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  #1  
Old 05-22-2003, 01:23 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

In the near future I will be offering an online/interactive course on the authentication of prints (so you know, a baseball card is print), and a second course for photographs. It's both in depth and practical. While it covers all areas of art and collectable prints, the student will be able to focus on his or her area of choice (whether 19th century scorecards or Salvador Dali or Steiglitz's 'Camera Work'). Even if you are only a 1950s Bowman collector, you will still learn how they authenticate original Rembrandts (why is the collector holding it up to the light like that?), tobacco labels and stamps.

I do point out that, while the course is intended to offer practical knowledge for normal collectors, it is in depth and is not intended for those who are casual about the subject.

The course will be run in a combination of online material and interactive situations. Direction will be emailed once a week, so this won't be a rushed/overloaded situation.

Assuming application, I can promise that everyone who takes the course will end up being substantially more knowledgeable and capable in the area the authentication of prints, not only in his area of interest but others areas as well. I can also promise you that anyone who takes the course will know substantially more than those who don't.

If anyone is interested, feel free to email. Requested anonymity will be honored. The course will start on July 1st. The photograph course will be offered after that one is finished.

Also, the course is free.

Relevant future info will be posted at www.cylcleback.com

Thanks,
David

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  #2  
Old 05-22-2003, 01:53 PM
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Posted By: Jay Miller

David-I would like to take the course. Thanks for making it available! Please send all emails to curl777@aol.com.

Thanks---Jay

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  #3  
Old 05-22-2003, 02:23 PM
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Posted By: Photograph Course

David, interested in the Photograph course.
You can contact me by email.

Jimmy

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  #4  
Old 05-22-2003, 02:25 PM
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Posted By: JLeiderman

Guess it was obvious that I made a mistake on the previous post while writing my name.

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Old 05-22-2003, 06:35 PM
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Posted By: Julie Vognar

...

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Old 05-22-2003, 07:37 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

The only correction to my above post, is the site is www.cycleback.com

To those who posted or emailed me, I have your names and you will duly notified before July 1. So as to rid any fears, there are no tests or papers or grade quizzes (I would want to grade them about as much as anyone would want to take them).

Lastly, I find that people and organizations who are firm in the beleif they don't need this type of course are almost always the one who need it badly.

Thanks again

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Old 05-22-2003, 08:39 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

put me on the list

sabrjay @ chater.net

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Old 05-22-2003, 10:10 PM
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Posted By: runscott

and I'm sure Pete wants to be included - he is always interested in learning from others...he says.

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Old 05-22-2003, 10:31 PM
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Posted By: JC

Sure, I'd like that.

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Old 05-22-2003, 11:34 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

25% off if Tammy takes the course too

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  #11  
Old 05-23-2003, 06:28 AM
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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

Always had trouble refusing free stuff, . Look forward to it, thanks for offering it David. Keith

emails to OLeary@Co.Lancaster.PA.US

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  #12  
Old 05-23-2003, 06:30 AM
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Posted By: leon

sign me up please.....thanks David....

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  #13  
Old 05-23-2003, 09:11 AM
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Posted By: petecld

Yes, I have already contacted David directly.

Seem cranky Scott, need a diaper changing?

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  #14  
Old 05-23-2003, 10:13 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

warshawlaw@aol.com

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  #15  
Old 05-23-2003, 10:56 AM
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Posted By: runscott

but if I did wear them, I wouldn't want you changing them, though that offer is quite in keeping with what I've heard about you.

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Old 05-25-2003, 03:13 PM
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Posted By: RobertS

David--

I'd like in, too...bought the books and would love to see what else you have in store!

Robert

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  #17  
Old 05-25-2003, 08:46 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

Sorry Robert, but I can't accept any more this time. However, it will likely be offered again in the future.

I also note that the courses can be taken anonymously, and I didn't intent this thread to be a sign up sheet. I will have to know who everyone is, but if someone asks to stay anonymous I will be the only one.

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  #18  
Old 05-25-2003, 09:06 PM
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Posted By: JC

I'll put her in a Bikini for 50 percent!

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Old 05-25-2003, 09:09 PM
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Posted By: Elliot

Everybody knows David can't keep a secret. He'll probably tell everyone your mark on the course.

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  #20  
Old 05-30-2003, 11:00 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

I was advised by a board member that I shouldn't offer the course for free, and, after thinking about, I agree. As of now the course is off, but an advanced course on baseball photographs will be offered in the near future. I'm well aware that most will not pay for such a course. To be honest, this is no skin off my nose, as I already know the material.

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  #21  
Old 05-31-2003, 12:33 PM
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Posted By: leon

You probably shouldn't have offered if you didn't intend to keep your word.....why is it nowadays that no one keeps committments? Oh well, like you said, no skin off your nose....good luck

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Old 05-31-2003, 12:34 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I have to agree with Leon. I know that the info you have is valuable, but cancelling for the reason you did has prolly done more harm to your reputation than the goodwill you were generating by offering the class.

Just my thoughts.

Jay

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  #23  
Old 05-31-2003, 02:15 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

I made an error in canceling the course to everyone, and I duly apologize.

I wish to point out that as many realize I had a fund raiser in an attempt to support a variety of free services, including local (Seattle) and online courses, authentication, etc. I'm not a rich man, but I have been able to afford for several years to offer my services for free (Find me a lawyer or accountant on this board who does similar). As a personal rule, I have never wanted to become some authentication service, charging $50 for an LOA. In fact, I'd rather quit the business altogether, than take an ‘authentication for $50’ booth at the antique show. It has always been my specifically stated practice that anyone in Seattle could stop by my home or office and I would judge the authenticity or do the necessary research free of charge. I’ve always enjoyed helping normal people and never wanted a fee per examination to get in the way. Even though they still sold, I had uploaded all of my books onto website for free viewing and downloading .... However, due to turn in events I found that I was longer mentally in a position to do everything for free, and certainly couldn’t take the same work load as before for nothing. I had hoped that if I got sufficient backing I could keep everything free for everyone on and offline as I had always done. The funds were to cover ONLY the specific costs of the services (materials, software for the course, etc), and donations would be used for and only for keeping services free for everyone. Naturally, upon solicitation there were almost no donations. As such, I was no longer in a position to offer most of my services as I had before. However, I decided I could offer the courses I had planed but only if I charged the students. To get the course ready, I was going to have a dry run (the course offered here). As it was a test course to get everything straight (for me and the future students) I was willing to offer it for free. The first time through, offering for free was a benefit to me, as I would find out what were the typical student questions people would ask and concerns they would have …. Well, when I offered the course here guess what? All the people who never donated to keep the services free for everyone were the first to sign up for the free course. In fact, these people made up 80 percent of the people who signed up (Of the others, one actually donated and the others were probably unaware of the fundraiser). To say this rubbed me the wrong way is an understatement— and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say rightly so.


In the end, I agree with Leon and Jay that I was wrong to cancel the course, as I had committed to it. I hope people understand why I had earlier (wrongly) cancelled the course. I do however believe that those who take it will enjoy it and find it helpful. I also hope that any ill will that my earlier tantrum caused, will dissolve during the course. I also wish to repeat that, as this is the first run of the course, the course will benifit me in offering it in the future.

Best wishes
David

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  #24  
Old 05-31-2003, 02:52 PM
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Posted By: leon

I appeciate your response. If you look back in your files I think you will see that I HAVE bought 2-3 of your books and they are very good. I would also think that many other board members have bought them too. We understand it costs money to do what you do. I applaud you for all you do for the hobby in an aus gras ( I think that's the correct phrase, or is that potato's ) manner.....take care....

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Old 05-31-2003, 03:19 PM
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Posted By: julie

...

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Old 05-31-2003, 04:08 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Julie, isn't confused your normal state? :-p

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Old 05-31-2003, 04:09 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Glad to hear the course is back on. I can fully understand your reasons for why ou did what you did. There are no hard feelings on my part.

Jay

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  #28  
Old 05-31-2003, 08:34 PM
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Posted By: julie

thgat you don't like me very much.

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  #29  
Old 05-31-2003, 08:58 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Julie, I like you. And I like poking fun at you once in awhile, as I do most most people. Anyone that told you I don't like you doesn't know me. Anyone that has ever asked me about you, I've said nothing but good things, so your informant is mistaken.

Jay

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  #30  
Old 05-31-2003, 10:13 PM
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Posted By: BcD

I carry "pinky" with me everywhere! I even endorsed them to a few fellow collectors looking for reading material on this board.

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  #31  
Old 05-31-2003, 10:35 PM
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Posted By: BcD

Not seem* when flaming Scott. But trust me, profanity,ethnic and racial,coupled with phenotype slams work best! ( please refer to Tom Laughlin* aka Billy Jack for proof) But hey,you could always rise above and blow it off. We can all be card buds you know.Lastly, nice score on the B/W cough drop cards.I am sure you bought those right and made some good coin on those.I am also certain you will use the money to increase the set completions of your own personal collection which of course is great. Maybe we could all sit at a black jack table at thew National and play cards and drink.Imagine the possibilities!

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  #32  
Old 05-31-2003, 11:33 PM
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Posted By: julie

David:

You told me NOT to send a $75 check--which (it now turns out) you could have used for your summer class. What the hell is going on? You sure did give that appeal a long run--about 4 days! I was in the hospital for 2 days, and had an angeogram; I did cancel the account, and warned you not to deposit the check, because the account was supposed to have 25,000 in it, and hadn't for a long time. You didn't believe me?
You said that the people who were the first to sign up for your class were the very ones who hadn';t contributed to your appeal--as if the two were related! They were NOT. You didn't offer the class until long after you told me NOT to send another check.

I work for nothing, and spent a lot of money studying for three years before i got the job. Any time i want, i can quit.

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  #33  
Old 05-31-2003, 11:37 PM
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Posted By: Elliot

Is it really necessary to post these comments on the board as opposed to using email?

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Old 06-01-2003, 12:36 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

Yet another potshot at attorneys.

Contrary to what you might think, we lawyers (especially the ones in solo or small practices) do a lot of free work. The most basic is the free consultation most lawyers offer clients. If you go to the doctor for a consultation and it turns out you have a cold that he can't help you with, you get billed, right? Not so with an attorney. Probably 90% of the up calls I get do not turn out to be paying cases for me, but I hear out the clients, give them the best advice I can, and I get zippo for my troubles. I've sat on free legal clinic panels on weekends (with lots of my colleagues, BTW), worked up contracts for local charities (girl scouts, temples), been a volunteer arbitrator for the court system, etc. I handled a simple family law matter (a type of case I HATE doing) last year all the way through a trial because I felt sorry for the people who came to me with it. I didn't even get back my out of pocket costs on that one.

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Old 06-01-2003, 02:42 AM
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Posted By: Hankron

Apparently, I've created a soap opera (You know when Elliot chimes in, things have gotten out of hand). I've always been fickle and tempermental (and more than likely always will be). It's just that it usually doesn't get me into trouble as it did this time. Luckily, the course does not start until July 1st, and the dust likely will have settled by then.

Likely it's best for everyone to forget the entire subject for the near future, and come July 1st those who are still interested will start what I hope is an enjoyable and helpful course. In the end, I beleive that those who take the course will find it significantly benificial (my earlier claims about how great the course will be still hold) and will duly forgive me for the feathers I've ruffled.

I should point out that as most people who signed up are interested in early baseball cards, I have decided to include in the subject early photographic cards (ala Old Judges, Four Base Hits). I likely will extended this to closely related baseball photos, such as the Mort Rogers scorecards, CDVs, real photo postcards, etc. These ordinarilly would have been included in the photographs course, but, by not covering these items, I was essentially cutting baseball cards down the middle.

The only promises I can make is that I will stay mum about the entire subject for one month, and the next time I'm fickle and/or tempermental I will keep it offline. If anyone has any questions or comments on the subject before July 1st, he or she is welcome to email me (linked above). Thanks

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Old 06-01-2003, 10:35 AM
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Posted By: runscott

Booklets - in the past we paid you for these - keep charging and people will keep paying. If you choose to offer them in electronic format for free, that's your choice. I have no problem with buying your books - you worked hard on them, they contain great reference material, and I've purchased five so far.

Advice - no one pays you for this, and if you asked advice from them, concerning something that they are more expert on than you, then they should also provide for free. BTW, I give loads of free advice, plenty of it involving considerable research. If you want to get paid for this, you really need to create a price-list and provide supporting documentation - send such a list to anyone who has ever asked you for advice. You may lose some rapport with your fellow board members by doing this, especially if when they solicit advice you send them a price list, but that's what becoming a pro will cost you.

Courses - you've offered a free one, so give it for free. Charge for future ones. I suspect that many people who have heard positive things about you, but aren't interested enough in your field to buy books, probably wanted to attend the free course to find out more about your knowledge. I think the free one would have generated some business for you.

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Old 06-01-2003, 01:11 PM
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Posted By: MW

Julie,

If it makes you feel any better, Jay's a dunderhead :-P

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  #38  
Old 06-01-2003, 01:55 PM
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Posted By: julie

It's what inspired me to explode all over the place.

David--obviously, I don't understand, but PLEASE do not shred or return my check--it's MONEY. And please let me in your class.

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  #39  
Old 06-16-2003, 02:21 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

Whether due to obscure directions or that I'm slow to take a hint, no one showed up for the 2nd class. When the teacher outnumbers the students this time of year, that usually indicuates that either summer break already started, I've accidentally been giving lectures in storage room again, or that the Dean didn't have the heart to tell me that I was fired last semester (that would explain the strange person sitting at my desk every day).

On a similar note, could someone here kindly tell Rick Neuheisel that he's no longer coach and can go home now.

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Old 06-16-2003, 02:38 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I could not make the class since I was out of town picking up my son form the airport and did not return until Friday.

Sorry to hear about teh poor turnout.

Jay

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Old 06-16-2003, 03:53 PM
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Posted By: julie

"cyclebackl" just turned up on our e-mail.

What is the address of your class? I'll type it ten times, and maybe I'll remember.

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Old 06-16-2003, 04:24 PM
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Posted By: julie

...but aren't we supposed to wait for a question from you? Or a something? How do we "go to" your course?

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Old 06-16-2003, 06:57 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

To be honest, Jay, it's not a big deal. I had a strong feeling that it would not prove to be most board member's cup of tea (dry material), despite initial expressed interest. I re-offered it mostly becase you and Leon shamed me into it (Not to suggest that your points were not correct). I will now enjoy the summer break like everyone else. Class and subject is officially closed.

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Old 06-16-2003, 09:11 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

sorry to hear that, but I understand. Thanks for at least making the attempt.

Jay

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Old 06-16-2003, 09:57 PM
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Posted By: leon

I could be mistaking but I think most folks never put the puzzle back together, so to speak. You might have come back and said that you would give the first class for free as you originally planned but.... after there was some misunderstanding I just lost interest in it and/or forgot about it. There are so many things going on in my/our lives that I/we just didn't keep up with when it was, or if it was going on as scheduled, etc.....kudo's for trying though.....enjoy the time off .....best regards

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Old 06-17-2003, 11:22 AM
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Posted By: Jay Miller

I assumed (obviously wrongly) that the "classes" would be emailed out to participants. Otherwise I would have been there.

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Old 06-17-2003, 12:53 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

I more than likely will write a number of short articles on specific subjects. I VERY strongly recommend that folks buy a micscscope of at least 80 times power (many handheld models can be bought for under $20, including on eBay). Otherwise, it's just me and Julie. Most of my little articles are posted at the 'Pack Secrets' link at the website, so merely check periodically.

I beleive most people will find short periodicaly articles more palatable than a lengthy class.

TIP OF THE DAY: HOW TO TELL IF YOUR HARPER'S WOODCUT IS ORIGINAL (Many were reprinted). These Harper's pages (incuding woodcut image, text, articles, etc) were printed on both sides of newsprint, just like a modern newspaper. If the printing (ala the text from an article) shows up as an embossment on the other side of the sheet (On the other side of the paper, you can lightly feel or see that the typing has lightly pressed through), it's an original. Not all orignal Harper's woodcuts will have this opposite side embossment, or the embossment may be too light to tell for sure, but if the embossment is definitely there, the woodcut is the real deal.

If you check today's newspaper, you will see that this quality doesn't exist, because modern newspapers and magazines are printed using a different method.

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  #48  
Old 06-17-2003, 01:40 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

And to fulfill my contractual obligation to this board, I will offer an unprecidented 2nd Tip of the Day (I will, however, require a nap afterwords).

TIP OF THE DAY #2: "IT HAS TO BE A REPRINT, BECAUSE THE PAPER IS TOO WHITE"

Don't fret if the back of that $1,000 1903 Honus Wagner Photograph (Real photo) is snow white, while the backs of the 1930s photos you own are heavily toned.

Turn of the century photographic paper (photo paper is specialty paper, it's not like a writing or typing paper where anything goes) was made using special materials and chemicals. This paper was not only initiallly a bright, often snow, white, but it did not have a tendancy to tone or brown with age. Some years later, the paper formula changed. This later paper not only was initually an off white (not snow white like before), but naturally toned with age. This means that, counterintuitively, the paper on a turn of the century photograph will be expected to be brighter and whiter than, say, a 1930 Babe Ruth.

One last, helpful point. Turn of the century paper photographs (not including postcards)is REAL thin. It is noticeably thinner than anything from modern times, and is easily distinguished from paper even from the 1940s

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Old 06-17-2003, 01:44 PM
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Posted By: Jeff

Hi David,
After reading the posts here. Is it safe to assume that you are not going to be putting anymore info on the web page this thursday for the third class? I thought we were supposed to go to the web page every thursday and read the next lesson. I had never heard that you were sending the classes to everyone (seems easier for everyone to log onto the site. Any way thank you for trying. Jeff

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Old 06-17-2003, 01:44 PM
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Posted By: Hankron

And in case you are wondering why they would have switched to an inferior form of paper, the answer is simple: it was cheaper.

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