “rugs” in general. I want to read something printed by the tobacco company at that time explaining the purpose or intent of their marketing scheme. To that point, I’m fresh back from the teens having spent the last hour reading Egyptienne Straights Cigarettes newspaper ads. Lots of print material between 1913-14. Very little before or after. They were really loud about their blankets, rugs, and other bonus novelty items. Highly proud and patriotic about their large U.S. flag giveaways. They advertised that the flags were in “high demand” and “the ladies have found so many uses for them”. What I find very interesting is that there is absolutely no mention or advertising (at least that I could find) related to the issuance of the B18 baseball flannels. For a company that shouted so loudly about Navajo blankets…why no mention of America’s national sport?

Jeff

Various supporting ads –
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ESC 1913 Rug Ad.jpg (64.5 KB, 868 views)
File Type: jpg ESC 1913 Rug Brooch Ad.jpg (80.9 KB, 871 views)
File Type: jpg ESC 1913 Rug Navajo Ad.jpg (87.6 KB, 872 views)
File Type: jpg ESC 1913 Pepsin Gum Ad.jpg (71.6 KB, 864 views)
File Type: jpg ESC 1914 Ad.jpg (78.7 KB, 864 views)
File Type: jpg Flag News Clip 1914.jpg (53.9 KB, 863 views)
File Type: jpg ESC Flag Size Change June 1914.jpg (64.3 KB, 868 views)
File Type: jpg Tango Tie Clasp 1914.jpg (51.7 KB, 865 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-12-2020, 01:28 PM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,151
Default

I have to agree. Is it possible that that was the original intention by the manufacturer? I suppose...though they certainly were't used that way. I have only ever seen paper ink blotters, as well as not a single B18 with localized ink stains that made me think, "that must have been used to clean a pen".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG-2160.jpg (19.5 KB, 856 views)
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-12-2020, 01:32 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,540
Default

All the recent input on this thread reconfirms my original drooling thoughts.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-12-2020, 01:37 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

So, let's wrap this up with the following:

#BUSTED for the Mythbusters fans

or

#fakenews
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-12-2020, 01:49 PM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
Jim Boushley
Jim Bou.shley
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 1,306
Default

Just so everyone knows - I have sent the author a note saying all the conclusions are that his conclusion was wrong. I suggested he look at our site and this post.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:19 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Thanks. I would think people who are paid to do museum work and/or write articles would be much more thorough in their research in the future.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:29 PM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Thanks. I would think people who are paid to do museum work and/or write articles would be much more thorough in their research in the future.
I can't speak to whether anyone involved in this theory is paid or a volunteer, but I think it's probably safe to say we have all passed on something we've read as fact, at some point, without any further research. I personally enjoy discussing/debating other theories.
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18

Last edited by conor912; 09-12-2020 at 02:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:34 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conor912 View Post
I can't speak to whether anyone involved in this theory is paid or a volunteer, but I think it's probably safe to say we have all passed on something we've read as fact, at some point, without any further research. I personally enjoy discussing/debating other theories.
Yeah, but I also expect grading card companies to detect alterations they promise they can, so who knows. People just cash paychecks, I guess. No pride in ownership. I know I can't do that at my job.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:42 PM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,151
Default

I hear you....I guess my point was that it matters (at least IMO), if he's paid or not. I agree that if he is, the bar should be a lot higher.
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:47 PM
bbnut bbnut is offline
Chris Rudd
member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 116
Default

I saw the original post on twitter some months back, and the one today, and I said both times, that I don't buy it. I would want to see some provenance.

Back during that time, they had fountain pens (pens with a reservoir), and nib pens (sometimes called dip pens). You don't want to use fabric to help clean off a fountain pen because the fabric strands can get into the capillary system and clog it up. Paper--or today, paper towels--is a good way to get the excess ink off the pen when you're done using it, which you want to do because the excess ink can potentially clog the system or cause a mess.

It wouldn't be the first time a historical society or museum screwed up something like this. We only have to look at the location of the Baseball Hall of Fame, and Doubleday Field for an example (although, as we know, that was done deliberately).
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:44 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

It's really common for general antiques people to label something in a way that matches either similar things they've seen, or as similar things that are currently popular.

My mom- when she still could collected egg cups. Over the years they went in and out of popularity.
When they were popular, other stuff that didn't have a clear use and was about the right size would get called an egg cup. Like toothpick holders, partial salt cellers, And if they were currently very popular shot glasses and eye cups....

When they were unpopular, and tooth pick holders were popular many became toothpick holders.

That works for lots of other stuff. Like a hand crank apple peeler becomes a pencil sharpener. Early! Rare! .....and totally NOT a pencil sharpener..

The writer is probably familiar with some form of pen wiper, so every cloth promotional item about that size is to them a pen wiper.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-12-2020, 10:19 PM
Jobu's Avatar
Jobu Jobu is offline
Bry@n
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 3,722
Default

Craig, Rocky - glad to see you find this photo to be as fun as I do!

I tried to get a bigger and darker image of the pillow for a closer look (just checking for ink stains ).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B18 Blanket Cabinet Photo - Crop 1000 DPI zoom.jpg (63.3 KB, 798 views)
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:08 PM
ThomasL ThomasL is offline
Tho.mas L Sau.nders
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Default Flag Blankets

Im suspicious that they were pen wipes as a quick ebay search revealed very few with ink stains (logically it stands to reason if that was the intended use there would be a lot).

Also the here is an ad from 1914 for the Sovereign Cigarettes "Flag Blankets"...no mention of blotter or ink anywhere in the ad that I can see (4-5-1914 The News and Observer, Raleigh, NC)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-12-2020, 11:11 PM
ThomasL ThomasL is offline
Tho.mas L Sau.nders
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Default

nevermind it was too big to upload I guess, but the citation is there for you to look up the ad for the Flag Blankets
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:43 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
nevermind it was too big to upload I guess, but the citation is there for you to look up the ad for the Flag Blankets
They've already been posted in Post 21.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-13-2020, 03:33 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobu View Post
Craig, Rocky - glad to see you find this photo to be as fun as I do! I tried to get a bigger and darker image of the pillow for a closer look (just checking for ink stains ).
Such a cool photo, Bryan, wonderful to see "our stuff" in contemporaneous images.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:17 PM
BuzzD's Avatar
BuzzD BuzzD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York metro area
Posts: 677
Default

I have one with an ink blot - I always wondered why, so the explanation makes sense to me
__________________
Buzz

PreWar NYAL cards, photos, etc.
WantList: Mendelsohns Marsans; Rose 760PC Niles; Koester Mitchell; Koester Ferguson;1924 Diaz Roettger
Successful deals with 60+ board members
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-13-2020, 06:10 PM
Orioles1954 Orioles1954 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,253
Default

The purpose of B18 Blankets was to annoy auction writers 100 years later.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-13-2020, 06:34 PM
Orioles1954 Orioles1954 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,253
Default

I have handled several thousand B18 blankets. Have never seen one with ink marks. However, I've seen hundreds with stitch markings, ya know, for blankets!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 09-15-2020, 05:48 PM
BuzzD's Avatar
BuzzD BuzzD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New York metro area
Posts: 677
Default peckinpaugh ink blot

Here is my blanket with an ink blot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg b18.jpg (75.2 KB, 635 views)
__________________
Buzz

PreWar NYAL cards, photos, etc.
WantList: Mendelsohns Marsans; Rose 760PC Niles; Koester Mitchell; Koester Ferguson;1924 Diaz Roettger
Successful deals with 60+ board members
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 09-15-2020, 05:50 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Des Moines metra area
Posts: 440
Default

1st one I've ever seen. Thanks Buzz
__________________
Des Moines/Iowa Baseball collector
Always looking for:
OJ's - Des Moines, Sioux City, Burlington
Pre-1957 Des Moines baseball memorbilia
**Ok, I buy DM stuff after '57**

Working on the following sets:
-T201 Master Set
-B18s set minus Reds. *18 to go*
-T202 End panel set
-'35 Goudey
-T206 361 commons/common back
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-15-2020, 07:37 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzD View Post
Here is my blanket with an ink blot.
Maybe that one was used for that, but how many T206s and other old cards have we seen with ink spots? I don't think anybody would claim those cards were made for that purpose, and I don't think B-18s were, either. I'm with Orioles54, if they were invented with a particular purpose in mind, it was to be sewn together for a blanket, pillowcase, or throw. Or maybe the inventor had this diamond in mind for the nine players on each team:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SAM_0495 (640x480).jpg (40.2 KB, 633 views)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-15-2020, 09:40 PM
ThomasL ThomasL is offline
Tho.mas L Sau.nders
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 619
Default

for what it is worth...which is nothing...

I would argue there was no intended purpose for the "blankets" other than to help sell tobacco products and in particularly sell to younger demographics.

Im sure a few used them as ink blotters as I think blotters were in high demand especially in school settings (at least reading some news articles I saw from 1914).

I saw no mention of "ink" or "blotter" for the Flag "Blankets" in 1914 ads or articles.

Seems to me the B18s would be made for the same reasons and logically it would be simply as a collectible/incentive in order to boost sales.

I will add I love the Shoeless Notes and see nothing wrong with their twist/take playing off John Thorn's insight. Keep up the good work over there guys if yall are reading this.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:45 AM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasL View Post
for what it is worth...which is nothing...

I would argue there was no intended purpose for the "blankets" other than to help sell tobacco products and in particularly sell to younger demographics.

Im sure a few used them as ink blotters as I think blotters were in high demand especially in school settings (at least reading some news articles I saw from 1914).

I saw no mention of "ink" or "blotter" for the Flag "Blankets" in 1914 ads or articles.

Seems to me the B18s would be made for the same reasons and logically it would be simply as a collectible/incentive in order to boost sales.

I will add I love the Shoeless Notes and see nothing wrong with their twist/take playing off John Thorn's insight. Keep up the good work over there guys if yall are reading this.
+1
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:53 AM
buymycards's Avatar
buymycards buymycards is offline
Rick McQuillan
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,178
Default My new ink blotter

7 1/2' x 44". 24 B7's and 4 B5's.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20200921_081637.jpg (75.2 KB, 536 views)
File Type: jpg 20200921_081647.jpg (72.8 KB, 532 views)
File Type: jpg 20200921_081706.jpg (74.1 KB, 535 views)
__________________
Rick McQuillan


T213-2 139 down 46 to go.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-21-2020, 05:14 PM
FrankWakefield FrankWakefield is offline
Frank Wakefield
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Franklin KY
Posts: 2,718
Default

Alright.... ink blotter? I'm not convinced. I've seen several white border cards and Goudey cards with ink spots, marks and blobs on them... haven't seen a B18 with that. I've seen a few that looks like a border was trimmed into the card a bit (which I figured was done after distribution because it was slightly diagonal from the square corners). Are we gonna see someone say that our old ball cards were blotters, no... I'm not convinced about this blotter idea. One of us has such a B18, but there are hundreds of B18's in our hands and we only have ONE? I'm not convinced. Convincible, yes; but some contemporary print description would sell that to me.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-24-2020, 04:51 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,200
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teza11 View Post
I don’t buy it either. Especially as it more broadly applies to novelty “rugs” in general. I want to read something printed by the tobacco company at that time explaining the purpose or intent of their marketing scheme. To that point, I’m fresh back from the teens having spent the last hour reading Egyptienne Straights Cigarettes newspaper ads. Lots of print material between 1913-14. Very little before or after. They were really loud about their blankets, rugs, and other bonus novelty items. Highly proud and patriotic about their large U.S. flag giveaways. They advertised that the flags were in “high demand” and “the ladies have found so many uses for them”. What I find very interesting is that there is absolutely no mention or advertising (at least that I could find) related to the issuance of the B18 baseball flannels. For a company that shouted so loudly about Navajo blankets…why no mention of America’s national sport?

Jeff

Various supporting ads –
Cool ads..
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-25-2020, 05:41 AM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
Jim Boushley
Jim Bou.shley
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Kingsport Tennessee
Posts: 1,306
Default

Apparently many people have reached out to the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum regarding their article in the last newsletter. For those who do not get the newsletter I provide this response.

"Hello and welcome to Issue 004 of Shoeless Notes, the email newsletter for the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum and Baseball Library in Greenville, South Carolina.
After reading the last newsletter about the B18 Blankets, a handful of people reached out, unsatisfied with the notion that those pieces were originally intended to be pen wipes when they were released in 1914. An argument being made is “if they were intended to be ink blotters, then many of the blankets which have survived all these years later should be stained.” While that is a logical initial thought, it isn’t necessarily true, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, if you ruined a piece of fabric with ink (whether it had been used for its intended purpose or not), would you have kept that used, dirty fabric? Most likely no, you would have thrown it away. It would be like finding a Kleenex package in 100 years, and saying “there’s no way these were intended to be used for people to blow their nose… all of the ones here in this package are completely clean!” That would be because the ones that were used for their intended purpose had been discarded.
Secondly, there are plenty of examples of B18s which have stains. Some stains are bigger than others. Some stains are darker than others. But very few B18 examples have survived in pristine condition 100+ years later. A quick eBay search shows many examples with stains of some kind and in varying sizes. Whether those stains were caused by ink from a pen is clearly up for debate.
In addition to the ones which have stains, there are many examples today which have been faded. Is the fading because they were subjected to sunlight? Maybe, though I’m not aware of many blankets or pillowcases that are faded from sun damage since blankets and pillowcases are primarily used indoors. Another possibility is that there was an attempt to clean an ink-stained B18 so it could be re-used, and the cleaning chemicals used to remove the ink also helped fade the print on the piece. That’s just a theory, obviously, but it seems entirely plausible to me.
Whatever the case, it is clear that age, alone, does not fade the print because there are hundreds of examples of B18s today which still have bold, dark images. I had always been under the impression that the B18s were intended to be sewn to create blankets or pillowcases or quilts ..., so the John Thorn “discovery” came as a shock to me, too. But just because this potentially new information turns our preconceived notions on their head, doesn’t mean it’s impossible for it to be true. There was a time when everyone alive was absolutely positive that the earth was flat, too.
There is a lesson to be learned from all of this, though. And that is a lesson that can be applied to any research, whether it’s about Joe Jackson, about baseball cards, or about anything else: trusting just one source, no matter how reliable that source may normally be, can be a dangerous thing. "
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-25-2020, 06:44 AM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,902
Default

What a crock of a response. Rather than pointing to any of the material from 100 years ago from the company, they're doubling down on the theory and calling us flat-Earthers.... ridiculous.
No mention at all of US Flags being produced in order to be soiled intentionally.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-25-2020, 08:35 AM
conor912's Avatar
conor912 conor912 is offline
C0nor D0na.hue
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubman1941 View Post
There is a lesson to be learned from all of this, though. And that is a lesson that can be applied to any research, whether it’s about Joe Jackson, about baseball cards, or about anything else: trusting just one source, no matter how reliable that source may normally be, can be a dangerous thing. "
Hahaha. Except that every other source except for John Thorne makes zero mention of wiping pens, but whatever.
__________________
Items for sale or trade here UPDATED 3-16-18
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Multi purpose Scanner Mickey Mays Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 0 03-20-2017 09:41 AM
Did the Cubs lose the 1918 WS on purpose? greenmonster66 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 04-21-2011 06:57 PM
WOW! This seems to defeat the purpose of getting scum booted from ebay! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 13 04-21-2008 12:15 PM
what is the purpose of this? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 04-26-2007 11:26 AM
What Was The Purpose For Factory Stamps? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 01-20-2007 07:06 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:57 AM.


ebay GSB