1966 Topps High's - Any uncut sheets or partial sheets known?

[Kevvyg1026]

Bill. Can you post a better scan of the back of the krill card?

[BillP]

I'll try haven't done that before.

[bb66]

Only 8 card locations are unknown ! Really appreciate you guys getting this to where it is. Thanks

[Kevvyg1026]

For those who haven't followed this thread in great detail, the 8 cards which still require placement are: 517, 528, 532, 538, 552, 556, 566, & 590. Five of the unknown cards reside in the row headed by Perranowski, one card is in row headed by Cards rookies (i.e., Hoerner), and the remaining two cards are at the end of the Jackson/Shirley row.

Based on miscuts, we know that 532/552 are adjacent to each other and that 517 is adjacent to a card containing some blue sky (and is probably at the far right edge). 590 & 566 both have miscuts that are severely diamond cut, so they might not be at an edge. And 556 (Queen) is above a regular card, not a Mgr or RC card.

[Kevvyg1026]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Bill. Can you post a better scan of the back of the krill card?

- meant Oliver, not Krill

[BillP]

Haven't forgot will try this week. I'm not good with these though.

Been looking for more clues, haven't found any lately.

[Kevvyg1026]

There is also this miscut which suggests that 538 (Allen) is adjacent to the checklist (517). So, if 517 is at an edge (highly likely), this means that the combo 538/517 is either at the end of the Perranowski row or at the end of the Shirley row.

66 bob allen 1.jpg

[quitcrab]

That is some crazy detective work ! I am so impressed by the progress of this thread. Good luck completing the last couple cards.

[BillP]

Finally something. While I wait to figure out how to scan the high I bought a while back, there is a miscut 569 and 556 on ebay under greg morris. Bidding on both, however the 556 Queen has a hit of the card below on the back. To me it looks like oliver below queen, but sleuths weigh in.

[JollyElm]

This is comparing the visible sliver to a #541 also being offered by GM, and it doesn't seem to be match (I checked a whole bunch of other ones, too), but there are enough bumps and dots in the black area (and that single black 'line' presumably over "YEAR" in the pink area) to hopefully lead to a clear match with another card...

1966geneoliver541comp.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

It’s not Gene Oliver, the Oliver always has two distinctive bumps on the left edge of the peach color area, especially the bottom corner which protrudes out noticeably.

[BillP]

Got it. Also the miscut #569 in the same auction is also in play. looking for the card to it's immediate right on the sheet and this card presents some hints. For #556, there are only a few options here of missing places it could go, that's if all others are properly placed. On thing, since the G Jackson row is at the bottom of one sheet but is also not at the bottom of another sheet then I could still be in that row.
For the longest time I've been fixated on the checklist placing and still haven.t got much on that card. Glad to finally find some clues on Queen.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

This is comparing the visible sliver to a #541 also being offered by GM, and it doesn't seem to be match (I checked a whole bunch of other ones, too), but there are enough bumps and dots in the black area (and that single black 'line' presumably over "YEAR" in the pink area) to hopefully lead to a clear match with another card...

Attachment 468420

I think it is #590 Bill Skowron under Queen. Can you do a mash up of the miscut Queen and a 66 Skowron from Greg Morris Cards to see if it's a match?

[BillP]

i think your right. how about the right edge of #569?

[JollyElm]

I think it's a swing and a miss, unfortunately...

1966SKOWRON590comp.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Dagnabbit. I need a mulligan. Dave Nicholson? ETA, on the other two candidates, Cuellar and Mahaffey, the stat lines don't extend far enough. If Nicholson checks out then Bob Allen and the Checklist can be inserted on the bottom row as the last two cards.

[Kevvyg1026]

Queen could be in row B (Perranowski) and be above 598 (Perry), 569 (McFarlane), 570 (Mahaffey), 576 (Nicholson) as well as one, as yet unidentified card.

It could also be in row G (Shirley) and be above two, as yet unidentified cards (so 532 is still a possibility, as is Cuellar, Allen, Skowron).

And, it is also possible that Queen is in row C (Hoerner) and could be above Sullivan.

[bb66]

Cliff-- i believe you have it right on Nicholson !!!

[JollyElm]

The matching black blip(s) above "Throws" (which are even more apparent in other Nicholsons I looked at on eBay) and the extended 'year' line (not to mention the matching size of the salmon colored box) are good indicators that DING! DING! DING! we gotta winnah...

1966nicholson576comp.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

That puts Bob Allen and the #517 Checklist in the last two slots on the Bart Shirley/Grant Jackson row. ETA, that also puts Monteagudo and Tebbetts in two of those three consecutive open slots on the Perranoski row, I believe Monteagudo is to the left of Tebbetts if I remember correctly.

[Kevvyg1026]

Scouring through prior posts, you did mention earlier that the combo is 532/552 so 532 is to the left of Tebbetts

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Scouring through prior posts, you did mention earlier that the combo is 532/552 so 532 is to the left of Tebbetts

Your post in #321 establishes that Monteagudo is to the left of Tebbetts based on the Tebbetts miscut.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BillP

i think your right. how about the right edge of #569?

All Skowron cards have a stray line from the artwork that goes outside the box. There appears to be a matching stray line on the McFarlane scan but I don't think the scan is good enough to confirm. Maybe JollyElm can do a mashup of the McFarlane miscut and a Greg Morris Skowron card to see if they line up? It would be best for someone to win the McFarlane card and then put it next to a Skowron card and see if it lines up.

[Kevvyg1026]

This miscut of 552 is currently on ebay. Just a hint of the orange back of a card can be discerned. To me, it matched 566 Cuellar, and if true, then that would put 566 in the spot between McFarlane & Mahaffey, with 532 above McFarlane & 552 above Cuellar. However, my graphics ability is limited, so this would need someone to confirm.

1966_552_edge_back.jpg

[JollyElm]

Since the rest of the black is thick and rich, I think the 'Skowron Blip' on the McFarlane card is just an unrelated gray area, or toning or something, so I don't believe it to be a match...

1966SKOWRON590comp02.jpg

How funny is it that on the back of Moose's card, although he won multiple championships during more than a decade in the majors, the highlight they chose to include harkened all the way back to his minor league days??

[BillP]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

All Skowron cards have a stray line from the artwork that goes outside the box. There appears to be a matching stray line on the McFarlane scan but I don't think the scan is good enough to confirm. Maybe JollyElm can do a mashup of the McFarlane miscut and a Greg Morris Skowron card to see if they line up? It would be best for someone to win the McFarlane card and then put it next to a Skowron card and see if it lines up.

ill bid on these and hopefully learn to scan

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BillP

ill bid on these and hopefully learn to scan

JollyElm is right, it’s a stain or a blemish on the McFarlane miscut in almost the exact spot where the stray line is on the Skowron. That means it has to be Cuellar or Gonder but I don’t see any irregularities that would pinpoint a certain card.

[Kevvyg1026]

Check out the Tebbetts miscut on ebay (shown in post 424). Tebbetts must be above either an unidentified card (528, 566, or 590) or above Mahaffey (570). If Tebbetts is above Cuellar, then that would put 532, Monteaugue, above McFarlane.

[Cliff Bowman]

A miscut Cuellar is on eBay, maybe someone can figure out which card is below it. It's not Gaylord Perry because the two stat lines would be showing. ETA, it can't be John Sullivan either, Sullivan has a distinctive bulge on the upper left corner of his salmon stat box, so that means it has to Orlando McFarlane or Art Mahaffey, I believe.

[Kevvyg1026]

Pretty hard to distinguish between whether Cuellar is above 569 (McFarlane), 570 (Mahaffey), or 597 (Sullivan) with just that partial shown. However, the black stats lines on both the McFarlane card and the Sullivan card run closer to the pink background edge than those on the Mahaffey card, so because we see none of the lines in the pink, perhaps it is Mahaffey underneath Cuellar.

In addition, there is a severely diamond cut Cuellar card, so that may mean the Cuellar card is close to an edge. If so, then Cuellar is in the 10 slot, above Mahaffey and with Queen to its right. Then Monteagudo and Tebbetts would occupy the 8th and 9th slot respectively in that same row (Perranowski row).

If true, then only Skowron and Gonder require placement. One would be above Perry everywhere in the sheet while the other would be above Sullivan everywhere in the sheet.

[mikemb]

Nothing to add but tomorrow is the 3rd anniversary of the start of this thread.

This has been one of my most enjoyable threads and thanks to all who have contributed in some way.

It's like trying to put together a 50 year old jigsaw puzzle without the picture of the completed puzzle.

Mike

[G1911]

Originally Posted by mikemb

Nothing to add but tomorrow is the 3rd anniversary of the start of this thread.

This has been one of my most enjoyable threads and thanks to all who have contributed in some way.

It's like trying to put together a 50 year old jigsaw puzzle without the picture of the completed puzzle.

Mike

Amen to this. Thanks to all who have helped and pooled group resources. So, so close to the complete layout

[king11]

Here is a miscut of Raymond, where it appears the card to the left has a pink team name and the pattern matches up with Gonder?

[king11]

I also found a miscut of Skowron (not sure if this was already posted) where the card to the left appears to be from a gray-colored team name, and the pattern of the card looks like it could be Birdie Tebbetts.

[JollyElm]

Enjoy that chicken dinner!!!!

tebbettsskowron.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

That should do it then, the Perranoski row has Gonder, Raymond, Monteagudo, Tebbetts, Skowron, Queen, and then Cuellar the missing card on the Hoerner row between McFarlane and Mahaffey. ETA, Allen and the checklist the last two cards on the Grant Jackson row.

[cardinalcollector]

Originally Posted by king11

Here is a miscut of Raymond, where it appears the card to the left has a pink team name and the pattern matches up with Gonder?

Interesting side note. This is an infamous card of Raymond, his fly was open and nobody caught it

Very impressive research on this great thread gentlemen. Congrats.

[bb66]

Thanks so much to all the guys involved in this research--G1911 for starting it. Kudos to Cliff and Kevvy for taking it and running with it. Incredible that so many mysteries about this 7th series have been solved! I believe early in the thread G1911 posted all the supposed Short Print cards listed in the Standard Catalog.Now we see the differences between that and what this new research has revealed. #533 Jerry Adair, 535 Willie Davis, 550 Willie McCovey, 554 Jim Northrup, 571 Dave Roberts,& 580 Billy Williams were all listed as SP cards in the catalog. Now I believe those five can be replaced by #527 Julio Navarro, 539 Astros Rookies, 546 Dwight Siebler, 562 Russ Snyder, 563 Twins Rookies, &588 Athletics Rookies.This new info helps explain the centering problems with certain cards since we now know which ones were located on the ends.
I want to thanks other members ,too for being so diligent. BillP, jmoran19,mikemb,toppcat,JollyElm,stlcardsfan.

[JollyElm]

I believe my last go at the layout was in post #398. If someone can tell me what needs to added (and where, duh!) I will get an update going in due time.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I believe my last go at the layout was in post #398. If someone can tell me what needs to added (and where, duh!) I will get an update going in due time.

My post in #436 should have all of the needed information to finish out the sheet.

[JollyElm]

[Kevvyg1026]

To Jolly Elm,

Cliff's post 436, should fill out the spots missing in the accompanying figure, i.e., the two slits.

Slit A has the Northrup row at top, Slit B has the Taylor row at top.

1966_High_sheet_L.jpg

1966_High_sheet_R.jpg

[BillP]

Great job everyone. Can the final output be turned into a full color printout for a poster or something that could be framed. I for one would like to have it after all this effort.

billp

[bb66]

That looks great JollyElm !!

[BillP]

I was wondering, after all this work did anyone put this out to Beckett or other areas for the final definitive view on SP's and non Sp's? McCovey, Williams, Adair and Northrup still being touted as SP, will others not.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by BillP

I was wondering, after all this work did anyone put this out to Beckett or other areas for the final definitive view on SP's and non Sp's? McCovey, Williams, Adair and Northrup still being touted as SP, will others not.

Kevvyg1026 did reach out to Beckett but I think it's a losing battle. Those places will never give up the SP next to cards like 1965 Topps Lou Brock and 1966 Topps Billy Williams and Willie McCovey. I did fix all of the incorrect ones on TCDB though !

[G1911]

The truth and what hobby publications insist on putting out is rarely one and the same .

[Kevvyg1026]

Cliff & I have worked diligently on other years & series that contain SPs in order to establish the slit print patterns. Some are easier than others to recreate.


For example, we completed several series from 1962, 1963, and 1965, the 5th series from 1966, a couple series from 1968, and are currently working on a couple series from 1969, but the 6th series in 1965, 1966, and 1967 are difficult because we have found only a limited amount of uncut or sufficiently miscut material.

For 1962, the SPs in print guides aligned, but certainly in 1965, they do not. Perhaps one day, the guides will wise up.

[deweyinthehall]

These posts remind me I need to ask these general questions - 1) how do we know the difference between slit As and Bs when looking at any given 11x12 half sheet? 2) When initially printed, slits A and B of any series were attached down the middle, forming essentially a single 22x12 full sheet with a wide white "gutter" down the middle, and they were cut vertically along this "gutter" and fed individually into a cutting machine?

Thanks - I've started compiling my own collection of sheet images and these answers, particularly about which is A and which is B will help. I have 3 half-sheets from 1978, and each is clearly marked along one of the vertical margins "slit A" or "slit B", but it seems that in many cases this information is not present on sample sheets or images we have of older sheets.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

These posts remind me I need to ask these general questions - 1) how do we know the difference between slit As and Bs when looking at any given 11x12 half sheet? 2) When initially printed, slits A and B of any series were attached down the middle, forming essentially a single 22x12 full sheet with a wide white "gutter" down the middle, and they were cut vertically along this "gutter" and fed individually into a cutting machine?

Thanks - I've started compiling my own collection of sheet images and these answers, particularly about which is A and which is B will help. I have 3 half-sheets from 1978, and each is clearly marked along one of the vertical margins "slit A" or "slit B", but it seems that in many cases this information is not present on sample sheets or images we have of older sheets.

You are right, kevvyg1026 and I refer to the two random Slits as A or B or 1 and 2 just to differentiate them, there is usually no way of knowing which one is actually A and which one is actually B.