What are you top 5 20th century boxing cards?

[david_l]

That Jackson card is so amazing. I constantly hope that one day I'll stumble across one. Probably not very likely. Definitely deserves to be in the top 5. I love that the card says "Champion pugilist of the world." Damn straight.

Agreed on your points about how far flung these cards are. Just another fun aspect of collecting pugilist cards that some of our card collecting brethren miss out on.

[david_l]

I was reading up on Bob Fitzsimmons recently. Really cool guy who was a sparring partner of Jackson's for a bit. He was quoted as saying something like future generations will look poorly upon fighters who draw a color line. Very astute thinking for the time.

I also loved that Fitzsimmons publicly refused to fight Peter Jackson. Not because he was black (like Sullivan claimed) but because he was a bad dude (and I mean that in the best of ways).

So much really cool history in the sport.

[boxingcarddigest]

Andy, that's my Fitz Ogdens. Found it in the strangest of places (old antique bookshop within a folder of cards). Hadn't ever seen one in my time of collecting. Also found two of the Ogden's Jacksons in odd places in Australia (within 2 weeks of each other !). The only two I have ever seen however is the one Adam has posted, and the one I have sitting at home.


In terms of nice looking cards, it's hard to go past the T218's, T9's and T220's.








As for my favorites, for pure image aesthetics, I cannot go past the Felix Potin Jack Johnson - still one of my favorite cards in my collection.



The La Morena's have some funky images.


The Aussie stadium cards around the WW1 period had some awesome graphics



And I always liked the colors on the Danish Rich's cards:

[david_l]

Wowza that Aussie card is sharp. Also super jealous about your Jackson finds.

[boxingcarddigest]

Some of those stadium promotional cards were wacky:

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by david_l

That Jackson card is so amazing. I constantly hope that one day I'll stumble across one. Probably not very likely. Definitely deserves to be in the top 5. I love that the card says "Champion pugilist of the world." Damn straight.

Agreed on your points about how far flung these cards are. Just another fun aspect of collecting pugilist cards that some of our card collecting brethren miss out on.

Honestly, I did not realize it was that rare when I saw it for sale, I just knew the Aussie Ogdens was a type card I needed for my collection.

As long as we're talking crazy-ass rarities I have to give a shout out to Adam Hats:

[david_l]

Them's some good looking hats!

Out of curiosity, was there any 19th Century Peter Jackson cards produced? I have your book but don't remember it being mentioned.

Awesome stuff everyone. This thread has turned into a nice show and tell.

[Exhibitman]

19th Century Jackson Cards:

N310 Mayo would be the easiest to find and afford. There is an N338 SF Hess. And the N566 Newsboy cabinets. And N266 Jackson-Slavin.

[Andy Baran]

There is also an N174 Old Judge produced in Australia. There are 2 variations listed of the SF Hess. Does anyone know what the difference between the 2 cards is?

[Exhibitman]

I can't believe I forgot that; I used to have an N174 Jackson.

[david_l]

Really cool. Thanks so much for the info. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for one of those issues. There's a few 19th Century cards I've been slowly hunting for in my price range. I didn't realize that Jackson was so prominent in that era's cards.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[david_l]

Originally Posted by david_l

Them's some good looking hats!

Out of curiosity, was there any 19th Century Peter Jackson cards produced? I have your book but don't remember it being mentioned.

Awesome stuff everyone. This thread has turned into a nice show and tell.

lol. Sorry. I have the 2008 version of your book and I noticed that you mention Jackson a LOT. I just managed to retain none of the info.

[Dpeck100]

The Mike Tyson 1986 Panini Supersport Italian deserves consideration. It is arguably the most followed boxing sticker and while it isn't exactly rare it is Kid Dynamite from 1985. Moments after Tyson bloodies up Sammy Scaff on December 6th of that year he is interviewed and captured for this image. The UK version came out in 1987 and features images from the Australian Open from that January so there is no disputing which is the rookie of Mike Tyson.

My generation grew up playing Mike Tyson's Punch Out and arguing with elders that he is the best ever.

I think of the Tyson Italian similar to the 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan. If you are trying to determine the top basketball cards there are plenty to choose from that are more rare and perhaps more valuable. But popularity counts for something and so it should at least be considered for the list. Top 10 easily.

[Exhibitman]

I wouldn't put the Tyson in the top 10 cards and certainly not the top five, unless you are starting the list in 1980. As to post-1980 cards I would rank it up there as one of the top five (in date order):

1986 Panini Tyson
1986 Brown's Holyfield
1988 Panini Julio Cesar Chavez
1997 Brown's Mayweather
1999 World Boxing Magazine (Japan) Manny Pacquiao

If we push the start date back to the 1970s I think he'd probably be top 5 (though I could see an argument for one or more Ali cards displacing one or more of these guys):

1973 Panini Roberto Duran
1986 Panini Tyson
1986 Brown's Holyfield
1997 Brown's Mayweather
1999 World Boxing Magazine (Japan) Manny Pacquiao

But if we push it back beyond 1970 Tyson drops off the list of even the most significant cards of heavyweights, even if we limit it to one card per fighter:

E125 Johnson (or T229, T227, etc.)
1921 Romeo y Julieta Jack Dempsey
1935 JA Pattreiouex Sport Celebrities Joe Louis
1951 Ringside Rocky Marciano
1960 Hemmets Cassius Clay (or any of a number of other early Clay cards)

If you add in all of the other weight classes and add in multiple cards of fighters, Tyson is nowhere near the top ten.

As for comparisons with Jordan, I don't buy it. Jordan is on the short list of greatest players of all time. Tyson is not even close to Jordan-esque range even among heavyweights. The IBRO (2005) ranks the heavies as follows:

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Larry Holmes
James J. Jeffries
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Sam Langford
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Harry Wills
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons

Tyson doesn't have the resume. He didn't face anything like the guys around in the 1970s; but setting aside that era as a special one, he also did squat against the best of his era. On the way up he beat a bunch of bums, blown up cruiserweights, and an elderly Larry Holmes. Then he got blasted out by Buster Douglas? He didn't face Bowe. After he did his rape time he fought bums and tomato cans before losing to Holyfield and Lewis. He wasn't anywhere near as mentally and physically tough as the prewar fighters. When he was in the deep $hit with Holyfield he melted down rather that gut it out. Dempsey and Louis would have ripped him to pieces, Johnson would have taken an easy decision from him, and Frazier and Marciano would have ruined him permanently as a fighter because they fought the same way he did but with much bigger balls; they would have humiliated him. Frankly, I don't think he was blood and guts enough to beat any of the guys above him on that list, except perhaps for Liston, who was a similarly flawed individual and might have been spooked by Tyson's shtick. That said, he was a legit HOFer and he had a puncher's chance with anyone, same as every elite heavyweight does.

[Dpeck100]

I don't profess to know a fraction of what you know about boxing or boxing cards/stickers. That said Mike Tyson is Mike Tyson. The most deadly fighter my generation has ever witnessed. Purest like you have always bashed Tyson and always will. Casual boxing fans like me and millions more are enamored with his accomplishments in the ring.

In terms of the sticker. A copy sold for $5,100 on EBAY. There aren't many boxing cards or stickers that ever have. The most famous I am aware of is the Leaf Graziano and obviously it isn't in that realm but popular none the less.

The comparison to Jordan isn't suggesting he is the necessarily the greatest of all time but more that a modern card that has a large population is the most liquid basketball card that exists. Actually the most liquid trading card that exists. There are plenty of Tyson's but because of his popularity it is still bringing great money and isn't close to as rare as some on the list.

I think a modern fighter should be featured in the top ten for sure and there is no question in my mind it should be Tyson.