NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:18 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default Help on a Walter Johnson Autograph

Does this Walter Johnson autograph look good?



Thank you.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:22 PM
Smanzari Smanzari is offline
Stefan
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 770
Default

Yea


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:43 AM
Scott Garner's Avatar
Scott Garner Scott Garner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 6,597
Default

Authentic Steve
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-19-2020, 08:09 AM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
Does this Walter Johnson autograph look good?



Thank you.

Steve
I'm wondering if the "1907-1927" might be in his hand, also. There's an unusual amount of separation between his signature and the date, but it looks similar to his numbers to me. If so, I don't remember seeing a signature followed by his pitching years, but it might have been requested by Mr. Gorman.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-19-2020, 10:09 AM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

Thank you all for your thoughts.

The cover was auctioned this morning, and I got it at the opening bid

Hank, I was thinking the same thing on the dates.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox

Last edited by Steve D; 11-19-2020 at 10:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-19-2020, 01:49 PM
Scott Garner's Avatar
Scott Garner Scott Garner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 6,597
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
Thank you all for your thoughts.

The cover was auctioned this morning, and I got it at the opening bid

Hank, I was thinking the same thing on the dates.

Steve
Steve,
Congrats on your win! Hank is correct, the dates look to be written by Walter.
Here is an example of more WaJo handwriting complete with dates
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-24-2020, 12:07 PM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,509
Default

Congratulations on a nice snag. While I would never ever challenge Hank on Walter Johnson's autograph (or almost anything else). I just wanted to put a reminder out there that a lot of people have forgotten and some new collectors have never heard of but in the late 1980s, the hobby was flooded with "signed" Hall of Fame envelopes and black and white Hall of Fame plaques that its believed came from two different sources. They were pretty good fakes and still turn up from time to time, there were literally hundreds and hundreds of them. So be careful with anything but especially with those signed mediums mentioned above. I can be reached at the e-mail below
___________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
___________________________
Or sign in to my Facebook business page here, Informative articles, anecdotes, and-sports related videos, and news
Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/Jim-Stinson...12095200701044

Or sign on to my monthly autograph updates below. Many rarities offered

https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/...mStinsonSports

Last edited by JimStinson; 11-24-2020 at 12:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-24-2020, 12:30 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimStinson View Post
Congratulations on a nice snag. While I would never ever challenge Hank on Walter Johnson's autograph (or almost anything else). I just wanted to put a reminder out there that a lot of people have forgotten and some new collectors have never heard of but in the late 1980s, the hobby was flooded with "signed" Hall of Fame envelopes and black and white Hall of Fame plaques that its believed came from two different sources. They were pretty good fakes and still turn up from time to time, there were literally hundreds and hundreds of them. So be careful with anything but especially with those signed mediums mentioned above. I can be reached at the e-mail below
___________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
___________________________
Or sign in to my Facebook business page here, Informative articles, anecdotes, and-sports related videos, and news
Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/Jim-Stinson...12095200701044

Or sign on to my monthly autograph updates below. Many rarities offered

https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/...mStinsonSports
And I have always, and will always, defer to the real autograph pros like yourself, Jim, or Kevin, or Bill, or Richard, or Rich, etc., when it comes to my grandfather or anybody else. Having seen such a variety of his signatures that I knew to be good, and not being an expert in autography (?), I am reluctant to pass judgement on all but the most obvious forgeries, and if pressed, will always preface my decision with "If I had to guess one way or the other..." In this instance, you'll notice I didn't address the autograph itself, but rather noted that the numbers struck me as similar to others of his I have seen. It would be natural to see that as bolstering the case for the authenticity of the whole, but on the other hand, I suppose that if these forgery artists can simulate a really good WaJo, replicating his numerals wouldn't seem to be that great a challenge. I am curious: what do you think of this piece, Jim?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-24-2020, 12:38 PM
Lordstan's Avatar
Lordstan Lordstan is offline
M@rk V3l@rd3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,754
Default

It is interesting as i think the auto and the numbers look like they were in the same hand, imo authentic, but the "Washington Senators" part seems to be in a different hand.
I wonder if the person wrote the team name first and the Johnson sugned above it and added the numbers below.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress).
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy

Other interests/sets/collectibles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums

My for sale or trade photobucket album
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-24-2020, 02:55 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordstan View Post
It is interesting as i think the auto and the numbers look like they were in the same hand, imo authentic, but the "Washington Senators" part seems to be in a different hand.
I wonder if the person wrote the team name first and the Johnson sugned above it and added the numbers below.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
I think you've got it. He mailed it to Walter with the team name already written. I'm guessing he asked Walter to include the playing years, and the only place to put it was below that.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-24-2020, 03:42 PM
Klrdds Klrdds is offline
K&v!/\/ R@g$d@/3
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: GA
Posts: 1,090
Default

My first thought upon seeing this is that there appears to be 2 different inks used . The Walter Johnson and the dates appear to me to be the same ink type and in the same hand but the Washington Senators ink seems to be a different type and hue of blue and written in a different hand.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-24-2020, 06:20 PM
Caseyatbat's Avatar
Caseyatbat Caseyatbat is offline
Casey Melchionno
member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 130
Default

I think its same ink and all done in Walter's hand. I do agree the Washington Senators appears a bit darker, but I believe that is because he signed his name faster because he is used to signing his name more so than writing Washington Senators. Dates appear to be same shade etc as signature.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:50 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,509
Default

Hank, My opinion is that all of the Walter Johnson autographs on this page are good. I lean in the direction of what others have posted that the team name is possibly in another hand and that the dates are in W.J. hand although I would not completely rule out the possibility that he wrote the team name also. He wrote a lot of handwritten letters and a quick review of the handwriting on some of those should close the case. Since the slant appears the same.
Also to clarify the fake HOF envelopes I've seen have never included anything except a signature.
___________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:09 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,509
Default

Was able to find this one online. The "Washington Senators looks pretty darn close.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg washingtonsenators.jpg (14.8 KB, 223 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:24 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,509
Default

And....even more, unusual is note the difference in the "S" in Senators and the 2nd "S" in Sept. written seconds later. Same person completely different.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-25-2020, 04:16 AM
TUM301 TUM301 is offline
H Murphy
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western Mass
Posts: 1,183
Default Walter Johnson

Have had this note for a while. Everything looks fine then slight change in the "Washington" and even more so in the "Ball Club". This thread has become quite interesting and informative.
980AAED2-6A3D-4ABF-A23B-162D0D441ABD by Hugh Murphy, on Flickr
__________________
H Murphy Collection https://www.flickr.com/photos/154296763@N05/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:28 AM
JimStinson's Avatar
JimStinson JimStinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,509
Default

Hugh, Look at the separation in yours between the "g" and "t" in Washington. It's the same in the top one. Also, the capital "W"'s are all shaped like grandma's knockers.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-25-2020, 08:19 AM
Bpm0014's Avatar
Bpm0014 Bpm0014 is offline
Brendan Mullen
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,847
Default

“Grandma’s knockers”.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-25-2020, 08:35 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 3,170
Default

Damn Jim, I just spit up my corn flakes all over the computer. Grandma's Knockers? LMAO
__________________
Pride of the Yankees movie project - ongoing
Catfish Hunter Regular Season Win Tickets - 25/224 Post Season 0/9
1919 Black Sox - I'm calling it complete...maybe!
1955 Dodger Autographs...40/43
1934 Gas House Gang Autographs...Complete
1969 Cubs Autographs...Black Cat ticket plus 30/50
1960 Pirates autographs...Complete
1961 Yankees autographs...Complete
1971-1975 A's Playoff/WS roster autos...Complete
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-25-2020, 08:38 AM
Lordstan's Avatar
Lordstan Lordstan is offline
M@rk V3l@rd3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,754
Default

Lol. Grandma's knockers...
Let me say it again, but it is good to have you back.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress).
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy

Other interests/sets/collectibles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums

My for sale or trade photobucket album
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-25-2020, 04:18 PM
TUM301 TUM301 is offline
H Murphy
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Western Mass
Posts: 1,183
Default

Jim is back, back again and that’s good news!
__________________
H Murphy Collection https://www.flickr.com/photos/154296763@N05/
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:57 PM
GrayGhost's Avatar
GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
Scott
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 9,089
Default

Beautiful Walter!
__________________
Baseball is our saving Grace!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-29-2020, 06:09 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

The cover itself is a neat one.

The stamp was officially issued the day before in Cooperstown.
So why does this one have a cachet and look like a first day cover?

On the official first day the only place they were for sale was Cooperstown.
The next day was the first day the stamp was available nationwide.
For a while, stamps were always first for sale in Washington, then later official first days were held, usually in a place somehow related to the topic of the stamp. (a practice that continues, at least ceremonially)

Some old fashioned collectors didn't like this, and for a while some dealers made a bit of money providing "real" first day covers, cancelled on the actual first day of availability and not at some newfangled publicity stunt the day before.

Of course others provided first day covers from other places by being early at the official ceremony and mailing a few from each of various places on their way home.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-30-2020, 10:16 AM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The cover itself is a neat one.

The stamp was officially issued the day before in Cooperstown.
So why does this one have a cachet and look like a first day cover?

On the official first day the only place they were for sale was Cooperstown.
The next day was the first day the stamp was available nationwide.
For a while, stamps were always first for sale in Washington, then later official first days were held, usually in a place somehow related to the topic of the stamp. (a practice that continues, at least ceremonially)

Some old fashioned collectors didn't like this, and for a while some dealers made a bit of money providing "real" first day covers, cancelled on the actual first day of availability and not at some newfangled publicity stunt the day before.

Of course others provided first day covers from other places by being early at the official ceremony and mailing a few from each of various places on their way home.


I did a bit of detective work, and found that the addressee of the envelope, Clyde D. Gorman, was an auditor with the US Dept of the Treasury in the 1940 census, when he was 53 years old. Back in 1917, he was working for the US Dept of Agriculture in Washington DC.

So, he was in DC when Walter Johnson was active. He may have gotten the postmark himself, in the thought that it was the first day the stamp was available in Washington DC (where Walter Johnson pitched), and then sometime later got it signed by Walter. He may have requested Walter annotate his team affiliation to tie his career to Washington DC, and give further legitimacy to the postmark.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, markf31, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
1910 E90-2 Gibson, Hyatt, Maddox

Last edited by Steve D; 11-30-2020 at 10:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-30-2020, 10:50 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
I did a bit of detective work, and found that the addressee of the envelope, Clyde D. Gorman, was an auditor with the US Dept of the Treasury in the 1940 census, when he was 53 years old. Back in 1917, he was working for the US Dept of Agriculture in Washington DC.

So, he was in DC when Walter Johnson was active. He may have gotten the postmark himself, in the thought that it was the first day the stamp was available in Washington DC (where Walter Johnson pitched), and then sometime later got it signed by Walter. He may have requested Walter annotate his team affiliation to tie his career to Washington DC, and give further legitimacy to the postmark.

Steve
That may be. some of the cachet makers sold blank envelopes, some didn't.
It's also possible the maker of the cover had it sent to Mr Gorman, which was typical.
It's also possible the maker was Mr Gorman, many of the cachet makers of the era had day jobs.
I'm hardly an expert on who made what cachet, but there is a first day cover society that could probably answer that easily.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 PM.


ebay GSB