T207 Back Scarcity in Today's Market

[Browncow75]

With the "Louisiana Find" coming to auction in the upcoming year, I just wanted to see where the multipliers for T207 backs are at right now. I looked at archived posts from 2003 and 2006, and wondered if the discovery of the Red Cross backs has raised or lowered the interest in the other available backs (i.e.-Cycle, Napoleon, Anon 3, etc). Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on the subject!

Brandon

[Leon]

It's hard to say if the find, that will be being auctioned by REA, will increase other backs' values. I would guess they will stay about the same. The Red Crosses will come down from historical prices but I doubt we will see any for under a couple thousand dollars....Just a guess. Of course, for purely greedy reasons I hope they bring big dollars, but I really don't think they can all stay at those 5 figure prices, notwithstanding the nicest one(s), especially Lowdermilk (I think there is a Lowdermilk). regards

[frohme]

Hey Brandon,

I tend to agree with Leon, that the find won't make much in the way of waves w.r.t interest in the other T207 backs. The general availability (or lack thereof) of the cards is as much a factor as the specific back. Yes, Cycle commands some premium (do folks just like red?), but the find won't likely change that much. The new Red Cross backs are a nice addition to the general population at large, but for me they're just another few cards of a back I'll likely never own... more possible now than before, but still highly unlikely.

As for the "back multipliers", other T207 collectors will have varying opinions on this, I'd imagine, but for me its not about the specific back as much as it is the "class" - Recruit vs Broadleaf. With either class of cards, its also hard to put a notion of what cards are "common" and for which a base VG price makes sense. Ask advanced collectors of the set about commons in the 155 Recruit class cards and you'll get interesting answers. Some are definitely common, some are definitely not ... there are lots of gray (and tan) areas in between. Generally, I tend not to even think in terms of multipliers because in many cases the back is irrelevant - you just don't often see some of the cards - when you do, if the back is Broadleaf or Anon Factory 25 will be of little matter if its the first (your player here) you've seen in 18 months of looking.

I guess this is a long way of saying - if the set has grabbed you, go with it, hold on and enjoy the ride - the backs will sort themselves out. Collect what you like and have fun!

--
Mike

[Browncow75]

Thanks for the input fellas. I just wondered if the Red Cross's coming up for sale might be the "spark" that ignites a newfound interest in T207 back collecting. I wasnt collecting vintage in the early '90's when you could still pick up T206 rare backs for a song. Just wondering if anyone thinks this might be the "calm before the storm". I guess we will just have to wait and see! I might just quietly become one of those "speculators" I hear so much about!

[philliesphan]

How rare are T207 blank backs. Do collectors till desire them? I've got one...

[Bridwell]

The blank back T207 is fairly common, believe it or not. A guy on ebay sold about 50 blank backs about 5-6 years ago. Not sure where he got so many from. The blank back cards I've seen are all from the Recruit class so having a blank back of a Broadleaf/Cycle player would be much more valuable.

The Cycle backs seem to be much more rare than Broadleaf, but only seem to command a premium of 10-15% when sold. The Napoleon backs are much more rare than Recruit, but only seem to command a premium of perhaps 20% over a Recruit. Anonymous backs pricing is all over the place. Some sell for the same as a Recruit, while others sell for 3X.

I agree with Mike that collectors try and complete a set, so the bidding can go crazy to get a card that is rarely seen.

[frohme]

I agree with Ron on the relative commonness of the blank backs - they're much more common than I thought when I first started collecting T207. You don't see them everyday, but they're common enough that most that want one have an opportunity.

One other thought on the jump in valuation based on back, speculative or not. I think there's a big difference in the starting point when compared to T206. Rare backed commons being had relatively cheaply in T206 not so long ago meant (and I'm guessing, because I was also not collecting then) in the low 10's of dollars, and now they're many times that? Maybe an influx of more collectors or speculators will change that, and there'll be more upside potential. Given the relative interest in T207 - many just can't get past the design - I can't see a bandwagon of folks flocking to the set to make a rare-back run on T207 likely for a variety of reasons:

• For the T207's - even in the tough economy - Broadleaf class cards will often start *way* above what a lot of people will pay, so big upside is tough - margin through bulk is hard work, and there aren't that many cards (or interested parties).

• At the end of the day, all four Broadleaf class (BL, Anon3, Anon25, and Cycle) backs have the same sets of player/poses - they all appear with all 50 cards, likely all 51 if you include the Lewis variation). There's not as much innate interest generated in that, when compared to the mysteries of T206.

• Other than Broadleaf, they have similar distributions, though Broadleaf is probably 2-3 times more common than the others.

• In general, all those cards are tough, significantly moreso than most Recruit cards. "Rareness" comes along for the ride - variations in that are moot.

• T207s are generally perceived to be much tougher - in general - than T206, whether or not that is numbers produced (likely), relative survival rate (?) or whatever, they're simply tough to start with.

I reserve the right to completely wrong on everything I've written., but by simply collecting T207, you're already in minority of the card-collecting population... some would say that enjoyment is its own reward.

[caramelcard]

I think the blank backs came from Frank Ward. Is that right Frank?

There was a lot at one time and not a lot of interest. I still think they're pretty tough but they don't have a strong market.

Folks don't really collect T207s for the backs like they do T206. They collect the fronts. There's a tiny number of crazy individuals that want a master set, but it's mission impossible.

Napoleons had a small renaissance last year, but folks have gone back to minimal interest. I still think they're underrated and would be really hard if a lot of people collected them.

With Cycles and Broadleaf, it also appears to me that Cycles are a little bit harder, but it's hard to gauge when condition and the player on the front come into play.

I'll let Mike and Ron comment on the anonymous backs because I've been too darn lazy to figure those bad boys out.

The Red Cross backs still are gonna be unattainable after this group fades away into the depths of somebody's collection in my opinion.

Rob

[tbob]

I'm one of those nuts who, having completed the T207 set, is after the red Cycle back subset. The interest in these backs have really increased, driving prices up, the last few years. I don't know why because I still think the Anonymous backs are much tougher.