NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:03 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default Another Nice PSA Graded Card - T207 Lewis

We might need to see the submission form on this monstrosity too. Check out the clarity of the front LOL....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-T207-B...59.m1431.l2649

.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:11 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,599
Default

that doesn't look so good!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:15 AM
Popcorn Popcorn is offline
Christopher
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Default

itís the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:23 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
itís the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.
so the listing says...compared to other authentic examples it looks pretty bad?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:25 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
itís the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.
seriously?
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:28 AM
Popcorn Popcorn is offline
Christopher
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
seriously?
yes it was discovered with about 30 others... only alteration is that it sat in water over night.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:32 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
yes it was discovered with about 30 others... only alteration is that it sat in water over night.
Looks like the front is glued to the back....could be the soaking I guess...
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-28-2020, 08:46 AM
oldeboo oldeboo is offline
Tre.y Boo.e
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 221
Default

Woof. Looks like it was maybe soaked in gasoline then hit with a blow torch for a few seconds. Wonder how they determined it's a no emblem with that amount of alteration. Aren't the emblems simply an overprint that could be removed with that amount of damage? Meaning it wouldn't leave a void where it should be, could be wrong on that.

Last edited by oldeboo; 10-28-2020 at 08:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:11 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 6,454
Default

The emblems would be under the gloss, so mechanical removal would leave a dull spot, just like erasing something from a modern card.

Red also fades really easily, but the "Boston" on the uniform is ok, so maybe not faded.

What's more concerning is how ragged the printing of the border around the name is. The inks of the time weren't water soluble, so just water wouldn't do that.
If you look at the name boxes on other examples, they are lighter than the borders. On this one the color is uniform.

Overall, either a complete outlier, or very iffy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-28-2020, 09:37 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Scrapbook pics...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scrap1.jpg (32.6 KB, 359 views)
File Type: jpg scrap2.jpg (55.0 KB, 359 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:19 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,599
Default

So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:21 AM
Popcorn Popcorn is offline
Christopher
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!
Distilled water
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:26 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!
Why is the front printing different than all of the others in the same album? That is my main concern. But again, I am definitely not sure of anything on that card.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:27 AM
ullmandds's Avatar
ullmandds ullmandds is offline
pete ullman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saint paul, mn
Posts: 9,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
Distilled water
chris...so did you remove these cards yourself?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:30 AM
Popcorn Popcorn is offline
Christopher
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Default

Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didnít want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:34 AM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is online now
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 6,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didnít want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$
Always awesome when people do that.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-28-2020, 10:38 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didnít want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$
Here ya go...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg scrap3.jpg (52.1 KB, 336 views)
File Type: jpg scrap4.jpg (42.6 KB, 336 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-28-2020, 11:45 AM
insidethewrapper's Avatar
insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
Mike
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,024
Default

Are those before and after photos ? I would have left them alone if they look like that after soaking. Definitely not the same cards, border is different.
__________________
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).

Last edited by insidethewrapper; 10-28-2020 at 11:47 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-28-2020, 11:54 AM
sb1 sb1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,115
Default

There were two Lewis cards on the sheet, one with emblem, one without.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-28-2020, 11:59 AM
Popcorn Popcorn is offline
Christopher
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post
There were two Lewis cards on the sheet, one with emblem, one without.
Yes, the one “with” was cut in half unfortunately.

Last edited by Popcorn; 10-28-2020 at 12:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-28-2020, 12:45 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 29,599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popcorn View Post
Yes, the one ďwithĒ was cut in half unfortunately.
With all of the pieces of the puzzle, and very little motive from the seller, I am thinking PSA got this one right.
A question though, does anyone have another T207 with print that looks like that? They should be out there somewhere, no?
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-28-2020, 12:55 PM
sb1 sb1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,115
Default

Here are a few Lewis no emblems(actually a large percentage of the ones known). All are less sharp than the emblem counterpart.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg T207 Lewis and variation.jpg (37.1 KB, 261 views)
File Type: jpg T207 lewis rea.jpg (44.3 KB, 255 views)
File Type: jpg T207 Lewis Rea2nd.jpg (35.3 KB, 254 views)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-28-2020, 12:57 PM
sb1 sb1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,115
Default

I believe the one from the find has lost most or all of it's glossy coating, probably from decades of storage in a humid or damp environment and may have other environmental damage as well, fly specking, etc.

Last edited by sb1; 10-28-2020 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-28-2020, 01:17 PM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,019
Default

The font on the name sure is weird, but the back looks perfectly normal. For there to be funny business going on, it would have to be a reback using an already expensive card, then the doctor would have to risk sticking it to a sheet and risk soaking it. Very unlikely imo.

Also, cool to see the full sheet of cards. I own 9 of these and didn't know they all came from the same place.
__________________
ThatT206Life.com
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-29-2020, 02:04 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 6,454
Default

I'm trying to think of how that would happen.

The closest I can get is maybe overinking along with too much water on the plate.

There's a similar common problem on an engraved stamp, but it was because of a change in both the pigment and the type of press all at once, and was from almost 40 years earlier. By the time T207s were a thing it had totally been sorted out and as far as I know wasn't ever a problem on lithographed items.

The idea that the glosscoat has been affected a lot might work too. If the gloss was printed on top of a still damp (ish) black, they might have combined and drifted as the gloss was affected, or the black slightly migrated into the gloss.

Overall a very strange outlier.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:06 PM
frohme's Avatar
frohme frohme is offline
Mike
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 599
Default Looking for additional feedback on these

Curious if any of the recent winners of the raw cards would post their perceptions of the card(s) when they get them in hand. I got Gregg (two right, one down from the Lewis being discussed) and am curious to know what others think about their card.

Thanks
--
Mike.
__________________
T207 Napoleon HOF subset - in-progress .
T207 Magic Numbers: 17/5/37/1/1
T207's - Sale/Trade
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-29-2020, 08:41 PM
oldeboo oldeboo is offline
Tre.y Boo.e
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 221
Default

Something else I found interesting about the raw cards...

All of the cards were either Broadleaf factory 25 or Anonymous factory 25 from what I could tell, unless I missed some.

It looks like a pretty original grouping. I don't think it would be a wild stretch to say that these were likely put together a long time ago. Is there not some debate on what packs the Anonymous factory 25 cards were inserted into? I think this is a really good clue that they were in Broadleaf packs. They either didn't have the logo at first or it was removed for some reason. Why would the old timer that was ripping down the smokes be smoking all kinds of brands?

Any thoughts on this from the T207 gurus?

Last edited by oldeboo; 10-29-2020 at 08:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
T207 Irv Lewis Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 11-24-2004 05:09 PM
t207 Lewis Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 11-29-2002 11:09 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 AM.


ebay GSB