Bill Mastro's upcoming sentencing - Page 4

Peter_Spaeth · #**151** 07-12-2015, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

"Most likely"??? Do you have insider info?

Strange post by JC, indeed. Most peculiar, mama.

jcmtiger · #**152** 07-12-2015, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Lethal injection and/or restitution!

Yes hang anyone who commits a crime. I had a neighbor who killed his wife by slamming her ahead against a pole in the basement and stored her body in a freezer for 3 years. . He spent 7 years in jail. Is that enough, I don't think so, so I don't think Mastro needs a harsher sentence just because we collect cards. Think about it.

Joe

wonkaticket · #**153** 07-13-2015, 03:50 AM

Hmmm so because he didn't kill and store a woman in a freezer, collectors/victims shouldn't expect more in terms of a sentence for his crimes.

Here's what I'll "think about" what possible medications you must have forgot to take to type the above.

Peter_Spaeth · #**154** 07-13-2015, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Hmmm so because he didn't kill and store a woman in a freezer, collectors/victims shouldn't expect more in terms of a sentence for his crimes.

Here's what I'll "think about" what possible medications you must have forgot to take to type the above.

.

calvindog · #**155** 07-13-2015, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Yes hang anyone who commits a crime. I had a neighbor who killed his wife by slamming her ahead against a pole in the basement and stored her body in a freezer for 3 years. . He spent 7 years in jail. Is that enough, I don't think so, so I don't think Mastro needs a harsher sentence just because we collect cards. Think about it.

Joe

Some thoughts:

1) there's a happy medium in between a life sentence and a few months in prison with no restitution paid to his victims and his claim, on the very day he pleaded guilty, that his victims were unfairly critical of him.

2) Probably time to move.

3) Um, you didn't receive a gift from Bill, did you?

Leon · #**156** 07-13-2015, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Some thoughts:

1) there's a happy medium in between a life sentence and a few months in prison with no restitution paid to his victims and his claim, on the very day he pleaded guilty, that his victims were unfairly critical of him.

2) Probably time to move.

3) Um, you didn't receive a gift from Bill, did you?

It's good you aren't under oath or I might have believed everything you have said in this thread.

calvindog · #**157** 07-13-2015, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

It's good you aren't under oath or I might have believed everything you have said in this thread.

I'm a lawyer and not a criminal defendant who had to take an oath prior to pleading guilty. There's a difference.

Leon · #**158** 07-13-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm a lawyer and not a criminal defendant who had to take an oath prior to pleading guilty.

You are a bold faced liar too.

calvindog · #**159** 07-13-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

You are a bold faced liar too.

Hey, don't blame me for holding up a mirror to your face and forcing you to eat your own words. You complain about fraud in the hobby and yet when push comes to shove you've defended Mastro and Allen for years. For years. There's not a single word I've ever said about Mastro or Allen that is not the truth and we both know it.

Leon · #**160** 07-13-2015, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Hey, don't blame me for holding up a mirror to your face and forcing you to eat your own words. You complain about fraud in the hobby and yet when push comes to shove you've defended Mastro and Allen for years. For years. There's not a single word I've ever said about Mastro or Allen that is not the truth and we both know it.

I* am going to leave it alone Jeff. I am not defending anyone. I wasn't writing a letter before your badgering of me, or after the few trinkets given to me (which I won't have anymore after today). Nothing swayed me ..... I have confidence in the judge making a good decision. I am sorry you don't.

And absolutely both of those guys will get what's coming to them. Restitution should have been a part of each plea...for that part I think it was unfair.

and lastly, your quoting me is not a big deal. I WAS going to write a letter at one time but changed my mind due to several factors, not just Nash....I hope I am allowed to change my mind?

calvindog · #**161** 07-13-2015, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I* am going to leave it alone Jeff. I am not defending anyone. I wasn't writing a letter before your badgering of me, or after the few trinkets given to me (which I won't have anymore after today). Nothing swayed me ..... I have confidence in the judge making a good decision. I am sorry you don't.

I have tremendous confidence in the judge making the right decision. But we as victims -- yes, you're a victim -- can submit information to the judge so that he has a better understanding of who Bill Mastro is. The judge doesn't know Mastro and Allen the way his victims do. We complain on Net 54 constantly about being defrauded, here's the one chance we all have to be heard and put our money where our mouths are.

Leon · #**162** 07-13-2015, 08:41 AM

I venture to guess I do more than 99.9% of the people in the hobby (you are right there too) to weed out fraud. I can't stand it. Not sure if you have ever seen where I have said, "if you are doing something bad in the hobby I will be your worst friend", but I have said it many times. I have helped numerous authorities to work fraud cases in the hobby....Secret Service, Dept. Of Homeland Security, Postal Agents, Postal Inspectors, local authorities etc.....for various reasons I am not writing this one letter.....that is it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

I have tremendous confidence in the judge making the right decision. But we as victims -- yes, you're a victim -- can submit information to the judge so that he has a better understanding of who Bill Mastro is. The judge doesn't know Mastro and Allen the way his victims do. We complain on Net 54 constantly about being defrauded, here's the one chance we all have to be heard and put our money where our mouths are.

calvindog · #**163** 07-13-2015, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I venture to guess I do more than 99.9% of the people in the hobby (you are right there too) to weed out fraud. I can't stand it. Not sure if you have ever seen where I have said, "if you are doing something bad in the hobby I will be your worst friend", but I have said it many times. I have helped numerous authorities to work fraud cases in the hobby....Secret Service, Dept. Of Homeland Security, Postal Agents, Postal Inspectors, local authorities etc.....for various reasons I am not writing this one letter.....that is it.

Leon, you received a gift from the biggest fraud the hobby has ever known and you said it "was appreciated." And you made it clear on this thread that you were considering writing a letter in SUPPORT of Mastro. Doesn't sound like you're quite his "worst friend."

Leon · #**164** 07-13-2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Leon, you received a gift from the biggest fraud the hobby has ever known and you said it "was appreciated." And you made it clear on this thread that you were considering writing a letter in SUPPORT of Mastro. Doesn't sound like you're quite his "worst friend."

As I said, I changed my mind. I suppose people can do that, right? I probably am not his worst friend. Maybe you are? I can't stand what he did but I can also separate what someone does from who they are. Those guys will pay for what they did. My letter, one way or the other, isn't going to change the plea deals. Did you write a letter?

And yes, I said it was appreciated but in retrospect, maybe not so much. That is why after today the few little things he sent I will no longer have.

calvindog · #**165** 07-13-2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

As I said, I changed my mind. I suppose people can do that, right? I probably am not his worst friend. Maybe you are? I can't stand what he did but I can also separate what someone does from who they are. Those guys will pay for what they did. My letter, one way or the other, isn't going to change the plea deals. Did you write a letter?

And yes, I said it was appreciated but in retrospect, maybe not so much. That is why after today the few little things he sent I will no longer have.

Of course I'm writing a letter. And no one has ever said that writing a letter will change their plea deals. Where did you get that from? The judge has discretion at sentencing and many factors come into play including character letters about the defendant. You can be sure Bill will have dozens if not hundreds of letter supporting him and not discussing his fraud.

Lastly, of course people can change their minds. I've always appreciated how you changed your mind about Mike O'Keeffe, the NY Daily News reporter who you and others blasted for his purportedly unfair coverage of the Mastro fraud. And how you changed your mind about me after we bickered constantly out here years ago when I was loudly critical of Mastro and Allen -- and I was being roundly criticized for it.

And lastly, I'm not Bill Mastro's worst friend -- I was never his friend at all. Just his victim.

Leon · #**166** 07-13-2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Of course I'm writing a letter. And no one has ever said that writing a letter will change their plea deals. Where did you get that from? The judge has discretion at sentencing and many factors come into play including character letters about the defendant. You can be sure Bill will have dozens if not hundreds of letter supporting him and not discussing his fraud.

Lastly, of course people can change their minds. I've always appreciated how you changed your mind about Mike O'Keeffe, the NY Daily News reporter who you and others blasted for his purportedly unfair coverage of the Mastro fraud. And how you changed your mind about me after we bickered constantly out here years ago when I was loudly critical of Mastro and Allen -- and I was being roundly criticized for it.

And lastly, I'm not Bill Mastro's worst friend -- I was never his friend at all. Just his victim.

and I always appreciate how half your clients are card doctors...but then that is how you make your money. The more bad people in the hobby the more you make. Do you give out business cards after these threads? Since I haven't done anything wrong in the hobby I guess I don't need a business card.

calvindog · #**167** 07-13-2015, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

and I always appreciate how half your clients are card doctors...but then that is how you make your money. The more bad people in the hobby the more you make. Do you give out business cards after these threads? Since I haven't done anything wrong in the hobby I guess I don't need a business card.

How do you know that my clients haven't all cooperated with law enforcement in their investigation of fraud in the hobby? Certainly it's public record that I have represented people who have actually formally cooperated against fraudsters in the hobby.

As for me representing people in the hobby, it's a tiny fraction of my income. Half my clients? You're dreaming. And maybe you shouldn't be critical of what I do for a living because when you were shitting your pants last year you managed to pick up the phone and call me for free advice.

autograf · #**168** 07-13-2015, 09:08 AM

Leon · #**169** 07-13-2015, 09:08 AM

Maybe they all cooperated, I don't know.....great if they did. Half might have been too big of a number as you are right, I don't know all of your clients, only some of them. You are a good lawyer, I will give you that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

How do you know that my clients haven't all cooperated with law enforcement in their investigation of fraud in the hobby? Certainly it's public record that I have represented people who have actually formally cooperated against fraudsters in the hobby.

As for me representing people in the hobby, it's a tiny fraction of my income. Half my clients? You're dreaming. And maybe you shouldn't be critical of what I do for a living because when you were shitting your pants last year you managed to pick up the phone and call me for advice.

Peter_Spaeth · #**170** 07-13-2015, 09:12 AM

That people may have cooperated does not mean they themselves did not commit fraud, does it?

calvindog · #**171** 07-13-2015, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That people may have cooperated does not mean they themselves did not commit fraud, does it?

Of course not. But are you suggesting that if I represented someone who committed a prior fraud but then cooperated with the government that I'm enabling their past fraud? Or am I in fact doing quite the opposite, helping to put an end to fraud?

Here's what I never did: shill bid on my friends' Mastro lots and then communicated with the Mastro folks about sending the lots I won back to the consignor.

Peter_Spaeth · #**172** 07-13-2015, 09:18 AM

You protest too much, who suggested anything about enablement of past fraud? I was merely pointing out that cooperating with the government doesn't mean people are necessarily honorable, which seemed implicit in your response to Leon.

bnorth · #**173** 07-13-2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That people may have cooperated does not mean they themselves did not commit fraud, does it?

Cooperation is what I hate worst about our legal system. If someone is a complete piece of garbage they can get a plea deal for screwing over others(usually friends). Yes the others did something wrong also and should be punished but the piece of garbage that turned them in to get the plea deal should get the pleasure of being the play toy in prison.

Joshchisox08 · #**174** 07-13-2015, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autograf

+1

What did I walk into ???

Peter_Spaeth · #**175** 07-13-2015, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Cooperation is what I hate worst about our legal system. If someone is a complete piece of garbage they can get a plea deal for screwing over others(usually friends). Yes the others did something wrong also and should be punished but the piece of garbage that turned them in to get the plea deal should get the pleasure of being the play toy in prison.

They might also get immunity. But that is, for better or worse, a judgment call prosecutors sometimes need to make. I don't have a quarrel with that, in the abstract.

calvindog · #**176** 07-13-2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You protest too much, who suggested anything about enablement of past fraud? I was merely pointing out that cooperating with the government doesn't mean people are necessarily honorable, which seemed implicit in your response to Leon.

I'm not protesting too much at all. He clearly claimed that I represent card doctors as half my practice (false -- hobby fraud is about 1 percent of my practice) and that the more bad people in the hobby, the more money I make, suggesting that I'm an enabler of fraud. Maybe I'm not quite the right guy to go after as being a fraud profiteer in this hobby. Just a thought.

Peter_Spaeth · #**177** 07-13-2015, 09:23 AM

So what percentage is it?

Leon · #**178** 07-13-2015, 09:24 AM

I disagree. I think we need to keep talking about what you do and who you do it for Jeff. I think I can name at least 5 of your clients. Shall I?

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm not protesting too much at all. He clearly claimed that I represent card doctors as half my practice (false -- hobby fraud is about 1 percent of my practice) and that the more bad people in the hobby, the more money I make, suggesting that I'm an enabler of fraud. Maybe I'm not quite the right guy to go after as being a fraud profiteer in this hobby. Just a thought.

calvindog · #**179** 07-13-2015, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I disagree. I think we need to keep talking about what you do and who you do it for Jeff. I think I can name at least 5 of your clients. Shall I?

Sure and would you mind if I discuss what you called me for last year? Because you would be on my roster.

Leon · #**180** 07-13-2015, 09:29 AM

I won't name names as that would be even more uncool than you have been to me.
Lets just say many on this board find you very hypocritical. As I said, I think you are a good lawyer and that is why I called you. But your incessant badgering of me is quite over the top. Keep leading the charge but leave me out of it on this case. These guys will get their just dues, I am very confident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Sure and would you mind if I discuss what you called me for last year? Because you would be on my roster.

calvindog · #**181** 07-13-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I won't name names as that would be even more uncool than you have been to me.
Lets just say many on this board find you very hypocritical. As I said, I think you are a good lawyer and that is why I called you. But your incessant badgering of me is quite over the top. Keep leading the charge but leave me out of it on this case. These guys will get their just dues, I am very confident.

The truth is I honestly don't care if many on this board find me hypocritical. Being a defense lawyer means you occasionally offend -- I don't care. I have ethical and legal obligations when I represent clients which are not always completely understood or appreciated by people. And I can say the same about you. I suspect if you knew how many people on Net 54 find you to be very hypocritical your jaw would drop -- and none of them are vile pr*cks.

Leon · #**182** 07-13-2015, 09:34 AM

I make many unpopular decisions, comes with the territory. I am sure there are quite a few on this board who don't care for me. With over 6500 registered members there are a lot of opinions. I respect their right to not like me or think I am hypocritical. It's America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

The truth is I honestly don't care if many on this board find me hypocritical. Being a defense lawyer means you occasionally offend -- I don't care. And I can say the same about you. I suspect if you knew how many people on Net 54 find you to be very hypocritical your jaw would drop.

calvindog · #**183** 07-13-2015, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I respect their right to not like me or think I am hypocritical. It's America.

See? All these years later and we agree on something.

Leon · #**184** 07-13-2015, 09:38 AM

Is it time for lunch yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

See? All these years later and we agree on something.

calvindog · #**185** 07-13-2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Is it time for lunch yet?

22 more minutes. I've become a vegetarian in the last 10 days and am constantly hungry.

Leon · #**186** 07-13-2015, 09:41 AM

You have to have meat in your diet. We didn't get to the top of the food chain by eating carrots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

22 more minutes. I've become a vegetarian in the last 10 days and am constantly hungry.

calvindog · #**187** 07-13-2015, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

You have to have meat in your diet. We didn't get to the top of the food chain by eating carrots.

Yes but eating it for 912 days in a row is apparently frowned upon by the AMA. Time to go the other way.

frankbmd · #**188** 07-13-2015, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yes but eating it for 912 days in a row is apparently frowned upon by the AMA. Time to go the other way.

Please, don't drag me into this until I finish my cheeseburger.

autograf · #**189** 07-13-2015, 09:58 AM

So the rest of us are okay to go to lunch and not miss any of this brouhaha.....? Meat or otherwise?

Peter_Spaeth · #**190** 07-13-2015, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Please, don't drag me into this until I finish my cheeseburger.

How did a real doctor get mixed up in a discussion about card doctors?

Joshchisox08 · #**191** 07-13-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Please, don't drag me into this until I finish my cheeseburger.

Can I have a bite ?

BengoughingForAwhile · #**192** 07-13-2015, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How did a real doctor get mixed up in a discussion about card doctors?

Frank doesn't trim cards, he just trims cardboard to go around the cards.

Peter_Spaeth · #**193** 07-13-2015, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cubs1969

Frank doesn't trim cards, he just trims cardboard to go around the cards.

He probably won't need a lawyer then.

Bicem · #**194** 07-13-2015, 11:54 AM

Writing letter now. There's really no legit excuse not to in my opinion.

wonkaticket · #**195** 07-13-2015, 11:58 AM

Leon,

I have to side a bit with Jeff on this one. For years you and others have been on here defending Mastro & Allen on a personal level or from the likes of O'Keefe and others who have been critical of these guys.

Each and every time you have kicked the can down the road...if they get caught I'll change my mind, if they get found guilty I'll change my mind then I'll write that letter no excuse for crime etc. Now it's I got a nice gift from Bill unexpected and appreciated, but now you've changed your tune on that and it's I'm it sending back. Hopefully to Bill not to Heritage as an internet only lot (kidding).

Look I get what it may be like to have a friend turn out to be a con man it has to be hard to wrestle with that torn feeling. However all that aside if you do really stand for what you say....then all bets should be off.

Here's what's disappointing to me about your stance. I'm going to be direct with you as most on here won't because they view you as some hobby god, or from fear of getting the boot. You call Jeff a hypocrite but be careful you may be just as guilty of hypocrisy as him.

You preach about ethics and fraud, yet take and publicize a gift from one of the biggest frauds the hobby has ever known. Sort of like blasting evil dictators then grabbing dinner and show with Stalin and posting selfies.

You beat up on folks for pimping their auctions/items but you not so much. You want people's names in their posts so they are on record for their statements. Yet in the Saco River thread after you jumped the gun and said some nasty things you locked and hid the thread.Then there's the whole Peck & Snyder card mess that's traveling the hobby rumor circles of you potentially having a card connected to Mastro that may have been stolen from the NYPL. Are you aware of this? If so I haven't seen you say much about that on here? Seems to me for a guy who is doing 99.9% more than others to clean up the hobby you would want to address or dispel any doubt to your items validity if there's any truth to the rumors. I know I would want the air cleared. My point Leon is these things could also be viewed as hypocrisy not to beat you up.

At the end of the day your choice write a letter or not nobody can make you it's your decision I respect that. But I do have to wonder why someone as outspoken and as passionate about this hobby would choose to be silent on something so important.

Cheers,

John

P.S. Leon if you don't write a letter you should at least have to give back your FBI windbreaker.

Leon · #**196** 07-13-2015, 12:21 PM

John- just like everyone, you have a right to your opinion. There is nothing you have said that I am not aware of. The Peck and Snyder card has been examined and no mark is discernible. Just like it says in the description.

"There is surface marring or erasure on the back in the same upper quadrant. This could be a library stamp, a collector stamp or the mark of some retailer."

It has been examined and whatever was erased can't be made out with any known equipment today. It has been tested. I only know where I got it and have an invoice for it. If you know more please let us know. I know the provenance of it for the last 25 yrs and that is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Leon,

I have to side a bit with Jeff on this one. For years you and others have been on here defending Mastro & Allen on a personal level or from the likes of O'Keefe and others who have been critical of these guys.

Each and every time you have kicked the can down the road...if they get caught I'll change my mind, if they get found guilty I'll change my mind then I'll write that letter no excuse for crime etc. Now it's I got a nice gift from Bill unexpected and appreciated, but now you've changed your tune on that and it's I'm it sending back. Hopefully to Bill not to Heritage as an internet only lot (kidding).

Look I get what it may be like to have a friend turn out to be a con man it has to be hard to wrestle with that torn feeling. However all that aside if you do really stand for what you say....then all bets should be off.

Here's what's disappointing to me about your stance. I'm going to be direct with you as most on here won't because they view you as some hobby god, or from fear of getting the boot. You call Jeff a hypocrite but be careful you may be just as guilty of hypocrisy as him.

You preach about ethics and fraud, yet take and publicize a gift from one of the biggest frauds the hobby has ever known. Sort of like blasting evil dictators then grabbing dinner and show with Stalin and posting selfies.

You beat up on folks for pimping their auctions/items but you not so much. You want people's names in their posts so they are on record for their statements. Yet in the Saco River thread after you jumped the gun and said some nasty things you locked and hid the thread.Then there's the whole Peck & Snyder card mess that's traveling the hobby rumor circles of you potentially having a card connected to Mastro that may have been stolen from the NYPL. Are you aware of this? If so I haven't seen you say much about that on here? Seems to me for a guy who is doing 99.9% more than others to clean up the hobby you would want to address or dispel any doubt to your items validity if there's any truth to the rumors. I know I would want the air cleared. My point Leon is these things could also be viewed as hypocrisy not to beat you up.

At the end of the day your choice write a letter or not nobody can make you it's your decision I respect that. But I do have to wonder why someone as outspoken and as passionate about this hobby would choose to be silent on something so important.

Cheers,

John

P.S. Leon if you don't write a letter you should at least have to give back your FBI windbreaker.

calvindog · #**197** 07-13-2015, 01:43 PM

We're all famous!

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=39278

wonkaticket · #**198** 07-13-2015, 02:04 PM

"There is surface marring or erasure on the back in the same upper quadrant. This could be a library stamp, a collector stamp or the mark of some retailer."

Forgive me Leon. Perhaps I'm reading into things but why would Heritage go out of their way to mention "library mark" as the first possible option for the removed blemish on the back of this card? Especially for a card that you say has past the scrutiny of review by whom I assume to be the proper authorities.

I would guess I may have a few cards that would have what an auction company may describe as "unidentifiable blemishes" but I wouldn't expect "library mark" as the first possible speculation. Only reason why I can think of is. If I were aware or the auction company was aware the item in question had potential issues. Otherwise why speculate?

Anyways enough about this card, my posts were more to say lots of things can be viewed as hypocrisy. Also your silence and back and forth support of these guys is troubling and confusing to me. However as said its my opinion and your entitled to do as you see fit. I may question the motives but I can reset your decision.

Cheers,

John

wonkaticket · #**199** 07-13-2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

We're all famous!

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=39278

Ughhhh....

atx840 · #**200** 07-13-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

It has been examined and whatever was erased can't be made out with any known equipment today.

Let's figure it out.

Definitely erased, oval in shape and I believe the word library.

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