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  #1  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:10 PM
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Default Let's hear it for VG

With all the discussions lately about questionable high grade cards in holders, I have had the following thoughts (partly a response to being locked in my house since March - so please humor me).

When I was actively collecting, I was always looking for an upgrade to a less-than-perfect card. But I now appreciate the under-appreciated VG card. No, not the TPG definition of VG, but what most collectors who grew up in the 50's/60's and even earlier accepted as a VG card.

VG was a card that was issued, in the example below, over 80 years ago. It was collected, maybe from its pack, by some young collector who perhaps got the pack as a gift or bought them with their newspaper route money or allowance. The card was enjoyed by this young collector, maybe traded with their friends, used in a flipping game or put in a stack on their desk with a rubber-band keeping them safe.

The card probably moved on thru the years from one young collector to the next and to the next. Each adding their touch to these cards. How many young collectors did touch this card? They obviously took respectable care of it. It didn't end up in the spokes of their bikes or written upon or folded and put in their pocket. They cared about this card. This card has lived a long full life bringing joy to I don't know how many youngsters and maybe young adults along the way.

How it ended up in my possession, I can't really recall. But when I look at this card and think about the many many people that crossed its path, I almost feel a sense of history - not from the card itself - but from the lives that touched it and lives that it touched. It's unlikely many of them are still alive, but would they be astounded that the card that they enjoyed, that had been a part of their lives was still going through history with others taking care of it?

Is it perfect? No. It's been touched by too many hands that simply enjoyed holding it. Its history will never really be known and that is part of what I think makes it perfect. Simply put, it was enjoyed by countless people thru that past 80 years and will probably still be going strong for the next 80.

And for the record, I would call this card VG+.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Now if I could just get up the courage to cut my own hair...............
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:21 PM
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Absolutely the best grade. Any less means creases, marks, and significant damage. Any more and the demand increases exponentially, and you're paying at least double. Still a good presentation. Corner wear doesn't detract too much. Well loved and appreciated by all its owners.

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  #3  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:24 PM
BillyCox3 BillyCox3 is offline
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I have that card. A little worse condition than yours, but it was given to me by Rick Ferrell himself when I visited him at his home many years ago. My only regret was not asking him to sign it.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:29 PM
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I have that card, too. My first prewar HOFer.

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  #5  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnut View Post
Absolutely the best grade. Any less means creases, marks, and significant damage. Any more and the demand increases exponentially, and you're paying at least double. Still a good presentation. Corner wear doesn't detract too much. Well loved and appreciated by all its owners.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
And also far more demand for the lowest grades (because there are more people who just want the card as cheaply as possible than there are people like us).

This year's rise in prices has just exaggerated that effect even more. It's now tougher to afford anything above the lowest grade for great vintage stuff.

All of this is why I've gotten mostly grade 2.5-5 for my '50s and '60s collection. Best combination of value and solid eye appeal
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:28 PM
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"Is it perfect? No. It's been touched by too many hands that simply enjoyed holding it. Its history will never really be known and that is part of what I think makes it perfect. Simply put, it was enjoyed by countless people thru that past 80 years and will probably still be going strong for the next 80."

I recently picked this E98 up for that exact reason. I was fascinated by the 110 year journey this card has taken and the stories it could tell.
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  #7  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:52 PM
jgannon jgannon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocjack View Post
With all the discussions lately about questionable high grade cards in holders, I have had the following thoughts (partly a response to being locked in my house since March - so please humor me).

When I was actively collecting, I was always looking for an upgrade to a less-than-perfect card. But I now appreciate the under-appreciated VG card. No, not the TPG definition of VG, but what most collectors who grew up in the 50's/60's and even earlier accepted as a VG card.

VG was a card that was issued, in the example below, over 80 years ago. It was collected, maybe from its pack, by some young collector who perhaps got the pack as a gift or bought them with their newspaper route money or allowance. The card was enjoyed by this young collector, maybe traded with their friends, used in a flipping game or put in a stack on their desk with a rubber-band keeping them safe.

The card probably moved on thru the years from one young collector to the next and to the next. Each adding their touch to these cards. How many young collectors did touch this card? They obviously took respectable care of it. It didn't end up in the spokes of their bikes or written upon or folded and put in their pocket. They cared about this card. This card has lived a long full life bringing joy to I don't know how many youngsters and maybe young adults along the way.

How it ended up in my possession, I can't really recall. But when I look at this card and think about the many many people that crossed its path, I almost feel a sense of history - not from the card itself - but from the lives that touched it and lives that it touched. It's unlikely many of them are still alive, but would they be astounded that the card that they enjoyed, that had been a part of their lives was still going through history with others taking care of it?

Is it perfect? No. It's been touched by too many hands that simply enjoyed holding it. Its history will never really be known and that is part of what I think makes it perfect. Simply put, it was enjoyed by countless people thru that past 80 years and will probably still be going strong for the next 80.

And for the record, I would call this card VG+.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Now if I could just get up the courage to cut my own hair...............

Well said.

That card you posted is everything I would want in a baseball card...
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  #8  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:37 PM
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Nicely said.
Your example naturally makes me think about these. Although all are now holdered, they were compiled in the spirit of celebrating VGness, and are now displayed above my home office desk.


Last edited by ajquigs; 10-18-2020 at 06:40 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:15 PM
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I love honest wear. I want my old cards to look old.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conor912 View Post
I love honest wear. I want my old cards to look old.
Yeah, those "Black Swamp" cards just seem wrong. Cards from 1910 shouldn't be PSA 9's.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2020, 08:30 PM
One 'ol Cat One 'ol Cat is offline
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Oh brother. Poor? That card is beautiful. Maybe half the back is missing?
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:03 PM
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The grading world says these cards are poor and fair, but they look pretty good to me:

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  #13  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by One 'ol Cat View Post
Oh brother. Poor? That card is beautiful. Maybe half the back is missing?
One tiny stain on the back, other than that its clean.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:08 PM
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Absolutely well said. The history of the card is what draws me to it. I live in the poor to VG world and love it.

Here are two of mine that look absolutely great to me and still tell a story. I always think about the previous owners and how they handled these types of cards but didn't destroy them. They cared for them as I do.

And I love a nice VG ungraded card that I can hold in my hands. I think about what it was like to pull the card from the cigarette pack or candy box and first hold it in my hands. Then tossing it into the box at home with all the others that I had collected.

.
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File Type: jpg e98 Brown.jpg (74.3 KB, 376 views)
File Type: jpg e285 Rittenhouse Williams front.back.jpg (48.3 KB, 378 views)
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:16 PM
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Here's another one where the card is actually in really nice shape, but a kid long ago used the back as an actual checklist and marked off the cards as he got them. I find it awesome that he completed the set and this card forever captures that.

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File Type: jpg e98 McLean PSA 2MK.jpg (81.5 KB, 369 views)
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
Here's another one where the card is actually in really nice shape, but a kid long ago used the back as an actual checklist and marked off the cards as he got them. I find it awesome that he completed the set and this card forever captures that.

.
Nice 98's Andy.
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:38 PM
Tyruscobb Tyruscobb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey2296 View Post
"Is it perfect? No. It's been touched by too many hands that simply enjoyed holding it. Its history will never really be known and that is part of what I think makes it perfect. Simply put, it was enjoyed by countless people thru that past 80 years and will probably still be going strong for the next 80."

I recently picked this E98 up for that exact reason. I was fascinated by the 110 year journey this card has taken and the stories it could tell.
I know this card is over 100 years old. However, I doubt it has many stories to tell. I bet it spent at least 75 years in Lionel Carter’s house.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:47 PM
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I know this card is over 100 years old. However, I doubt it has many stories to tell. I bet it spent at least 75 years in Lionel Carter’s house.
Some of Lionel's cards certainly do have a story to tell...


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File Type: jpg e98 Chase.3.JPG (39.3 KB, 347 views)
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
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I know this card is over 100 years old. However, I doubt it has many stories to tell. I bet it spent at least 75 years in Lionel Carter’s house.
Haha! Good point, maybe Ol' Nappy snuck out on weekends with Lionel's housekeeper...
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2020, 10:32 PM
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Excellent writeup in the original post, ocjack. VG is very good, afterall. Cool thread.



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  #21  
Old 10-18-2020, 10:49 PM
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Nice examples Chuck.

As prices escalated over time, I had to lower my "expectations". I'm glad I did. I found that the VG level has a lot of potential.

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  #22  
Old 10-19-2020, 09:39 AM
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Thanks, Dean! Those are some super prime examples of "very good".
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2020, 10:25 AM
thatkidfromjerrymaguire thatkidfromjerrymaguire is offline
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Count me in the VG club for pre-war. For Post War, I found that EX is the sweet spot for card condition vs price paid.

For pre-war, VG (raw) is great. And to be honest, Poor, Fair, and Good cards are also found in my pre-war collection. There are great looking cards to be found with low technical grades. And since I'm a collector and not an investor, I'm not trying to maximize dollar value. I just want cool looking cards.

I don't have any VG scans handy, but here is a nice half grade...evidently it's not Very Good, but it's better than Good. It's Good PLUS:

billhallmanfront.jpg
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  #24  
Old 10-19-2020, 10:35 AM
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What I think is Vg (similar to original poster's views) is what I aspire to when I am trying to collect a set, raw, in nicer condition...otherwise I like to wallow in the vast pool that is low condition. Here are a few scans of some loveable, mostly Vg-like cards.

Brian
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File Type: jpg 3obaksb190.jpg (77.4 KB, 270 views)
File Type: jpg d310vitt 001 (373x640).jpg (32.1 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg e96gibson.jpg (31.4 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg t205bridwell 001.jpg (40.1 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg t205oleary 001.jpg (52.4 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg t210mulldowney.jpg (20.7 KB, 265 views)
File Type: jpg t207hoff 001.jpg (32.2 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg zeenut14ryanla 001.jpg (54.0 KB, 267 views)
File Type: jpg w503alexander901 (498x640).jpg (40.6 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg DiStarsMellilloversion002.jpg (79.6 KB, 264 views)
File Type: jpg playball41cooney 001.jpg (75.7 KB, 267 views)
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  #25  
Old 10-19-2020, 04:22 PM
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As a long time set collector of both pre- and post-war, G to VG has always been my preferred grade since it allows me to complete sets in a reasonable amount of time and cost. As others have noted, quantity over quality is what I am looking for.
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  #26  
Old 10-19-2020, 04:27 PM
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TBH, there are quite a few "fairs" in my collection.
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  #27  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:03 AM
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Thanks for all the comments. I'm glad I'm not alone in my appreciation for a well-traveled card. I have a few miles on me and would be happy if someone called me VG.
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2020, 10:30 AM
2dueces 2dueces is offline
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Poor is good for me
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  #29  
Old 10-20-2020, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
As a long time set collector of both pre- and post-war, G to VG has always been my preferred grade since it allows me to complete sets in a reasonable amount of time and cost. As others have noted, quantity over quality is what I am looking for.
I can totally relate to this!
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  #30  
Old 10-20-2020, 03:34 PM
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Sometimes a Vg card can be attractively embellished by its former owner. I showed the Diamond Stars Mellillo cards in my previous post, but thought it was worth spotlighting here, because it is just so cool.

Regular VG card on left, VG enhanced on right

Brian
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  #31  
Old 10-20-2020, 06:00 PM
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Here is mine a Joe Jackson in my collection that I could afford
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2020, 10:06 AM
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I guess I collect in the VG area more than most others. That said, for me, it is always about how the card looks irrespective of the opinion on it.

From our BST a few years ago...

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  #33  
Old 10-21-2020, 12:57 PM
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Those are all good looking cards being posted and even proof that sometimes "poor" is excellent. I only posted one vg card, so I thought I'd add two more of my well-traveled cards. Soft corners, darkening around the picture, but still present well for their age, imho.
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2020, 08:10 PM
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One of my favorite VGs
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