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  #1001  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:47 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


.... Sweet Caporal ..... Sovereign ......... Piedmont_____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards_____ Sovereign….American Beauty...…. UZIT


This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, it was "the start of of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Claude Raines to Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #951 >> 961.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards

Posts #962 >> 984.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards (Re-visited)

Posts #985 >> 1000....... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1001 >> 1002..... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

Posts #1004 >> 1030.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; Yesterday at 08:07 PM.
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  #1002  
Old 05-28-2020, 06:30 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE...... the "poor man's" T206 Joe Doyle "Nat'L" card

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Two more new inputs to this Joe Doyle survey. Neither of these 2 inputs have this "printer's mark" in their caption. This 13-year Survey suggests to us that we can expect
to find this "printer's mark" on a Joe Doyle card on the average of only ONE out of every 16 cards.




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Printer's mark - -^



UPDATED May 28, 2020 (374 unique samples)


T-brand.............Mark.....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........13..........147

Sweet Cap 350.......7...........140

Polar Bear..............4............32

Old Mill..................1.............7

Sovereign 350.........0...........17

Tolstoi....................0.............6

EPDG.....................0.............2
____________________________

Totals.................. 23 ........ 351

23 - Joe Doyle cards with this printer's mark...... 23/374 = 6.15%


Hey guys, interest in this topic has diminished; therefore, unless there are any more
responses......this ends the Joe Doyle "printer's mark" substitute for his "Nat'L" card.

Moving on to the next T206 topic, so stay tuned.


TED Z
.
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  #1003  
Old 07-08-2020, 02:30 PM
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Leon Leon is offline
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This is a very friendly bump so we know this hugely important file didn't get lost in our database crash.
__________________
Leon Luckey
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  #1004  
Old 07-13-2020, 04:30 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Tell us of your first experience(s) regarding the BB card Show where you acquired your first T206 cards. I'll begin with my story which is from 40 years ago.

In the 1970's - 1980's, two of the major BB card Shows in the East were in Willow Grove and Valley Forge (Pennsylvania). They were situated in the George Washington
Motor Lodge Convention Halls. Bob Schmierer and Ted Taylor promoted the Willow Grove Show. Tony and Rose Carrafiell promoted the Valley Forge Show. Major Dealers
loaded with unbelievable stuff were set-up at these Shows

In 1980, Bill Heitman published his book "The T206 Monster". It motivated me to start a T206 set, so I drove to Willow Grove. Upon entering the Show, I was amazed at
the size of the crowd. After several hours of maneuvering, I achieved my goals. I acquired a bunch of T206's, some 1949 LEAF's, 1949 BOWMAN stars and 1952 TOPP's.
Enough said, here are the highlights of my BB card purchases on that 1st visit to the Willow Grove Show. I'm happy to say that these cards are still in my collection.


This is my very first T206 (cost me $20)

.





1949 LEAF Stan Musial rare light blue variation (paid $25)........and, 1949 BOWMAN Paige (which I traded two 1952 TOPPS Hi #s for)

. . . .




1952 TOPPS Billy Martin's rookie card (paid $15)






Look forward to reading your stories.



TED Z
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  #1005  
Old 07-13-2020, 06:18 PM
jggames jggames is offline
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Mine wasnít at a card show, I hope thatís ok. Iím from the middle of nowhere Kansas. We didnít have many shows to go to but somehow at about 12 years old I got on the Fritsch catalog mailing list. I can still picture what I think that black and white newspaper print cover looked like, because itís the only reason I knew T206s were special. There was a Doyle, a Magie, a Plank and a Wagner. Inside, the prices for a couple of those cards were in ranges I knew my piggy bank couldnít hold.

There must have been an advertisement for an auction house because within a year I was on the phone during visits to my grandparents house bidding on cards. I never won a T206.

Fast forward a couple years and weíre about to take a roadtrip to Philadelphia to visit family. I was 14 and checked out a Pennsylvania yellowpages from the library and wrote down every card shop that had big advertisements around philly. This was 1987 so there were a few. I mowed and collected cans for 3 weeks trying to make money for the trip. On the way we stopped at one shop in Lancaster, Iíll never forget it because every once in a while Iíll have a dream about thumbing through raw T206s there.

I bought these 3 cards and even though theyíre Piedmont and Sweet Cap 350s, theyíre a permanent part of the (mostly) off-back monster binder I just started building last year...my first major purchases since 1987.

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  #1006  
Old 07-13-2020, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Hi Jason

Any means of acquiring the first T206 cards for your collection goes. I didn't mean to limit this topic only to BB card Show acquisitions.

And, your's is a great story. Brought back 1980's memories of Larry Fritsch.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
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  #1007  
Old 07-14-2020, 12:00 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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I moved to Arlington Ma in 1977, and being closer to the big city (I was from small towns, lots of land but under 10K people) I figured there might be someplace that sold old baseball cards. How little I knew that there were hardly any shops anywhere....
But there was one in town!
started hanging out there, and really liked the T206s, but wasn't really ready to spring a whole 1.50 for a decent one.
One day the guy running the shop said he had something for me. A T206! and only 20 cents! who cared if it didn't have one of the pastel scenery backgrounds? Or that it had creases so bad it was nearly torn in half?
It was Mine! They even let me use some scotch invisible tape to make sure it made it home in one piece.

I'd post the scan, but Ö.. maybe later when I don't have to hunt through my computer for it.

The guys at Halls would occasionally save stuff for me, especially nearly unsaleable items that might encourage me to collect more... My P-2 is even worse, but was free...
A good investment on their part.
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  #1008  
Old 07-14-2020, 07:15 AM
MVSNYC MVSNYC is offline
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Hi Ted!

Summer of '91, a few years after moving to Bethlehem, PA (from Long Island), I started going to local card shows. I vividly remember going to a show at the Trolley Station Mall and seeing my first T206 cards; I was hooked from the beginning. I've been fascinated with them ever since, almost 30 years.

Here's some of my first cards, 2 of which I got that day in 1991, and still have...
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  #1009  
Old 07-14-2020, 01:21 PM
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brianp-beme brianp-beme is online now
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At my first show in 1981 I picked up these two T206 cards (plus 3 other 1910 era Hall of Famer cards) at the first table upon entering (on the right hand side, in case you were wondering) for all of the piggy bank money I brought, which was not a lot. I checked out the rest of the show, but had no more to spend. They were my first vintage cards, and I still have all five of them.

Brian
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  #1010  
Old 07-14-2020, 07:04 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Steve....Mike....Brian

Some very interesting stories, guys. Thanks for posting them.


Hey Mike

We may have met back then, I used to set-up at shows in the Allentown area.


TED Z
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  #1011  
Old 07-14-2020, 08:35 PM
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Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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I don't remember the specific show (some show in Northern Virginia), and I am not sure the year (probably around 1986), but my first T206 was a Bresnahan Batting, and I am pretty sure it was a Piedmont (not sure the series). I loved it. It was so small and old and I thought it was very special. Whenever I "traded" with friends -- and we did that all the time -- everyone wanted my tobacco card, but no 1975 Gary Carter, 1983 Boggs or 1984 Donruss Mattingly could pry Roger from me. I don't think i knew at the time that he was a Hall of Famer.

A few years later I picked up a Cy Young with Glove, which then became my all-time favorite card. Each time I got back into collecting (this being my 3rd time), Cy Young with Glove with an early must purchase.
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  #1012  
Old 07-15-2020, 07:57 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I don't remember the specific show (some show in Northern Virginia), and I am not sure the year (probably around 1986), but my first T206 was a Bresnahan Batting, and I am pretty sure it was a Piedmont (not sure the series). I loved it. It was so small and old and I thought it was very special. Whenever I "traded" with friends -- and we did that all the time -- everyone wanted my tobacco card, but no 1975 Gary Carter, 1983 Boggs or 1984 Donruss Mattingly could pry Roger from me. I don't think i knew at the time that he was a Hall of Famer.

A few years later I picked up a Cy Young with Glove, which then became my all-time favorite card. Each time I got back into collecting (this being my 3rd time), Cy Young with Glove with an early must purchase.
Hi Ryan

Thanks for telling us your story. And now 34 years later you have a complete 524-card T206 set.... https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=284539

A "MEGA" Congratulations to you.....you are the man !

Take care my friend,

TED Z
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  #1013  
Old 07-15-2020, 11:39 AM
MVSNYC MVSNYC is offline
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Ted, very possible! I used to goto shows also at the Whitehall Mall, Palmer Mall, Phillipsburg Mall, Merchant Square Mall, etc...

I think we first met at the old Fort Washington shows, circa early 90ís.

And obviously we have done a few stealth deals in NJ & NYC!
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  #1014  
Old 07-16-2020, 11:40 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVSNYC View Post
Ted, very possible! I used to goto shows also at the Whitehall Mall, Palmer Mall, Phillipsburg Mall, Merchant Square Mall, etc...

I think we first met at the old Fort Washington shows, circa early 90ís.

And obviously we have done a few stealth deals in NJ & NYC!

Mike

The first Fort Washington (Philly) Shows was in March 1993. I think your recollection is correct when we first met at my booth. We've been wheeling-n-dealing for about 26 years now.

It's amazing how time flies when you're having fun.

Take care my friend.

TED Z
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  #1015  
Old 07-17-2020, 05:47 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Continuing from Post #1004 regarding the Willow Grove Show. My good ole buddy, Dan Paley, was a H.S. classmate of Bob Schmierer who gave us Dealer tables at the Show.
What an experience it was in the early 1980's. I felt like I went from an amateur dealer to a "professional" dealer overnite that first weekend. Anyhow the story I'm getting to
here is the dealer across from my set-up. Some of you old-timers may remember Wayne Miller. Friday afternoon, on his 12-feet of table space, he'd place a large white sheet.
He would arrange 100's of T206 cards on the sheet. A large group of commons on the left (priced at $2 - 4). The stars on the right. You could purchase any one of the 4 Cobb
cards (Vg - Ex) for a mere $15 - 20 each. Typically by Saturday, he had sold all his T206's. Sunday he would replenish his inventory and by the end of the Show he had only a
few left to take home. It was quite a sight to watch Wayne's operation. Needless to say, I acquired a good number of T206 cards from him.


On display here is a Willow Grove Show program from those years. It contained several pages of very worthwhile information (Dealers, Table layout, etc.) regarding the Show.
On the back of this program was an advertisement for the tremendous Seafood Restaurant (only a short walk from the Convention Center). The Boston Sea Party was a very
popular restaurant in the 1970's-1990's. T'was a consistently excellent franchise, as I will attest to, having eaten at this one, in Denver, Carol Stream (IL) and Cherry Hill (NJ).


. .




Gee guys.....I'm sure you have some really interesting T206 stories to tell.....so why not share them with us.


TED Z
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  #1016  
Old 07-17-2020, 06:09 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
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Thanks for the prompt Ted. I have shared this story before. I begged my mom to buy Steve Clark's The Complete Book of Baseball Cards from Pickwick bookstore in the Montclair (California) Plaza mall circa 1978. Which she did because I never asked for much. The T206 images in that book sparked my life-long love affair with the set. But I didn't acquire my first T206s until 1981 at a baseball card shop in Claremont, CA called "The Baseball Card Shoppe." I guess the extra "pe" after "shop" made it sound more erudite. Thumbing through page after page in shopkeeper Mark's T206 binder, I found nice EX copies of Alperman, Gilbert, Rhodes and Schreck, which I bought for $3 each. Alas, I couldn't afford the EX Cobb in the holder for $75 or the other Hall of Famers offered for about $50 per.

Last edited by sreader3; 07-17-2020 at 06:11 PM.
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  #1017  
Old 07-18-2020, 06:08 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreader3 View Post
Thanks for the prompt Ted. I have shared this story before. I begged my mom to buy Steve Clark's The Complete Book of Baseball Cards from Pickwick bookstore in the Montclair (California) Plaza mall circa 1978. Which she did because I never asked for much. The T206 images in that book sparked my life-long love affair with the set. But I didn't acquire my first T206s until 1981 at a baseball card shop in Claremont, CA called "The Baseball Card Shoppe." I guess the extra "pe" after "shop" made it sound more erudite. Thumbing through page after page in shopkeeper Mark's T206 binder, I found nice EX copies of Alperman, Gilbert, Rhodes and Schreck, which I bought for $3 each. Alas, I couldn't afford the EX Cobb in the holder for $75 or the other Hall of Famers offered for about $50 per.
Hi Scot

Great story, thanks for sharing it with us. It's interesting that in 1981 a Cobb was selling for $75. I guess that was "California prices" back then. On the East coast, a Cobb (Ex) was
selling for about $40 in 1981.

Take care my friend,

TED Z
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  #1018  
Old 07-23-2020, 06:05 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Hey guys,

We've had several very interesting stories posted here. I could continue telling my stories from 44 years ago, but I rather hear your stories. It's always fun to reminisce about
our early BB hobby days. Therefore, I'm bumping this thread back up to Net54's 1st page hoping you will chime in with your story.
Don't be shy, just let it fly

If no new stories are posted here, I will have to tell you my story of how I acquired these two "gems" at a New Jersey show (Spring 1982). A really great experience.


. . . . . . . . . . . .


Thanks,

TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 07-28-2020 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #1019  
Old 07-26-2020, 07:46 AM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
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I unfortunately don't have any old card show stories acquiring my first T206's. But I remember T206's at the shows I'd go to. My first card show was in 1985. I was a bit late with the card shows. Earlier on, I was going to coin shows starting in 1980. But back to cards. I wasn't really in my comfort zone until 1989. But before that, I just didn't feel welcome at the vintage tables. Dealers didn't take me seriously and were not interested in talking to me like they were with others their own age. By 1989 I was more comfortable around them but I really didn't know anything about the cards from that time period and knew nothing about reprints. 1989 was an insane time to be at a card show. With the new release of Upper Deck and the Fleer Billy Ripken FF Error, it was an incredible experience. I didn't purchase my first T206 which was also my first pre-war card, until 2010. I had spent a couple years before that trying to learn as much as I could, just by searching the internet. It was Net54 where I learned the most. After my first few purchases of T206's, I then joined Net54. Starting T206's and joining Net54 were two of the best decisions I've made. I've gone from knowing nothing about the set, to being an advanced collector of T206's. Unfortunately I haven't added too many to my set since money is tighter and prices have sky rocketed. I occasionally think about what I could have in exchange for my T206 collection. Maybe one day I'll look further into it.
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T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5255
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #1020  
Old 07-26-2020, 06:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Ron

Interesting story, in just 10 years you have achieved a lot regarding Tobacco cards....the real stuff and knowledge there of.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
.
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  #1021  
Old 07-28-2020, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




In the early 1980's, the biggest BB card Show in NJ was situated in the Meadowlands. Most of the big-time Dealers back then set up at this Show, starting with Barry Halper.
My 2 main missions that day in the Spring of 1982 were....acquiring some 1949 LEAF 2nd series (short-print) cards for my set. And to further my new project, The Monster.

I made the rounds of the dealer tables, and found quite a number of T206 cards to choose from. I spotted this sharp-looking Walter Johnson. I had to get it for my T206 set.
A friendly dealer from St. Louis sold it to me for ? ?
I leave it up to you to figure out what I paid for this Ex-MT card


At the far end of the showroom, I met Rick Starks and Jim Johnson, dealers from Erie (PA). I'll never forget them...... They made my day !
Their display had a 1949 LEAF Satchell Paige rookie card. I did not have much cash left, but I did have some cards for trade. Rick selected my 1955 TOPPS Ted Williams and
my Reggie Jackson rookie. The value of those 2 cards did not quite equal the price of the Paige card. I had just $100 left with me and I offered it to them. Rick gave me back
$20, so that I would have some cash for gas on my long trip back home.

We talked a while about the source of rare LEAF cards. Jim said they had acquired a large collection on a buying trip in Ohio that had a good number of these rare LEAF cards.
I noticed that they also had 4 more LEAF (Short-Prints)...... Whitey Kurowski, Danny Murtaugh, Eddie Stewart, and Harry Walker. I asked them if they could mail them to me.
Rick packaged up these 4 cards and gave them to me and told me to mail them a check when I returned home.

Subsequently, at the Willow Grove Show, Rick and Jim brought me about a couple of dozen 1949 LEAF Short-Print cards. They priced them at $25 each, which was a very fair
price back in those days. This made quite a dent in my want-list towards completing this most difficult of the post-WWII sets.


. .



.


TED Z
.
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  #1022  
Old 07-28-2020, 07:54 PM
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Tao_Moko Tao_Moko is offline
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I was 10 years old in the mid eighties and got my first "office" job after having grown up doing farm labor. That job was at a baseball card shop in Portsmouth Ohio. I was a subscriber to Lew Lipset's The Old Judge and really interested in the history of baseball. I had the key to open the shop, combo to unlock the safe and was even granted buying power 🤣. There were still walk ins with shoe boxes, but not often. A lot of early '70's cards in beat up shape mostly. However, one day a Clark Griffith portrait walked in the door and was had for $10. It had tape on it, creased and stained ,but that was all it took. I had the fever and still do 35 years later. My 13 years in the Marine Corps were largely absent for collecting but otherwise it has been a part of my life.
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  #1023  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:40 AM
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maniac_73 maniac_73 is offline
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I can't contribute much to this thread since I'm still learning and grew up during the junk era of the 90's. Just getting into vintage the last few years and the stories here are awesome! Thanks Ted and everyone for sharing!
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  #1024  
Old 07-29-2020, 08:33 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Kali Mera....Costa

I'm assuming you are Greek.

Thanks for the compliments.

This is the place to be for vintage BB card knowledge.


TED Z
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  #1025  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




The guy responsible for my "fascination" for collecting T206 front/back permutations is our old Net54 member Barry Sloate. I remember this as it was only yesterday, when
I responded to Barry's SCD Adv. in the Spring of 1983. Barry was selling cards from a 1949 BOWMAN set. I needed some tough Hi #'s to complete my 2nd set. We were on
the phone for over an hour....Talkin' BB cards. Besides BOWMAN's, we also talked T206's. Barry sold me this Lundgren, it was the very first T206 in my collection that had a
Tobacco brand other than the usual PIEDMONT, SWEET CAPORAL, or OLD MILL. And, as they say.... "the rest is history".
Furthermore, years later when I started my all - SOVEREIGN set of T206's, Barry had acquired a large collection of T206's. Included in this find was a significant number of
SOVEREIGN cards. He contacted me, and I purchased 270 different SOVEREIGN cards. That was quite a boost for me, since 408 cards are needed to complete this set.



. .


TED Z
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  #1026  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:01 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
The guy responsible for my "fascination" for collecting T206 front/back permutations is our old Net54 member Barry Sloate. I remember this as it was only yesterday, when
I responded to Barry's SCD Adv. in the Spring of 1983. Barry was selling cards from a 1949 BOWMAN set. I needed some tough Hi #'s to complete my 2nd set. We were on
the phone for over an hour....Talkin' BB cards. Besides BOWMAN's, we also talked T206's. Barry sold me this Lundgren, it was the very first T206 in my collection that had a
Tobacco brand other than the usual PIEDMONT, SWEET CAPORAL, or OLD MILL. And, as they say.... "the rest is history".
Furthermore, years later when I started my all - SOVEREIGN set of T206's, Barry had acquired a large collection of T206's. Included in this find was a significant number of
SOVEREIGN cards. He contacted me, and I purchased 270 different SOVEREIGN cards. That was quite a boost for me, since 408 cards are needed to complete this set.



. .


TED Z
.
That's a great memory of your Lundgren EPDG. I also have a memory for the same exact card. I was in the hospital and on very high doses of narcotics for pain. But that wasn't going to stop me from searching the newest T206 listings on eBay. The next day I noticed a reminder to pay for my purchase on eBay. I thought that was odd since I don't remember purchasing anything. Well, guess what? I was the proud owner of a SGC 60 Lundgren Chicago EPDG. Luckily I did need the combination but probably would have waited on the card to come around at a lower less expensive grade. Never surf eBay or the internet while under the influence lol


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T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5255
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #1027  
Old 08-01-2020, 07:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
That's a great memory of your Lundgren EPDG. I also have a memory for the same exact card. I was in the hospital and on very high doses of narcotics for pain. But that wasn't going to stop me from searching the newest T206 listings on eBay. The next day I noticed a reminder to pay for my purchase on eBay. I thought that was odd since I don't remember purchasing anything. Well, guess what? I was the proud owner of a SGC 60 Lundgren Chicago EPDG. Luckily I did need the combination but probably would have waited on the card to come around at a lower less expensive grade. Never surf eBay or the internet while under the influence lol




Ron

Truly a great story. And, what an amazing coincidence, we both posted stories regarding exactly the same T206 card. Imagine the probability of this occurrence ?
After all, it's not just any "old run of the mill T206." It's one of the toughest T206's in the Elite 11 group. I really appreciate you posting your story here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

. .

TED Z
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  #1028  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:24 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki - Uncle Nacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Ron

Truly a great story. And, what an amazing coincidence, we both posted stories regarding exactly the same T206 card. Imagine the probability of this occurrence ?
After all, it's not just any "old run of the mill T206." It's one of the toughest T206's in the Elite 11 group. I really appreciate you posting your story here.
Thanks Ted for the positive responses and great history. I just thought it was great that we both had a back story on the same card. These little cardboard pieces of history do occasionally have a personal back story. I think it adds to the overall enjoyment of collecting. I've been collecting nearly all my life, 40 out of 46 years, and I have more stories with just the T206 set than I do with all my other collectibles combined. This set has been a big part in my life over the last 10 years. Earlier today I was talking to someone about if you were forced to evacuate your location for good and could only take a backpack of items, I said that I'd be cracking 1500+ slabs of T206's and adding them with my other non graded ones and that would be going into the backpack first. Followed by a handful of rare coins, my half dime collection, and gold. Lastly, my medication. The backpack thing might make a great forum topic for someone to start.
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T206 Master Monster Front/Back Set Collector - www.youtube.com/unclenacki
T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5255
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #1029  
Old 08-05-2020, 08:27 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
Thanks Ted for the positive responses and great history. I just thought it was great that we both had a back story on the same card. These little cardboard pieces of history do occasionally have a personal back story. I think it adds to the overall enjoyment of collecting. I've been collecting nearly all my life, 40 out of 46 years, and I have more stories with just the T206 set than I do with all my other collectibles combined. This set has been a big part in my life over the last 10 years. Earlier today I was talking to someone about if you were forced to evacuate your location for good and could only take a backpack of items, I said that I'd be cracking 1500+ slabs of T206's and adding them with my other non graded ones and that would be going into the backpack first. Followed by a handful of rare coins, my half dime collection, and gold. Lastly, my medication. The backpack thing might make a great forum topic for someone to start.
Ron

A rough calculation results in at least 1 Million to 1 probability factor of both of us coming up with our totally independent stories revolving around the identical T206 Lundgren card.
However, it is evident from our numerous conversations on Net54 over the years, that this extraordinary coincidence may not be as unusual as it appears to be. We do think alike in
quite a number of factors regarding the T206 cards. As the saying goes: "great minds think alike"


TED Z
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  #1030  
Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE.....Reminiscing about your 1st BB card Show where you acquired T206's

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Just a friendly bump to get some more interesting stories on how you got started on your adventure collecting T206 cards......whether it was putting together the set,
or specializing in your particular project(s) regarding T206's.

Before I leave you, here's my short-story regarding my first DRUM card. Circa 1984 at Willow Grove, a mid-west dealer had four DRUM cards for sale. He wanted $100
for each of them (they were VgEx cards). I offered $350 for the four. He adamantly said....NO !
I said I'd think about them. The more I thought about them, the more I wanted them. At the end of the day, I went back to his table with $400, but he had sold them.

I told Barry Sloate about my foolish regret regarding the four DRUMS. Barry made me a $100 bet that I would not find another T206 DRUM within a year.
Six months later, Barry says he has a DRUM card for me. And, I can have it for free since he lost our bet. So here is my first DRUM card.
If I recall correctly, it is the only known DRUM card of Moeller. However, I may be proven wrong about that.


. .


OK, time for your sharing your stories with us.


TED Z
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