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  #1  
Old 04-05-2004, 01:26 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Nickinvegas

Hello,
I have the opportunity to purchase a piece with the Autograph's of Tinker,Evers and Chance. The problem is that it is not authenticated. I am somewhat familiar with the Chance Auto, but I can't say for sure. PSADNA wants $450 to authenticate the three. Does any one have an opinion on the autographs or is there a service out there that can offer an opinion based on the images below before I shell out the money for the piece and the $450 for the authentication? "Quick Opinion" will only do it for Ebay auctions.

Thanks,
Nick





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Old 04-05-2004, 02:04 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

I believe that William Tell Research will do it. Their website is

http://www.williamtell.us/

I think it would be good to have someone look at it. I would be a little suspect on the Chance and Tinker autographs. The ends of many of the pen strokes show a heavy dot of ink, indicating that the pen was held longer at the end of the letter formation. Typically, the heavy ink dot occurs at the beginning of the pen stroke. Just my two cents. Good luck with it!!

Rob

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  #3  
Old 04-05-2004, 02:06 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

that I am not familiar with their 'graphs and the letter formation may stylistically correct for these guys.

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Old 04-05-2004, 02:45 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

If the three autographs are included in one piece, you should be able to send the item in as a multiple signed piece. Check with PSA/DNA. If so, the cost would be $ 150.00.

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Old 04-05-2004, 02:59 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Harry

I am always very leery of autographs, but these look especially funny.

I would ask where these signatures came from and what type of document or piece of paper they are on. They all have a very similar look to me.

Also, find out what type of pen was used. It does not look like fountain pen to me.

Lastly, I have not heard good things about William Tell.

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  #6  
Old 04-05-2004, 03:11 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

Set up a bogus eBay auction with a very high reserve. Use your scans and have Quick Opinion look at them. Then pull the auction. I have seen this done multiple times.

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Old 04-05-2004, 03:23 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Nickinvegas

Rob,
You are a creative guy, we could use a guy like you here in Sin City!

Regards,
Nick

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  #8  
Old 04-05-2004, 03:25 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

Nick, an age old trick. If you try, let us know how it goes!

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Old 04-05-2004, 03:26 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: hankron

Isn't the seller supposed to be providing the proof of authenticity to the buyer, and not the other way round?

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  #10  
Old 04-05-2004, 03:33 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Rob L

It would be nice if the buyer would always provide some sort of authentication to the buyer, but they usually will come up with some sort of excuse (I obtained this from an estate, obtained it from the original owner who was a collector, etc.). They may even provide their own COA. As with all baseball memorabilia, the buyer needs to conduct the research to be certain to themselves that they are buying an authentic piece. It sucks that it has to work this way. Let the buyer beware!!

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  #11  
Old 04-05-2004, 03:39 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: hankron

I have yet to buy a Joe Tinker autograph from a seller who provides an excuse in lieu of an LOA.

If an unfamiliar seller of a premium signature like Tinker can't provide a legitimate LOA or proof that he bought it from a reliable source, don't even bother worrying about it. He can contact PSA/DNA or Mike Gutierez as easy as you can.

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  #12  
Old 04-05-2004, 05:00 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: hankron

I duly note that I'm only saying what I would do, and am not saying that others can't do differently.

My feeling is that, for autograph collectors, there are enough quality and well known sellers (including numerous on eBay) and enough items that come with good LOAs, that I don't see the point in wasting one's time worrying about autographs being offered by strangers who can't provide a good LOA or proof of where they got it. If your neighbor says she was a secretary for Frank Sinatra and comes with a box of seemingly legitimate documents and contracts and letters and tickets and photos including some documents apparently signed by Frank, that's certainly worth looking into--, but there are exceptions to every rule. And if you find a rule with out an exception, that proves me right.

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  #13  
Old 04-05-2004, 09:55 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: Nickinvegas

The seller should have provenance and a cert from PSADNA or Mike Gutierez,but if he did he would be selling for alot more than he might sell it to me for. If he had a cert. and proper provenance I would guess that the market would be around $4-5K for an item like this one.Unfortunataly I have chosen a carrer that is helpfull, but I am not wealthy. I enjoy finding items at a bargain price and getting them graded,framed or putting them in my shop and reselling for a profit(I do keep some, shhh..don't tell the wifey.)

It is true I take my chances with these kind of things,but us bottom feeders gotta do what we can!

Nick

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  #14  
Old 04-05-2004, 10:16 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: hankron

does PSA/DNA count them as cards for their $20 or whatever card grading/entombing deal? I have seen PSA/DNA entombed signed index cards. If they do, that would be an inexpensive way to go.

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  #15  
Old 04-10-2004, 12:27 PM
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Default Autograph Authentication

Posted By: GraphGuy

You are dealing with a piece that contains three signatures that are available in limited supply and have an above average demand. "Cuts" or similar items, such as those in your frame, are the easiest pieces to forge and give those doing so the highest return on their investment (which is essentially nothing). As a collector with years of experience in the autograph field I would RUN (not walk) away from this piece as though it were on fire. If authentic, this combo would sell in the $3500-$4500 range with no problem. Also, as previously stated, I have never heard a good word about William Tell Research other than from Coaches Corner who's ethics are questionable at best (if you need proof of this buy an autograph from one of their auctions. It will come with a photocopied certificate that warrents the authenticity for 30 days. After that your on your own). BUYER BEWARE.

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