It's the same old song

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Posted By: Rich Klein

But with a different post depending on the day.

In this corner, Jim C., who has a huge investment in cards, and wants all his future purchases to be verified by a 3rd person. That 3rd person is very talented and keeps up to date on card alterations and without that person's approval, Jim won't purchase any cards. By and itself, that premise is fine -- I'm beginning to think that part of the issue is the constant bringing up of Kevin S.

Jim has been called out in the past for not wanting to review all his cards, and I do understand his issue that he just wants to look forward, not review the cards he has already bought. IMHO, I believe Jim should have ALL his cards looked at because it makes his argument about cleaning up mistakes in the hobby weaker. And frankly, that seeming hypocrisy is why people call out Jim. Since SGC is 20 minutes from his house, a drop by to examine some of the cards Jim himself has stated worries him would not be impossible. However, since those cards are Jim's property -- its totally his decision on what to do with them,

Jim, I'm not trying to read anything more into your motives BUT I believe that you want only to worry about things going forward. The past is prologue and can't be changed. I personally agree with the non-insulting posters that that if you want to be a leader in this movement, you have to be one of the first guinea pigs to have your cards checked out. However, that is your call and your call only.

In the other corner -- The Barry Sloate argument -- again -- if I'm stating something wrong, please correct me -- there is nothing personal in any of this:

Barry's point is that as an auction agent, trying to get top dollar for his client's cards -- he is comfortable sending cards off to SGC to get graded so they will sell easier in his auction. He believes that he has done his due dillegence by sending the cards off to be graded, having them examined with tools he may not possess and have them returned in an encapsulated state. At which point, he feels comfortable selling those cards. If Jim wants Kevin to look at Barry's cards -- it then becomes Barry's option as the seller of those cards if he wants a 4th persons approval before those cards are sold to Jim. Barry can either say yes or no to Jim's request as while the card is in his possession for the auction, it is his card.

Yesterday, we got the added fillup of LTS. Could someone please bring me up to speed on LTS and exactly what is involved to join or lurj. I would love to read that discussion group (or at least create a favorites link to this).

We also got the personal attacks back which makes for a funfilled beer and popcorn afternoon and evening

Now, is there some happy medium we can all reach OR will we fighting this same argument (like we did with Jay B and Jim C) for an seemingly endless amount of time.

I prefer we agree to disagree and not bring up this subject for a while

Regards
Rich

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Posted By: pas

Rich it is a members only chatboard so there is no way to lurk. You can apply for membership on the public website which I believe is letstalksportscards.com or you can get a current member to sponsor your application which might be more efficient.

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Posted By: Mark H.

...but it seems that there is an implied admission of guilt being applied to any seller of graded material not willing to let Kevin review his cards. Although I respect Kevin's detection methods and have, more than once, looked over his shoulder as he pointed stuff out, it's wrong to associate trimmage with anyone who doesn't care to subject their material to ANY other single opinion.

Again, if I misread this implication, I apologize and stand corrected.

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Posted By: Keith Conforti

Why all the skullduggery about a sportscard chat board? There's nothing secretive about LTS aside from the password. It is merely a gaggle of like-minded, enthusiastic, objective collectors that can agree (or agree to disagree) on many current issues in the hobby and the simple joys of collecting that we can all appreciate.

The only reason it's not public is to avoid the stampede of trolls, lurkers, and other ne'erdowells that inhabit and ultimately pollute all public message boards. It's really quite a refreshing change of pace from all the jackass-influenced rhetoric of any other board.

My 2¢.

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Posted By: leon

Nice avatar.....You said:

"It's really quite a refreshing change of pace from all the jackass-influenced rhetoric of any other board."

That sounds like somewhat of a self fullfilling prophecy you just made on this board. ....

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Posted By: Keith Conforti

Leon... nothing but positive stuff from this avatar! I don't think my post could be considered the rantings of a negative troll.

LTS actually primarily grew out of the debacle that is CU, but you can't say that N54 is immune from the same types of characters popping up in any given thread to spew their inane, hurtful views, though you should be commended for your ongoing efforts to curb that behavior here and limiting activity by anonymous posters.

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Posted By: leon

Unfortunately I am eminently aware of your thoughts about some posters on this board. I think Kenny C. made the best analogy yet. It's like herding cats.....If anyone put their self in my place they would make a lot of the same decisions to try to keep this thing on track. You are correct too in that I have 0 tolerance for anonymous posters posting anything but benign on topic statements.....best regards


edited to say I am spelling worse than usual today (2x)....and that's pretty bad

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Rich,

Thats a fair representation of my position.

Keith,

Nice picture and welcome to Net 54. I hear the argument about that LTS is boring and nobody cares and we are just a bunch of guys who like to sit around and talk cards but to the outsider you have got to appreciate its funny if you know the characters when people get thrown out(like me), they get rejected from joining, they quit voluntarily, they rejoin etc. Just seems to be a lot of that going on lately....its entertainment.

When Scott and then Jay made their last stands on this board that was entertainment. I guess you have got to know the characters to appreciate it.

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Posted By: peter chao

Rich,

That was a pretty good summation...so you were paying attention. What's wrong with letting Jim approach buying cards his way? There's no reason to try and change him. I also have no problems with letting Barry run his business his way. Now maybe the song will change a bit.

Also I vote for letting nerds post if they are on topic most of the time.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Keith Conforti

Jim, thank you, but I've actually been a member here for a couple years. I seldom post as I am not primarily a pre-war collector. I often lurk as you can't beat the entertainment value for your dollar here!

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

I don't think people think it's funny when they see we have booting cetain people out. Look at how you poke and prod. I think most readers here clearly see why we don't want you there anymore.

Maybe we should take a vote?

Just know that even if you win the vote you aren't welcome back. Kiss kiss.

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Posted By: peter chao

I don't mind being an outsider...I'm just wondering if the Establishment can deal with it. (for Jeff L.)

Peter C.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Tom,

If Kevin loses I would lose. Honestly, we both know I would not fit given the emphasis on lets all get along and no controversy. As you know, I'm a lets stir things up kind of guy and lets make it interesting.

Nice of you to offer kisses.

Keith,

You're right. Even though once in a while word gets out over controversy on LTS it is nothing compared with here. Just when I think there is noone around that can come out of the blue and attack me...BAM..I want Peter Chao to hang around here so he can deflect some of the criticism.

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Posted By: Matt

Actually, LTS seems closed for applications at the moment - the email addy on their website for application is bouncing emails...

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Posted By: peter chao

Jim,

Net 54 needs to be stirred up once in a while...don't go anywhere. I got your back. Who knows maybe we can start a small outsider's club within Net54.

Peter C.

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Posted By: GoSoxBoSox

Matt,

Send me your e-mail address to gosoxbosox@comcast.net. I'll make sure you are contacted by the right person.

Thanks,

Tom

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter--always the rebel.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I just read this thread for the first time and it seems like Rich Klein's point has been ignored completely, and yet another discussion of the LTS board, or the Stonecutters (secret society in The Simpsons) is the focus.

Rich has summed up my point well...I do not think Kevin knows more than the SGC graders (nothing personal Kevin) and the cards I sell are not mine. I can not subject my consignors to that kind of third degree.

And Leon, it's "eminently." Imminently means something that will happen very soon.

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Posted By: leon

Duly noted and fixed....and it's "something" not "some"...while we are here ...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Touche!...it has been corrected.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

eminent/imminent: reminds me of a great Archie Bunker line. When explaining his first time, which I believe was in a baseball dugout with Edith, he states they were "imminent with each other." I still get a chuckle out of that one.