Babe Ruth - 1916 - M 101 5 # 151 REPRINT???

[cjh118lfh]

This was found in a estate that was purchased from someone who had passed away. He was an 86 year old man who collected most of is life.

This babe ruth card was purchased with a whole bunch of other old cards including a 1910 Joe Jackson card but that will be on a different post.

Just wanted to get some people's thoughts on this babe ruth. My only concerns is the background and how close the #151 is to the border of the card. My guess its a reprint and dont want to send in it to get graded if thats the case.

I have looked at this link as well to compare:
http://net54baseball.com/forum/conte...tingfakes.html

[Leon]

This link is more relevant..... it is also about the 5th thread down the front page of the forum too...as of now

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=215121

[cjh118lfh]

The links help alittle. Sounds like I just need to use a blacklight to really see.

Hopefully some more thoughts will come in.

[Bestdj777]

Doesn't look real.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cjh118lfh

The links help alittle. Sounds like I just need to use a blacklight to really see.

Hopefully some more thoughts will come in.

You don't need a blacklight. They are reprints. But do get at least one of them checked out to be sure for yourself.

[cjh118lfh]

Bestdj777

What gives it away that its fake? Sorry Im a newbie.

[Bestdj777]

The color of the card looks off (back is to grey), the image isn't as crisp as it should be, and it looks artificially aged. Add to all of that the fact that it is a very hot card right now and all signs lead to it being a counterfeit.

[cjh118lfh]

Thanks. So not worth even getting it looked at?

[Bestdj777]

I wouldn't waste the money. It seems like Leon is of the same impression, and he knows a lot more than me when it comes to pre-war stuff. There are some other very knowledgeable people on here as well that can likely weigh in on it.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

You don't need a blacklight. They are reprints. But do get at least one of them checked out to be sure for yourself.

This isn't a bad idea if you want to make sure. You can declare the value to be $20 or so since you're assuming it's a reprint and send it into PSA. If it turns out to be real they'll charge you more to insure it on the way back but I'm sure that's a fee you'd be glad to pay. For 10-15 bucks you'd have a definite answer. But it does look fake to me as well.

[cjh118lfh]

Thanks, maybe I'll just do that to ease my mind.

[ZiggerZagger]

So, just wondering if the OP is the Counterfeiter fishing for some advice about how to make his fakes more convincing, or the poor soul who bought this card for $50.00 on ebay on Dec. 8th?
It's clearly the exact same card in Post #1 as shown in this recent Ebay listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Babe-Ru...p2047675.l2557

I just get a bit suspicious whenever I hear the word "estate sale". I do note the OP's only other post on the Forum is similarly looking for advice re: a Green Cobb "found in a binder" recently.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and apologize if this is my cynicism run amok.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

So, just wondering if the OP is the Counterfeiter fishing for some advice about how to make his fakes more convincing, or the poor soul who bought this card for $50.00 on ebay on Dec. 8th?
It's clearly the exact same card in Post #1 as shown in this recent Ebay listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Babe-Ru...p2047675.l2557

I just get a bit suspicious whenever I hear the word "estate sale". I do note the OP's only other post on the Forum is similarly looking for advice re: a Green Cobb "found in a binder" recently.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and apologize if this is my cynicism run amok.

That certainly looks like the same card. I'm curious to see what the OP has to say about this.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

So, just wondering if the OP is the Counterfeiter fishing for some advice about how to make his fakes more convincing, or the poor soul who bought this card for $50.00 on ebay on Dec. 8th?
It's clearly the exact same card in Post #1 as shown in this recent Ebay listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Babe-Ru...p2047675.l2557

I just get a bit suspicious whenever I hear the word "estate sale". I do note the OP's only other post on the Forum is similarly looking for advice re: a Green Cobb "found in a binder" recently.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and apologize if this is my cynicism run amok.

It would seem so. The person selling the Ruth was also selling the reprints I had pointed out in this thread http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=215121. That seller mentions an Estate Sale as well as a 1910 Joe Jackson (along with some really bad T206 reprints) as does the OP.

I believe the Yiddish word is chutzpah

[bnorth]

The estate sale must have been on etsy.com

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

So, just wondering if the OP is the Counterfeiter fishing for some advice about how to make his fakes more convincing, or the poor soul who bought this card for $50.00 on ebay on Dec. 8th?
It's clearly the exact same card in Post #1 as shown in this recent Ebay listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Babe-Ru...p2047675.l2557

I just get a bit suspicious whenever I hear the word "estate sale". I do note the OP's only other post on the Forum is similarly looking for advice re: a Green Cobb "found in a binder" recently.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and apologize if this is my cynicism run amok.

Would not surprise me. I believe a rule about asking on counterfeits should be only experts respond and no one ever expands on why it is actually NG.

[Bestdj777]

Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't think this guy is a counterfeiter. It wouldn't surprise me if he is the eBay seller, not buyer, and just got it returned and was curious why. I also don't really see any harm in telling him how to identify a poor reprint.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Would not surprise me. I believe a rule about asking on counterfeits should be only experts respond and no one ever expands on why it is actually NG.

I would strongly disagree, the more knowledge the better, All need to understand how/why something is counterfeit. This will help prevent them from making a mistake in the future.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Would not surprise me. I believe a rule about asking on counterfeits should be only experts respond and no one ever expands on why it is actually NG.

I understand this position but there are a lot of honest collectors who post because they want to know if a card is real and how to spot fakes. This site should be about sharing knowledge and our passion for collecting. The scammers will always be out there but I don't feel we should let them stop us from helping the good guys.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

I would strongly disagree, the more knowledge the better, All need to understand how/why something is counterfeit. This will help prevent them from making a mistake in the future.

While there are a few secrets I keep concerning forgeries, I am also in this camp. An educated collector is a collector less likely to get scammed.

[ls7plus]

First thing to do is check out the dot pattern of the ink on the Ruth. Reprints/counterfeits are usually made via taking a picture of a real card and producing a printing plate from that. Doing so, however, leaves a random dot pattern. I personally examined a supposed example of the 1914 Baltimore News Ruth at the 2009 National in Cleveland which was created in that manner. The dealer claimed it was simply a different card from the regular issue to explain why it had no schedule on its back, but the random dot pattern I observed under magnification revealed it to be a counterfeit. A real M101 Ruth was printed with the halftone printing methods employed at the time, and will show a regular, linear dot pattern under magnification. I would suggest a 16X loupe.

You can also check the card stock against other M101 4 and 5's you may own. Obviously, if it is a regular issue Ruth, the stock will be the same (although I believe that Felix Mendelsohn did use some lighter versus darker stock in producing these issues).

Also, a black light can establish that it is a reprint, but not that it is not, as it wasn't until the mid-forties or so that brighteners were added to paper. These will fluoresce under a black light, so if it does fluoresce, you know it was in fact produced in the forties or after. If it doesn't, however, that does not establish that it is not a reprint/counterfeit, since not all paper made from the mid '40's on used such brighteners, and the possibility exists that it was printed using older stock.

Finally, the front of your card does, at least from the scan, appear as if attempts were made to artificially age it, which of course is a cause for concern.

Good luck on it,

Larry