Fro Joy cards - grading

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Posted By: Glen V

Normally I'm not a fan of grading, but recently picked up some Fro Joy cards and thought too many potential buyers would question the authenticy if I tried to sell them ungraded. However, after calls to SGC, PSA, & GAI, it turns out no company grades them anymore. Is this really an issue that a professional grader can't determine if its ligit? What good is a grading company if they can't authenticate an issue that most people have trouble with? Aren't there plenty of fake Goudey's out there that can pass for being real? They haven't stopped grading them. Sorry for the post, just had to vent.

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Posted By: Scott

If that's true, that is a really sad statement about the expertise of grading companies. I owned a Fro Joy and was absolutely certain it was real - if you have held enough cards that were printed using similar techniques, it's easy enough to tell the real deal. I would expect the grading companies to have even a higher level of expertise.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Anyone who has owned legit fro joys can tell if they are real or not. Maybe the grading companies should hire someone with pre-war expertise. I think I have heard that somewhere before. Dan.

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Posted By: Scott

but since we know many if not most board members have more expertise in this area than the grading companies, yet many board members continue to ask us to turn a blind eye to questionably-graded cards (we are paranoid, you know), what is the incentive for them to hire such people?

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Posted By: leon

I would be very surprised if I called Scott, Bob, or Dave at SGC and they said they wouldn't grade them ( I could be wrong). I agree with Dan that anyone that has handled enough '20's cards would be able to tell new from old cardboard. It's all in the gloss my friends.....warm regards

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Posted By: Scott

If I had an oddball card or uncatalogued card, I would also certainly ask you to send it to them for me so that I could get it slabbed. I

should have done that with the LaMallorquina I had - instead, they refused to grade it and I took a 50% hit on it when I sold it.

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Posted By: Glen V

Leon, the next time you talk to SGC, could you ask about the Fro Joys for me? They said no when I called.

I know the cards are real, but don't know how many people would believe me if I put them on Ebay. Like Scott, I might lose 50% for not having them graded (or being able to find a company to grade them). Anyone have some type stuff they want to trade for some Fro Joys?

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Posted By: Scott

Unless you find a non-ebay buyer you will get hosed. I had a real beauty that I sold recently, un-graded, but only because the buyer knew me.

Also, the only Fro-joy Ruth that does well, even graded, seems to be the classic Conlon portrait ("chewing gum on cap" pose).

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Posted By: leon

And spoke to Scott Hileman. He said because of the issues with counterfeits and the "premium" cardboard Fro-Joys that their policy as of right now is not to grade them. Scott's very experienced and I discussed with him the possibility of grading the ones in the "middle" and obviously not the ones on the left (fakes) or the right (the premium cardboard ones). He said they would talk about it and he feels like they might be able to bend at some time in the future. He needs to run it by the new management team. I told him I thought it would be a good service to grade the "for sure" real ones but maybe not the right or left (which little is known about). We'll see....regards all

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Posted By: Scott

a bit disheartening with all it implies, but...

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Posted By: hankron

Even if a collector or dealer or grading company hasn't handled one before, the original Fro Joys cards and premiums are straightforeward to identify due to the type of printing used to make the cards. The Fro Joys used the same old fashion printing (photoengraving/relief) as used to make the Sporting News, Sporting Lifes and early Exhibit cards. This type of printing is quickly identified with a inexpensive handheld microscope (many $15 and under). The collector does not have to be a scientist or printing expert to identify, he or she just has to know what to look for.

As a closely related issue was brought up recently that asked similar identification questions, I will do my best to address the practical identication issue at my 'Q & A' link (top link) at cycleback.com. I will include illustrations and I hope, after that, everyone who's interested in Fro Joys (including grading companies) can identify them on their own, and weed out the fakes and reprints. I will post the 'Fro Joy' addition by Tuesday night, perhaps sooner.

I know Joe hates it when I post '30 second ads' for my website. But, considering I don't sell anything there or even link to my eBay auctions, I don't think it's so bad.

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Posted By: Gary B.

It seems pretty ridiculous that the major card companies won't grade it - certainly it would be very difficult to sell otherwise as there are SO many fakes, and if you got it graded by a lesser company, pepole wouldn't trust it.

Why don't you have a Mastronet or one of the other major auction houses sell it for you? Even if it can't be graded, their statement as to its authenticity is bound to get you a fair price...

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Posted By: hankron

Gary, my point is that there's no good reason Fro Joys can't be and won't be in the future graded by SGC and PSA. Authenticating Fro Joys is not as murky a world as the graders may make it sound. Beleive me, it's not that hard. I guess that PSA and/or SGC will be back to grading the cards in the future and this is a momentary break. Graders are allowed the occasional time out to regroup, just like everyone else.

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Posted By: Paul

Thanks.

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Posted By: Paul

read your post again. Geez, I've been up all night. Just got done working a 13 hour shift. I love the Fro Joy's. I too wish one of the "big three" would grade them.

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Posted By: Tim Mayer

I have a couple that are psa graded,,,so they used to grade them and stopped? Could they be bad cards in psa holders?

Hum...

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Actually, I've decided to pass on writing the article, as I saw that there was old but relevant material on the site anyway, and I'm not sure if there is much interest in such an article (Rule of thumb: there has to be at least two potential readers before writing an article. And by readers I mean people who will finish the article). I have on occasion checked out items for board members through the mail, and if there is a pressing need I may be able to do that with a Fro Joy. Beleive it or not, one can sometimes identify a card even if it's in a PSA holder. I always use my trusty microscope, and I have been able to focus the microscope past the holder to the card.