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#1
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Matt
If discussing an ongoing auction is not your thing, please avert your eyes. |
#2
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Jeff S.
Back looks peeled as well. Definitely off. |
#3
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Tony Andrea
The listing has been closed. |
#4
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Randall
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#5
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Tony Andrea
The seller must have had it double listed by mistake and canceled the second listing. |
#6
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Dave Hornish
There's no way that's real.... |
#7
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: PC
The front looks real, but the back is really weird. The surface is too rough, as if the card was skinned. |
#8
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Tony Andrea
All 4 corners look funny to me. Almost sculptured to look old. |
#9
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Matt
Tony - good observation on the corners - I didn't even notice them. |
#10
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Jantz
The surface on the front of the card looks just as rough as the back and the borders appears strange also. |
#11
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Scott Levy
I've seen about 10 drums in person, and this card looks absolutely like none of them. The image is grainy and that just can't be explained in any fashion other than it's a repro. |
#12
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: David Smith
If you look at the seller's other auctions and their Feed Back you will see they KNOW about card designations (T206, E95), KNOW about grading companies and know about supposedly rare items (i.e. the "proof" cards thay also have up for auction), SO they should ALSO know about Drum backs being hard to find and grading companies grading printer scrap cards. |
#13
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: leon
an underprint. |
#14
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: davidcycleback
The front looks good, the back doesn't. |
#15
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Mr. Moses
that the back is certainly the puzzling element and not the front - I echo the sentiments of the post that pointed to how odd a reproduction such an item would be. It's actually quite complicated in terms of design - and as a fake the idea would be poorly conceived and inadequately implimented. Additionally there is little if any realistic financial motivation to produce it. Someone willing to pay for such a rare annomally (;imited audience) of a common card would have enough knowledge to question such a card's elements and be leary - that is they couldn't fool someone who would be the buyer at any kind of real money. Does anyone know what color ink was used on the 1990's repro set for the Drum? Real or not - hard to imagine how this came about - especially with what appears as a skinned back - WERE THE FRONTS AND BACKS OF T206'S PRINTED ON A SINGLE SHEET or was it two sheets applied together? Forgive the silly question but I'm a 19th century guy - new at this - hungry to learn......... As mentioned earlier it seems the only way printing would appear on a surface like that on a legitimate card is if it was a 2 sheet production and was in fact printer's scraps..... |
#16
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: davidcycleback
The T206s were one one sheet of cardboard. However, the front side had a pre-printing white coating, so the fronts (where there is no printed ink) appear whiter. With the genuine and unaltered T206s, the front borders are a a bit whiter and smoother than the back. This is not an unusual quality, as Topps and Bowman card fronts also had a white front coating to the cardboard. A 1951 Bowman has white boarders and a dark cardboard back. The purpose of the front coating was to have sharper and brighter front graphics. The printers didn't use white ink, and needed a bright white background for bright white whites. White on a T206 or 1975 Topps is where there is no ink. |
#17
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Mr. Moses
that it's a rubber stamp. It's primarily the reasoning behind making it and the design that bothers me. No real motivation. Also, in looking closer I would think that on such a rough surface that the ink wouldn't be as uniform. You have a lot more experience than I do - just playing devil's advocate. I think we would agree that it's always difficult to analize without the object in hand...... |
#18
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: dennis
"WHY is THIS card NOT graded?" none of this sellers cards are graded. maybe he is a collector who thinks grading is a joke. he is showing nice clear scans and a money back guarantee. so if it eliminates all who worship the slab and can not tell a real card from a fake....good. less competition for collectors. |
#19
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Laura
For more info on clay and other coatings for printing paper, check out this article: |
#20
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: dan mckee
The seller was going to have it graded but read the T206 Doyle post here and figured it would be more likely original if it were raw. |
#21
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: David Smith
Dennis, |
#22
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: peter ullman
The back paper stock doesn't look right to me...looks like it was skinned...and then stamped repeatedly with a phony Drum stamp/plate of some sort?! |
#23
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: ErlandStevens
The seller might have sent it to SGC, and they wouldn't touch it. That doesn't mean it's a fake. It just means that SGC doesn't feel comfortable putting it in slab. This card is out there regardless of whether it is a fake or scrap. |
#24
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: boxingcardman
Looks like the seller closed it entirely now. Perhaps to send to SGC? Perhaps to sell offline... |
#25
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: dan mckee
Thanks Adam, that was kinda good ah? |
#26
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#27
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Mr. Moses
about paper making Laura - I like that it was published in 1920 (I think) - nearly contemporary to "T" card distribution is great as it's less like history. I'll get to reading it eventually |
#28
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: dan mckee
seller is sending it to be graded. |
#29
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: peter ullman
That back is phony baloney...and SGC should grade it accordingly...unless it went to PSA...then this will be chapter 1. |
#30
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Laura
Henry, clay coat stock is pretty widely used these days, and allows for printing offset on a variety of substrates that would otherwise have ink seepage into the paper itself. I hate the smell though! |
#31
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Jim Thierfelder
I will preface my coments by saying I know almost nothing about the printing process and only slightly more about T206 backs and their authenticity. |
#32
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Laura
I have a fair amount of experience in the printing industry, and frankly, without a loupe and the chance to feel and even smell the card, (I know, that sounds weird, but there it is) I cannot say definitively whether the back is offset or some other form of printing. |
#33
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: leon
I also am no printing expert but it sort of looks like someone took a blank back T206 and hand stamped it with the drum logo. I too hope it's real as it's neat looking..regards |
#34
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: peter ullman
Other than my graphic arts days w/the printing press, setting type and creating plates for the press in high school I have no major printing experience...BUT...that being said...collecting vintage cards is always an exercise in evaluating printing techniques, etc. And...after looking at thousands upon thousands of old cards...you just get a feel for what looks "right" and what doesn't. |
#35
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#36
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: robert a
Nice try, but this one is fake. |
#37
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Anonymous
hello all, |
#38
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Art M.
I am not sure what to make of this T206 Barry, Milwaukee with misprinted Drum back. This have seen a Barry, Milw. with Drum back in the past and this is a confirmed front/back combination. However, I have never seen the Drum back misprinted. I have seen Old Mill and Broad leaf backs double printed (see the scan below) so I believe that it is possible for the Drum to be likewise misprinted. Just have never seen any examples before. |
#39
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: judson hamlin
I thinks the "s" in scrap was meant to be silent on this card... |
#40
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Matt
Art - those are two interesting backs - the Old Mill has the smooth printing you would expect to see, but the Broad Leaf has some of the rough pixelized look that the Drum does. Is the Broad Leaf yours? |
#41
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Art M.
Matt, |
#42
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: davidcycleback
A rubber stamp generally has a bold dark rim around the graphics that typically is visible to the naked eye or light magnification. When you press the inked stamp surface to the paper the ink is pushed to the edges creating the rim of heavier ink. A different type of process, lithography generally doesn't have such a rim. T206 lithography has a microscopic rim due to the ink used, but this rim is visible only under the microscope not the naked eye or around the house magnifying glass. Printing details will be harder to identify the rougher the surface, with the back of T206 being fairly rough. You can only see the microscopic lithographic rim on the smooth front of the card, not the back. Though I would suspect that most rubber stamps would be obvious even on back, as the rubber stamp rim tends bold and very noticeable. |
#43
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: 1880nonsports
so what are you saying about it? I can be a bit thick...... |
#44
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Leon, I just saw your post and laughed. |
#45
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: davidcycleback
Laura mentioned how one would tell the different between a rubber stamp and lithograph. |
#46
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Ongoing Auction: T206 Printer Scrap?
Posted By: Laura
When I look at the two samples, especially the typography, it's interesting to note the differences in type. The serifs on the one in question are all wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serif), missing, pixelized, or otherwise incorrect. Having a good sample to compare to makes the decision for me. Not Right. Not sure why, (don't know the seller and certainly am not here to cast aspersions on his or her character), but plainly not genuine, if only when it comes to the type. |
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