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  #51  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:19 PM
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My issue with Maestro stems from an unsuccessful attempt at renting a house in Tuscany
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:21 PM
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For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.
Blondie did a clever little number called "Love at the Pier", but I doubt that's the one you're looking for?
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:30 PM
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For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.
4th of July (Sandy)
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:41 PM
ASF123 ASF123 is offline
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My issue with Maestro stems from an unsuccessful attempt at renting a house in Tuscany
Nice. My problem involved being forced to hold a note until it caused the roof of the opera hall to cave in, maiming me. There is video of the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4AOKEjbPgA

Last edited by ASF123; 04-20-2021 at 02:44 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-20-2021, 02:42 PM
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4th of July (Sandy)
Dammit, I should have gotten that one right away. Huge Springsteen fan.
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  #56  
Old 04-20-2021, 03:09 PM
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4th of July (Sandy)
And another? Clue -- 60s.
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2021, 03:42 PM
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..be found quality by a jury...
Sadly, yes. The card doctors have been found to be "quality" by many.
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  #58  
Old 04-20-2021, 03:46 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
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Sadly, yes. The card doctors have been found to be "quality" by many.
Man You Make a Couple Spelling mistakes and you get destroyed oh well I’m a easy target I suppose.

Hope y’all enjoyed the laughs at my disposal.
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  #59  
Old 04-20-2021, 04:38 PM
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For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.
Beach Boys of course . . . Surfin' Safari
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  #60  
Old 04-20-2021, 04:43 PM
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Beach Boys of course . . . Surfin' Safari
Damn I missed that one myself. Still have another in mind.
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  #61  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:02 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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For 10 points name a song whose lyrics include the word pier.
Pretty sure it's in Surfin' Safari
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  #62  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:45 PM
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Pretty sure it's in Surfin' Safari
Already named above.
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  #63  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:53 PM
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I need to refresh threads before I answer lol.

How about Up the Pool by Tull?
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 04-20-2021 at 05:56 PM.
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  #64  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:10 PM
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But when you shake your fist at others and say constantly "how stupid are you guys to stay involved with this bullshit" . . . at the same time that you stay involved with it all . . . that's the part I struggle with . . .
I hear you and don't disagree when it comes to supporting tpg's and auction houses found party to fraud. My collection suffers because I don't pay premiums for graded cards, or bid in most auctions(including many on ebay). Graded cards rarely make it 30 minutes in my possession before being busted. But, passion isn't normally accompanied by complacency. If my Marines and Sailors weren't bitching then something was wrong.
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  #65  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:11 PM
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I need to refresh threads before I answer lol.

How about Up the Pool by Tull?
Don't know that one. Still looking for a late 60s song by a major British group.
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  #66  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:14 PM
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There's been reported fraud in the hobby since 1971, but the key to thwarting it is to be educated to know when it's happening and report on it.
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  #67  
Old 04-20-2021, 06:25 PM
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Randy Newman, Linda, was 1968, but he is not a British group, so it can't be that one. Bob Geldof, Walking Back to Happiness is another I saw. I ran the word "pier" through a song list website and came up with hundreds of returns. I think My Morning Jacket has a song about a pier, but that's a newer band from the South.
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  #68  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:31 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Moody Blues Legend of a Mind 1968. If that ain't it I quit lol. (and I had to look this one up even though I'm a huge Moody Blues fan)
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  #69  
Old 04-20-2021, 09:32 PM
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Moody Blues Legend of a Mind 1968. If that ain't it I quit lol. (and I had to look this one up even though I'm a huge Moody Blues fan)
Yes.
Signing of Timothy Leary: the little man who sells you thrills along the pier.

Great and different song, brilliant flute solo.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-20-2021 at 09:33 PM.
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  #70  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:15 AM
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Yep, just watch American Greed. A whole TV series built on stories of fraud. Bill Mastro was on one episode. It's a shame we have so much an annual TV series can be made from the stories.
Corrected for those who find joy in pointing out other people's mistakes.

Last edited by Wimberleycardcollector; 04-21-2021 at 09:17 AM.
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  #71  
Old 04-21-2021, 09:30 AM
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"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithal to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. But did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspicion over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.
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Last edited by jchcollins; 04-21-2021 at 12:23 PM.
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2021, 10:28 AM
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Already named above.
Peter, not quite a*pier, but I struck upon that 50's classic by the Drifters, "Under the Boardwalk."
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  #73  
Old 04-21-2021, 10:33 AM
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"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithall to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. Bud did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspect over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.
Well said. I don't stress over baseball card collecting. But then again it's a hobby for me and not tied to financial gains or retirement. It all started with my love of baseball and continues to be tied to that. I also don't let politics ruin my love for the game.
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  #74  
Old 04-21-2021, 11:25 AM
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Well said. I don't stress over baseball card collecting. But then again it's a hobby for me and not tied to financial gains or retirement. It all started with my love of baseball and continues to be tied to that. I also don't let politics ruin my love for the game.
Thanks. Ugh, I see I cannot type or spell today.
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  #75  
Old 04-21-2021, 12:17 PM
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Peter, not quite a*pier, but I struck upon that 50's classic by the Drifters, "Under the Boardwalk."
Its actually from 1964 although most think it's from the doo wop 50s.
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  #76  
Old 04-21-2021, 01:38 PM
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Thanks. Ugh, I see I cannot type or spell today.
LOL. Don't worry the grammar police will let you know.
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  #77  
Old 04-21-2021, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jchcollins View Post
"Fraud" in the hobby has been around as long as there has been a hobby, I hate to tell you. It's just got a lot more light on it now because we have graders and dealers and auction houses who can stand to benefit tremendously more from the fraud, and the technology / scans / wherewithal to detect 1/16 of an inch or less of perfect trimming, recoloring, bleaching, soaking, what have you. We also perhaps more importantly have the technology to share and disseminate the details of this fraud en masse quickly. Is this bad? Sure. But did certain unscrupulous people also do similar, if much cruder card doctoring in 1968? 1975? 1982? 1990? Of course they did. It simply did not get a ton of light on it due to the way the hobby worked and communicated at the time. Even so, one could argue this was the impetus for the birth of professional grading. But I digress.

Bottom line, are you happy with your cards? Do you know enough about them to detect the red flags of what may be a basic doctoring job? Then don't buy those cards. I've been doing this for 35 years and most of the vintage (my main focus as a kid...) that I had then was beat up to begin with. I will admit to liking nice, properly slabbed midgrade cards, but if too many of those become ripe with suspicion over alteration, then it's no problem for me to go back to buying lower grade raw cards (for cheaper...) that I don't suspect of having been altered. Just speaking personally, it would take things getting a lot worse than they have been over the previous 3-5 years with the scandals for me to get that much more disgusted with the hobby to where I would consider leaving entirely. But each unto their own.
Terrific post.
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  #78  
Old 04-21-2021, 03:18 PM
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It could be argued that the more you dislike and oppose fraud in the hobby, the more you love the hobby and want to protect it.

If you did not love the hobby or were apathetic to the molestation of cards for huge profits, then the fraud would probably not make your radar screen.

The people profiting from (and authenticating) fraud love the monetary aspect of the hobby. Those opposing fraud and corrupt practices love the hobby for what it is.

And when you love something, you do not stand by silently to watch it fall apart.
Well said Mark.
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  #79  
Old 04-21-2021, 03:31 PM
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Well said Mark.
I get that.

Maybe my post wasn't particularly well worded. What I find odd is how many of the people who rail about fraud in the hobby aren't actually railing against the fraudsters, but railing against other collectors who in their minds are too happy and aren't sufficiently outraged. Saying basically "because of collectors like you guys buying the stuff you're buying fraud is flourishing. . . .you should be more pissed off like I am."

The most obvious example is anytime someone posts about buying from PWCC 3 people immediately post about how PWCC is all about fraud bidding and how basically if you purchase cards from that company you are somehow complacent in all sorts of horrors.

Maybe too fine a point, but that's what I was trying to understand.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-21-2021 at 03:39 PM.
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  #80  
Old 04-21-2021, 03:39 PM
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Well Steve, aren't they? If you support a company that does business the wrong way then you are giving the most important stamp of approval you can, your dollars, that keep them in business.
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  #81  
Old 04-21-2021, 05:09 PM
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Well Steve, aren't they? If you support a company that does business the wrong way then you are giving the most important stamp of approval you can, your dollars, that keep them in business.
I'm just not that concerned with what other collectors do. Yes, I avoid companies that I don't think are ethical. But if someone else makes a different call I don't think it's my place to chastise them.

I vent at AHs all the time. I don't want to be in the business of venting at other collectors. The problem is the criminals, not their customers.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-21-2021 at 05:23 PM.
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  #82  
Old 04-21-2021, 06:30 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Yeah I think we're on the same page. I don't understand doing business with creeps and crooks so I don't do it. While I don't understand anyone who continues to do business with them I don't think I actively harangue them about it, just in my head lol, Although if someone who is still doing business with a crook then complains about the crooks in the hobby I might be disinclined to bite my tongue.
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  #83  
Old 04-23-2021, 01:11 PM
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We all need to help root out fraud in the hobby. A few days ago a longtime member got shown the door as he completely reneged on a large item at a major auction house. He was still doing business on our BST daily. When I caught wind of it, in my estimation, he was no longer a good risk here. I had pm'd him and he was back on the board, 2x, but never answered the pm concerning the situation. Of course he followed up his banishment with the obligatory derogatory email.

To reply to the original question, I also don't understand folks who bitch and complain, yet stay in the hobby. The answer has to be money, doesn't it?


Every thread needs a random card.


.
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Last edited by Leon; 04-23-2021 at 01:15 PM.
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  #84  
Old 04-23-2021, 03:22 PM
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We all need to help root out fraud in the hobby. A few days ago a longtime member got shown the door as he completely reneged on a large item at a major auction house. He was still doing business on our BST daily. When I caught wind of it, in my estimation, he was no longer a good risk here. I had pm'd him and he was back on the board, 2x, but never answered the pm concerning the situation. Of course he followed up his banishment with the obligatory derogatory email.
.
Leon

A thankless task, for which I thank you!

Bob
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  #85  
Old 04-23-2021, 04:14 PM
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Leon

A thankless task, for which I thank you!

Bob
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