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#1
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Posted By: steve
I just do not understand the whole PSA 10 theory. I have owned several/closely examined several - they should not be in "10" slabs !!! |
#2
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I agree, the grade is completely arbitrary in most cases and sometimes even wrong, but people whose goal in life is to rank the highest on the set registry will pay insane prices for the 10 label. So what can ya do. EDIT TO ADD I think there may be a thread on here about the 65 Koufax leaders card in PSA 10 that went for 20K. |
#3
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Posted By: Brad
It seems most people can’t think for themselves when analyzing cards and would fell more comfortable letting a 3rd party do it for them ($). |
#4
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Posted By: Dave F
Since seemlingly all my cards are pre-world war 1 I don't think i'll ever have to worry about having to judge a PSA 10 in my collection. |
#5
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Posted By: Dave Williams
What I find absurd is say Post Cereal, Bazooka, Strip Card issues, that if just a tiny bit of the dotted line is missing, it's Authentic. |
#6
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Posted By: Jason L
The multiples that people pay for 10s over 9s is astounding. That's why I stick to the 9s with the more recent stuff that I collect for the fun of competing on the Registry. |
#7
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Posted By: peter chao
PSA 10s are overpriced, but if you go to the right local card show, you can buy them at a discount just like any other card. |
#8
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Posted By: Bill
I like to purchase SGC preferably with pre-war cards. Granted, I know it's not 100% but I don't have a vast amount of knowledge to tell some fakes or microscopic trim jobs. For that reason, I'll purchase the graded cards and most of the time, just bust them out if I'm keeping it for my collection. If I intend to resell it down the road, I leave it in. |
#9
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Posted By: Brian
<<PSA 10s are overpriced, but if you go to the right local card show, you can buy them at a discount just like any other card.>> |
#10
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Posted By: marty quinn
pete c, next time you go to the local card show please pick me up a 1953 topps mantle at discount, i will pay a finders fee, thanks pete...just a joke pete, i needed a laugh.. |
#11
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Posted By: Davalillo
I agree --go for the 9s. |
#12
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Posted By: D. C. Markel
Steve, |
#13
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Posted By: Rich Klein
Trust me; NO ONE is discounting vintage PSA 10's. However, in the modern world; cards such as the 1989 Topps Traded Ken Griffey Jr card are available at a discount at shows/internet. |
#14
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Posted By: Jason L
and if it is, shame on you! They came up with an amazing marketing-product idea. |
#15
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Posted By: steve
No, I am not PSA bashing. I don't care if the card is a "10" in a Donald Duck slab - if the characteristics are such that it should not be a "10" - it should not be a "10" - by any grader. Yes, PSA sometimes gets it right. Steve. |
#16
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Posted By: leon
The grade of a "10" is so rare in Pre-War that I think it's almost a moot question. How many "10" pre-war cards are there for sale each year? Answer- not too many.... The whole registry thing is certainly a great marketing idea..no one can discount that....regards |
#17
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Posted By: Al C.risafulli
I am not a card grader, so I cannot tell the difference between a 9 and a 10. Generally, I don't inspect my cards closely enough to care. |
#18
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Posted By: Red
"If the characteristics are such that it should not be a "10" - it should not be a "10" - by any grader." |
#19
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Posted By: dan mckee
Yes 10's are the most overrated, then 9's, then 8's, then 7's etc.. etc.. |
#20
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Posted By: Jim Dale
Its interesting what PSA does with its "10s." There was a PSA 9 Nolan Ryan rookie that sold for 10k a few months ago - I think the buyer thought it could become the lone ten or why pay 2x waht the previous 9's were selling for? The card looked awesome - I could not see what brought it down to a '9." Then go and study some of the PSA 10 Montana rookie cards - OMG - they allow a more then 60/40 off center back be a 10. Want to see one - email me. |
#21
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Posted By: Rich Klein
Of which, as Al said there is still a plethora of unopened available; or unpicked stock; try to finish a set in PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 or SGC 98, etc; I give you 2 words -- good luck. Quality control on some of these sets were hideous: Quick example 1981 Donruss Keith Hernandez -- trust me on this one. |
#22
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Posted By: peter chao
Rich, |
#23
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Posted By: barrysloate
I think the only vintage cards that could ever grade a 10 would be Fan Craze, National Game, etc., as well as the 13 known T206 (out of about a billion). |
#24
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Posted By: Marc S.
Barry- |
#25
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Posted By: Brian
I will try again Peter, you said --- |
#26
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Posted By: peter chao
I only know about Bay Area Shows, there's a show every 2-3 months in Santa Clara and there's a show every weekend in Hayward, CA. Normally, Beckett's online will give you the dates and times of these shows on their calendar. |
#27
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Barry, |
#28
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Posted By: Brian
And Peter you say that these shows sell PSA 10s at a discout. Which years, which cards, and how much of a discount? |
#29
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Posted By: peter chao
It's mostly the modern cards, from about 1985 to 1989 at about 20% discount, but you need to spend time negotiating and at some shows you won't find any available. |
#30
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Posted By: Brian
Sorry Peter, since this is a vintage board, I foolishly thought you were speaking about vintage cards. Apologies. |
#31
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Posted By: peter chao
Brian, |
#32
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Posted By: Brian
Perhaps you could share your vast knowledge of the modern market here http://www.network54.com/Index/83587 ? |
#33
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Posted By: barrysloate
I guess there are a few others. Of course to me a 9 and 10 look the same. |
#34
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Posted By: Eric Brehm
I suppose that if you look at any card long enough, you can find something about it that isn't "perfect." But there are some cards that really stand out from all others as being exceptionally well produced and preserved. Like pornography, you know it when you see it, I guess. |
#35
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Posted By: Brad
IF you were to cracked out the same cards listed above and resubmit them, do you think the cards would receive PSA 10??? I believe it all depends on who's submitting the cards! hmmm... |
#36
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Posted By: Jim Dale
EXCELLENT point. I don't for a moment believe that I have nearly the chance of getting a PSA 10 with a 10 to 20 card submission as the big dealers with 100's of cards going through do. Its theory, it can't hardly be proven unless someone wants to spend the cash, but I just don't for the life of me believe all submissions are considered equal. Sorry - just no trust. That said I still buy 10's when I can from ebay and other sources. |
#37
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Posted By: JimCrandell
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#38
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Posted By: Brad
Here's an extremely high graded 51 Mantle an SGC 96, most prewar collectors consider SGC as being the toughest grading Co. in the industry. |
#39
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Posted By: Scot Reader
PSA's GEM MINT 10 is a business construct designed to inflate the value of a small percentage of cards (and by extension the value of PSA services) beyond what should objectively be realized. It has succeeded as a business construct but fails as a logical construct. |
#40
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Posted By: Al C.risafulli
So the SGC 101 REALLY PRISTINE would be out of the question, then? |
#41
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Posted By: MVSNYC
scot- |
#42
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Posted By: Brad
PSA 10 = SGC96! Thoughts... |
#43
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Posted By: Bill
Well, my belief is if you don't like the way grading companies run their show, don't deal with them. It's as simple as that. Some people want their cards to look as good as possible and will pay what they can for that card. To some people, obtaining cards in that high of a grade is part of the challenge for them and they like the chase. To say that a grade is overrated makes no sense. To one person, it may be a waste of money. To the next, it's part of their collecting hobby. |
#44
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Posted By: James Gallo
Here is how the modern card world compares the 3 companies |
#45
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Posted By: Anonymous
It seems like you are just upset because you cant afford the higher grades. I say if you are going to accept one of the companies opinions you must accept all of them. So if you think a PSA 5 is a 5 then a PSA 10 is a 10. If you dont agree with the grading system go ahead and crack your cards out of their holders and make your own case. Lets see you sell the card then, I would really be impressed if someone " bought the card and not the grade". The 3rd party graders have to factor error in especially with pre 1960's because not even the machines we use today are always precise. And the most important point is without these 3rd party graders we would have no uniform system to measure the quality of cards, so unless the whole card community wants to vote on every card grade together we must accept their comments. |
#46
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Posted By: barrysloate
We still don't have a uniform system to grade and evaluate cards. Each of the grading companies has somewhat different criteria, and each exhibits at least some level of inconsistency. |
#47
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Posted By: Paul
I don't get it. Just about everyone who has posted has agreed that the "Gem Mint" grade is awarded arbitrarily. Some may blame the grader, some may blame bias in favor of the submitter, and some may blame random luck. But the bottom line is, almost everyone agrees it is not based on merit. |
#48
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Posted By: dan mckee
I gladly would buy his cards in his own holder and not the grade. I buy tons of raw cards but I really do not care about the condition if I need it for my set. I surely do not need anyone to tell me what condition it is in. I understand that many of you buy for different reasons, investment etc.. And in those cases, yes, you need the 3rd party grading services. The grading services are also needed because of the amount of fraud on the internet. Dan. |
#49
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Posted By: Bill
"And I know people want a collecting challenge. But is it really fun to try to collect only those cards that have been arbitrarily awarded an arbitrary grade? Why not just collect only "9"s that have a serial number ending in "7"? That would be equally challenging." |
#50
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Posted By: Alan
If you ever attend one of those National PSA luncheons, you'll realize the registry is really just a friendly competitive fraternity. It's sort of like when classmates compete for the prettiest coed. |
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