Does The National Still Happen This Year?

[buymycards]

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

[Snapolit1]

Why not an East Coast / Midwest National every spring and a West Coast National every Fall? Hobby has never been more popular. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Originally Posted by buymycards

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

[rats60]

There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by rats60

There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

The East Coast National is really just the name the promoter uses for the White Plains show immediately after the national. It is no where near the size or scope of the national. It just has an extra day or two added and maybe 5-10 more dealers squeezed along the walls.

[Exhibitman]

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

T

Could be way worse though:

I'm pretty sure we could buy that "venue" in Detroit for roughly 2 Poorly Graded 33 Ruth's

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

Detroit jokes! Always fresh, funny, and original.

[Michael B]

All of the handwringing about The National going the west coast does not accomplish much unless there is a bloc of western dealers who can get together and come up with a plan. If a group of heavy hitters got together and ambushed The National you may get a reaction. You have a large card convention 3 weeks to a month prior to the National or a week or two later. Too early and you are tap dancing around the Fourth of July holiday and virtual (for now) school ending. If you have it shortly thereafter you may be able to tempt the west coast collectors who bite the bullet and begrudingly travel to Chicago or Cleveland. The appeal of a show that they can drive to within a few hours with more money in their pocket may sway quite a few. Southern California may be good. I am not too familiar with the convention centers down there other than Long Beach which is relatively small, but cheap close parking. People keep mentioning Las Vegas. Yes, they have a few convention spaces. I recall going to the one in the Venetian, I believe, for the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Show and it was a good size. There are always lots of hotel rooms except possibly during the CES (Consumer Electronics Show). The big issue, big as an elephant's butt, is the heat during the summer. Certainly you can move easily between some of the casinos with the monorail. However if you want to step outside and are not used to the heat it will be tough to take. Other cities may work like Phoenix or Denver. San Franciso too expensive overall. I view Dallas as no better than Chicago. It is really not west. It is more south central. If a dealer would not travel to Chicago why would he want to drive the 10 across AZ and NM and the 20 through most of Texas in constant 90º+ weather? Just some thoughts to ponder.

[SAllen2556]

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Cobo.waterfront-1bsml-d9b6c93e22-70041e012a.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

Surely we will get a harsh rejoinder from all the upstanding 1960 used car salespersons who collect sportscards

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yes, Detroit is not worthy of hosting a bunch of fat white guys with the collective morals of a 1960's used car salesman. If you zoom in you'll see a dead body floating in the river.

There aren't enough dealers out west to have a show there. All the fat white guys live in the East. People in California play outside.

Attachment 412700

I can appreciate bristling at the tired comments about Detroit. Just as stale as 'Mistake by the Lake' Cleveland. Since Detroit is 300 miles East of Chicago and 160 miles Northwest of Cleveland it is a moot point. It is still 'in the east'.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This size of the floor stuff is such BS. Look at the actual show itself--it has gotten smaller every year. There are large swaths of the floor in Chicago and Cleveland that are curtained off and not used. In Chicago you could play a football game in the space between the booths and the autograph area.

The reality is as it always has been: the owners of the show want a space that costs nothing or next to it, has minimal hotel guarantees, and is willing to book years in advance. No first-rate convention center will do this, so we end up in a former tank factory (Cleveland), a difficult to access run-down beach flop (Atlantic City), and a suburban facility next to an airport (Rosemont). And don't misunderstand me, if they decreed tomorrow that we go to Rosemont every year I would be great with that. At least it is an easy flight for me. But to call it a "National" while having it in only a handful of areas that are all in the northeast quadrant of the lower 48 is just silly.

Could be way worse though:

This is hilarious!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

This is hilarious!

Should show 1989 donruss/ Topps littered and in junk piles around the buliding

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by rats60

There is an Easy Coast National in New York every year. Why doesn't someone promote a West Coast National in California or Las Vegas? If it goes well then maybe dealers will ask for the National to be out west every few years.

There will not be an East Coast National This Year:

As copied from their web site:

We have been informed by the Westchester County that all events that were scheduled to occur in the Westchester County Center for 2020 have been cancelled. This includes us and all other shows. The County Center is now a full Covid backup hospital with beds and medical needs and is prepared to be used at any time if needed during these terrible times. We have been told that this plan is going to continue until the end of 2020. We look forward to a full return in 2021 at the Westchester County Center.

The Local Long Island Shows are being cancelled one at a time because we are holding out hope for an allowed increase of people for gatherings. The current situation for New York is a 50 person maximum per gathering. Please keep checking back for further updates

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

There will not be an East Coast National This Year:

As copied from their web site:

We have been informed by the Westchester County that all events that were scheduled to occur in the Westchester County Center for 2020 have been cancelled. This includes us and all other shows. The County Center is now a full Covid backup hospital with beds and medical needs and is prepared to be used at any time if needed during these terrible times. We have been told that this plan is going to continue until the end of 2020. We look forward to a full return in 2021 at the Westchester County Center.

The Local Long Island Shows are being cancelled one at a time because we are holding out hope for an allowed increase of people for gatherings. The current situation for New York is a 50 person maximum per gathering. Please keep checking back for further updates

I would love if the "big" Hofstra show on Long Island in October can be held but it's looking increasingly doubtful. My professional association has already cancelled our annual October events in NYC and there are no plans for anyone to go back to Manhattan office buildings unless they want to at both my job and my wife's. My building in midtown, which has about 60% of 44 floors occupied by my firm opened to 10% max capacity about a month ago and five people total showed up the first week. It has not gone up substantially since.

[judsonhamlin]

Hey Detroit! Just remember you're not Windsor! Be positive.

[ALR-bishop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G4bxA2Gfnc

[Sportsnutcards]

Originally Posted by buymycards

I have been hearing about a West Coast National for many years, and I always thought that it was a great idea. I continually hear about the east coast dealers not wanting to go west, but that may be OK. It would be nice to see some fresh faces at the tables from west coast dealers who don't travel to the Midwest or East Coast shows.

This year, the National had 288 dealers signed up. 39 of these dealers were from what could be considered west coast states, and I am including the 11 dealers from Texas in that total. If the National would be held out west, I'm guessing that these numbers would triple.

48 dealers from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Perhaps many of these dealers would travel west.

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

I am betting that if a large enough venue could be obtained, the number of dealers could swell from the current 288 to 350, or 400, or more. Actually, the current location in Chicago could handle 400 dealers, and I'll be every spot would be sold out.

There actually is way more than 288 dealers who do the national. Many dealers share booths with others and just one name is on the booth itself for registration and priority purposes. I think last year in Chicago and this current year, there are 600 total booths sold and probably 400-450 different dealers. This seems like the average number since maybe the 2008 National, which was the last time they used the side room for regular dealers. I don’t think the show moves back west until there are other major successful shows to prove that it would be worthwhile.
-Ted

[notfast]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The biggest group of dealers is from the east coast:

New York 32, New Jersey 24, Penn 24, Florida 23, and North Carolina 21, for a total of 124. I wonder how many of these dealers would travel to Las Vegas, or LA, or San Fran? I would guess that most of them would make the trip.

The issue is that the National requires you to set up each year or lose your “tenure.” Not sure if they allow for a year of opting out but if they did not, you’d have 124 upset East Coast dealers if there was a West Coast show.

I’d be willing to bet 90% of those 124 wouldn’t even consider the West Coast...Mainly because a large portion of them have “larger” set ups they’ve been operating with for 20+ years. The logistics of traveling 3000 miles isn’t even reasonable.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by notfast

The issue is that the National requires you to set up each year or lose your “tenure.” Not sure if they allow for a year of opting out but if they did not, you’d have 124 upset East Coast dealers if there was a West Coast show.

I’d be willing to bet 90% of those 124 wouldn’t even consider the West Coast...Mainly because a large portion of them have “larger” set ups they’ve been operating with for 20+ years. The logistics of traveling 3000 miles isn’t even reasonable.

The tenure is part of the problem. When you walk into the National, the first thing you see is a bunch of dealers with 1980's products at 1980's prices. The tenure is what keeps new dealers from being able to set up.

I want to be clear. I love the National, but it could be so much better.

[Duluth Eskimo]

The intent of it moving around used to be to keep it fresh and not the same people with the same stuff over and over again. The peak of the hobby was when the show was still touring the west coast. I live in MN, but if I lived on the west coast I’d be pissed at this east of the Mississippi rotation. The mgmt could care less about dealers and are mostly concerned with driving around on their golf carts acting like big shots. The biggest shows they had were west coast and (although I don’t like them) PSA is in southern Cal. I flew to those nationals back in the day and I would again. I’d much rather take a vacation to southern Cal than Detroit, Cleveland, AC or some other place where the committee and can rent for basically free or close to it. To not have it rotate through California or Las Vegas is absolutely ridiculous. Ok, back to talking about how great Baltimore, Cleveland, and AC are along with how great he committee is for dealers.