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#1
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Brian Weisner
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#2
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Brian---There is a big difference between fixing a game and betting on a game. If all Rose did was bet on his own team to win then I have no problem letting him in to the HOF. Besides, at the end of the day I don't think that a player's election to the HOF should be based on his character, simply on his playing ability. If it were the former then there can be a strong arguement made for melting down the busts of Cobb, Anson, Hornsby and maybe even Ruth. |
#3
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
...assuming the rumors are true. If baseball has decided that 13 years of banishment is enough, then let him in - period. But if baseball feels they need to publicly humiliate him then just skip it altogether and don't let him in. This is like a grade-school argument and if Selig pulls it off as planned, it will be yet another embarassment to baseball. |
#4
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Marc S.
<<If all Rose did was bet on his own team to win then I have no problem letting him in to the HOF. Besides>> |
#5
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
My guess is that Rose was smart enough to not jeopardize his team's success to win a bet. Can you point to any examples of when he blew out a pitcher's arm by leaving him in a game too long? |
#6
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Marc S.
I cannot point to any particular instances.. |
#7
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Ever play in a softball game when you bet on the outcome? I have lots of times. Do you think that is wrong? |
#8
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
so it's impossible for him to tell if Rose made any managerial decisions because of betting. But if you want to argue this point, unless Rose can be considered to have performed as a manager better than any manager in history, it is always possible that his "sub-perfection" performance was due in part to implementing decisions influenced by the bets he had placed. And yes, some of those decisions may have resulted in player injuries (possibly very minor) that would not otherwise have ocurred. |
#9
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Fair enough Scott. If Rose managed for ten years and never won a game he is still a HOFer based on his playing days. |
#10
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
I definitely put him in the HOF, regardless of his gambling. There are plenty of despicable personalities in the HOF and he would just be another. |
#11
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
In the mid-1990s I took my daughter with me to a card show that Pete Rose was at. We were in line to get his autograph and when our turn came he saw my daughter and said he had a daughter about the same age. He stopped everything, went to his bag, and got out pictures of his daughter to show mine. It was one of the nicest, most personal, things I have ever seen an athlete do at a card show. Based on that I will always be a Pete Rose fan. |
#12
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Cy
Jay, |
#13
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Tom
about 88 miles from Cincinnati in Louisville, the Reds have ALWAYS been my favorite (until Marge Schott f'ed up the whole apple cart, but another story for another day). Went to MANY games when I was a kid from mid 1970's till late 1980's. Still go to some occasionally. |
#14
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Tom
and not to answer my own posts like some people do, but I'd single out Namath........I had only two times that I've met him and one was at a show on Long Island. Because of his bad knees, he had to stand the whole time and he took the time to sign everything and had no problems with personalizing and took pictures with anyone and everyone who wanted to. Maybe it was because it was New York, maybe not. He also came to the Paul Hornung show in Louisville and he signed forever for people, even after the show was completed taping. He was very candid with the crowd, and unlike many of Paul's other guests, he took some questions from the crowd afterwards and was very generous with everyone.......another good guy........ |
#15
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
since I could go on about this for days. Pete Rose should be banned for life. There is one golden rule in baseball, it's posted for all to see and has been for decades--thou shall not bet on baseball. The rule is there for a reason, since its violation damages the integrity of the game itself. Whereas baseball is apparently willing to overlook the other sins and bad acts of its participants, it does not and should not tolerate those who strike at its very core. |
#16
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Hankron
1) I think Rose should be allowed in the Hall of Fame after he admits and apoloizes for betting on baseball. I also think O.J. Simpson, Ty Cobb and Joe Jackson belong in the Hall of Fame. |
#17
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
David--So cutting through all that you are saying is the problem that the manager is betting on a particular game or that the information that he bet and how he bet is not uniformly distributed in the marketplace? Again, I don't condone betting against your team. However, I have no problem if Joe Torre bets on the Yankees to win as long as the bet is adequately disclosed. |
#18
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
And I think O. J. Simpson should be executed but his bust should remain in Canton. |
#19
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
...was he getting paid? just wondering. |
#20
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
because their every move is scrutinized by the public, so it doesn't surprise me that certain players have their bad moments. I just felt that lying to a bunch of little kids and then looking out the window and gloating was a bit much - actually, it horrified me. But that's just me. |
#21
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Hankon
First, why there is an assumption that Rose only bet on his teams? From what I understand, there is evidence suggesting that he bet against his team. |
#22
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: jay behrens
Harmon Killebrew is always a class act. I rememebr back in 1987 I had him sign a wirephoto of him and Cal Emer, the Twins manager at the time. He asked if I would be interested selling it to him since he didn't have any pics of him and Emer together. I said no, and kept the picture for myself. When I sold off my collection, I kept this one photo to him if he was ever at a show near me. |
#23
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
Chapter XVI discusses gambling. |
#24
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Yes, he was getting paid. However, there are alot of guys who, despite getting paid, still act like jerks. Reggie Jackson is one who quickly comes to mind. Ralph Terry was another. |
#25
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: TBob
The Hall of Fame is strictly based on what you did on the field. If you eliminated all the weasels, jackasses and shady characters, there would be a lot of guys not in the HOF, including probably a quarter to a third of the guys who played in the Golden Age of baseball. |
#26
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Hankron
Bob, it's not a one-or-the-other situation for me. I think Rose derserves to be in the Hall of Fame AND I think gambling should be banned from baseball. |
#27
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
you as well as anyone should know better. The rule has been clear and has been posted for 50 years, along with a statement of its punishment. If you don't like the rule, don't play, or take action to have the rule changed. |
#28
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jue
... |
#29
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
In case you're interested, here's the Dowd report: |
#30
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: TBob
As a lawyer, what's your argument on Pete's behalf?-- > |
#31
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Marc S.
How can you say that he has been punished enough if he agreed to a lifetime ban? It would be different if he had not part in that, but if he was of sound mind at the time, and he willingly and of his own volition signed a lifetime ban from baseball -- how can you say the punishment does not fit the crime? He himself agreed to it 13 years ago! What has changed? |
#32
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: nolemmings (Todd)
<14th Amendment equal protection and due process with a little selective enforcement thrown in. |
#33
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: TBob
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#34
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: T206Monsta
if we all got a citation every time we broke the speed limit. Buuuuutttttttt officer, I was just....... |
#35
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Patrick McMenemy
Pete Rose may have been a great ball player, however, he does not belong in the Baseball Hall of Fame! That HONOR should be reserved only for great players that respected the integrity of the game. LET THE LIFETIME BAN STAND. Are there others that should not have been enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Absolutely. |
#36
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: T206Monsta
I don't think they are. So maybe banished from MLB but not the HOF? |
#37
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: warshawlaw
Rose stays out. He bet on baseball while active in the game AND was caught before being elected to the HOF AND agreed to a lifetime ban. If he really thought that lifetime meant something else, he is a fool. Big distinction between that and the other situations under discussion. |
#38
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)
I am not by any means an expert about the goings on in baseball during the first quarter of last century, so I'd like to know about these incidents concerning Cobb and Speaker. Please provide some sources. |
#39
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Mike
Yes, but what if he bet on his team to LOSE? Throwing games isn't out of the question, he lied before. |
#40
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Jay Miller
Some of you guys need to take a walk in the fresh air and clear your heads. Baseball is a sport, a recreation, a form of entertainment. It is not life and death. The HOF is a place where there are exhibits showing who the greatest baseball players were--the best hitters, the best pitchers, the best fielders, NOT THE BEST PEOPLE. Pete Rose was one of the greatest players ever to play the game and he deserves to be there, period. His bat is already there, his spikes are already there---they didn't do anything without Pete to move them. |
#41
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: RC_McKenzie
Rose should go into the HOF as a player. He should have a disclaimer on his plaque that reads.."not a hall of fame manager" |
#42
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: rod
Last summer, I took some kids to Cooperstown .They don't know who most of the enshrinees are but as we stood in front of Hack Wilson , I explained some of his great stats and their eyes lit up. Nearby ,two gentlemen made a comment "Yeah but too bad he was a big drunk when he played", The kids immediatly lost interest. Maybe Wilson doesn't even belong there but after awhile you get tired of making excuses for these guys . "Yeah, old pete was a real jerk, but what a great player!"Kids get real confused by all these double messages. |
#43
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: runscott
Acceptable player lifestyles certainly varied from generation to generation. As some board posters have alluded to, Landis was lenient with Speaker and Cobb, even though (and this is true) Cobb admitted to being involved in the betting on the game. But the problem was more pervasive - during Cobb's time it was accepted for teams that had their position in the standing nailed down, to take a little cash to lose a game and help out another team - moving up in the standings could mean bonuses. Landis had clamped down on the Black Sox because that's exactly what he was hired to do - the Sox went too far and gave baseball a major black eye. Landis was brought in to clean up with an iron fist, which he did. Gamblers had a major part in baseball back in the 1800's, and the game was not considered a respectable profession even as late as the 1920's. You can read some great stories about it in "The Glory of Their Times" and I also encourage you to get the cd's (amazing listening to these guys). |
#44
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Julie, not "Jue"
... |
#45
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Nick
Living in Las Vegas, being an avid sports bettor and baseball fan I have a unique perspective. |
#46
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Mark Evans
This point may have already been made in this thread; I confess to not having read every entry. |
#47
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: ty_cobb
Tell me, what qualifies Selig or any of the owners |
#48
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: TBob
Cobb bragged about killing a black man, almost killed another and beat up an armless cripple to within an inch of his life who was heckling him at a ballgame. |
#49
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: Brian H.
He still has to get the votes (75%) and judging from this board) that might not be a foregone conclusion. |
#50
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Pete Rose in the HOF?
Posted By: TBob
From what I have read, the incident concerning Cobb, Speaker and Wood arose out of a game played in September, 1919, on which Dutch Leonard claimed the others had wagered. The players were cleared when Leonard, who apparently waited until November,1926 to come forward, refused to provide testimony. If true, then consider the following: |
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