Cooperstown report and BB card acquisitions

[tedzan]

Not a big crowd this year in Cooperstown for HOF weekend. The local newspaper estimated only 10,000 were at the HOF ceremonies.
The year Ashburn and Schmidt were inducted, the crowd was 40,000. Recently when Ripken was inducted, the crowd was 75,000.

One of the great aspects of this show are the BB conversations we have with the people that attend. Here is a bit of TRIVIA from a
Midwesterner......

A Centerfielder once caught a flyball in FOUL territory....apparently, this feat has only occurred once in a regular season Major League
game....who is this Centerfielder ?


The BB card Show at the VFW building in town was well attended. I had a very good show buying and selling. I acquired 12 - T206's
with American Beauty 350 and 460 backs.....and, this T201 Cobb/Crawford. This card appears to be a color error, since the blue sky
is virtually missing on the Cobb portion of this card (consequently, the grass and tree are not as green).








TED Z

[bbcard1]

neat T201...I think slabbing really ruins those cards because you can no longer do with them that which they were intended to do....

[Rich Klein]

THE centerfielder is Johnny Mostil c 1927 and I did NOT google that

Rich

[barrysloate]

I don't think that's the answer Rich.

[tedzan]

DITTO....to what Barry said.

Anyhow, it's not the answer I'm expecting. Perhaps, it did occur twice.

Regards, and hope to see you in Baltimore.


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

During a Spring Training game in 1925, Johnny Mostil became the only center fielder in baseball history to catch a foul ball.

http://www.whiting.lib.in.us/Johnny%20Mostil.htm

[tedzan]

The Centerfielder I'm looking accomplished this feat in a regular season game.

He played after 1925, and was one of the fastest CFer's to ever play that position.

Hint....he stole what would have been an inside-the-park HR that Joe DiMaggio hit into "death valley" at Yankee Stadium.


TED Z

[White Borders]

Hey Ted,

Great trivia question. When I think of fastest center fielders, Cool Papa Bell and Mickey Rivers come to mind, but neither would've played against Joe D. The best guess I can come up with is Ben Chapman, who I believe led the league in stolen bases a few times in the 30's and actually played CF for the Yankees but was traded when DiMaggio came along.

Looking forward to the answer to this one,
Craig

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pete Reiser? He would have played against Joe D. in a World Series.

[tedzan]

Your getting warm, that event (stealing Joe D's HR) occured in World Series play.

But, it's not Pete Reiser.


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Enos Slaughter?

[Hankphenom]

On the Glory of Their Times audio, Jimmy Austin tells of the time he was playing third base and made a putout at first. "I'll bet that's the only time THAT ever happened!," he exclaims in his Welsh brogue, and he just might be right about that.

[White Borders]

If it was in a World Series, I'd have to say the Phillies Richie Ashburn in 1950. Other teams the Yanks played during DiMaggio's days were St Louis with Harry Walker and Brooklyn with Duke Snider, but neither were speedy.

[FrankWakefield]

Well I'm sitting here in the heat and humidity of Kentucky, just busting to post the center fielder's name... but I won't. Because Ted's the one who told me in the first place. My Dad saw this fellow play, and thought him good enough to be worthy of Hall of Fame consideration. I'm ok with him not being in, but he was as good 'a ballplayer as some who are in. Great question for the board, Ted!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wally Berger?

[scooter729]

Dom DiMaggio? Seems to fit the description and hints given so far...

[albrshbr]

I went to Cooperstown too last weekend. I've been meaning to post something, but I keep running out of time. Just got back from Cleveland, I was hoping to be in the stands when A-Rod got 600, but it didn't happen. Still, it's always great to be in the stands for any game.

I stopped by the card show and picked up a few T205s for the set I'm working on. Of course, I had to stop and introduce myself to Ted Z.

It's been quite a few years since I've toured the HOF, and it was great, wish I had more time. I never realized MLB experimented with satin jerseys when they first tried night games. I looked at the T206 Wagner, and although all the borders seemed full, the top border had a bit of a diagnol cut to it. It was still really nice though.

One thing I really noticed at both Cooperstown and at the Indians game was the large numbers of kids and 20-somethings. It was nice to see.

I've got quite a bit more to say, but maybe later. As it is, me and my son are planning another trip to Cooperstown in the fall.

Bruce

[brickyardkennedy]

NM

[William Todd]

Ist it Al Gionfriddo, Dodgers?

[brickyardkennedy]

Gionfriddo was my first thought, but Frank, who was told the player's name by Ted, says his dad believed the player "good enough to be worthy of Hall of Fame consideration." Even Gionfriddo's staunchest fans wouldn't go that far.

[tedzan]

I just got in and read your guesses here. Some great names, but so far, none are the correct answer.

Frank Wakefield's post is interesting, in that I agree with his Dad, that this ballplayer deserves to be in the HOF.


TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

Bob is right... this guy isn't The Guy...


That catch was in the bottom of the 6th inning of game 6 of the 1947 World Series. He'd just come into the game. He caught that ball DiMaggio hit in the bottom of the 6th, he grounded out to lead off in the top of the 7th, he fielded a Yankee single to left in the bottom of the 9th, he watched game 7 from the bench, and he was finished with the major leagues. This catch was the last thing of significance he did while in the majors. Not many options out there if you're wanting a Gionfriddo card.

But Al G isn't the guy... and he was in left field.

[tedzan]

Gionfriddo's catch in the 1947 World Series was in Left-Centerfield of Yankee Stadium in front of the visiting team's bullpen.

The player I'm looking for caught DiMaggio's long drive in "death valley", beyond the monuments in Centerfield.

Here's a hint......it was in an W.S. that pre-dates Gionfriddo's catch.


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Terry Moore was a fast centerfielder for St. Louis who must have still been playing when they met in the WS, but he can't possibly be a HOF contender? But I am thinking since Frank is from that part of the country maybe that is the answer?

[Peter_Spaeth]

For what it's worth, from Baseball Reference. I just can't see a plausible case for the HOF even if statistics don't tell the full story. And I know, he missed three years for the war.


Gray Ink Batting - 39 (627), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 18 (837), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 12 (1364), Average HOFer ≈ 50



Similar Batters

Mike Kreevich (944)
Mule Haas (937)
Juan Beniquez (933)
Darryl Hamilton (931)
Cleon Jones (930)
Terry Puhl (930)
Alex Johnson (929)
Ethan Allen (929)
Brian McRae (929)
Lenny Dykstra (928)

.

[White Borders]

Another Guess - Carl Furillo? Not sure when he started playing or if he was fast, or even if he was in center field.

[ElCabron]

Wally Berger would have been my guess, too. I'm very skeptical that such a feat ever happened, however.

-Ryan

[tedzan]

TERRY MOORE was a speedy centerfielder for St. Louis Cardinals (1935-48). A tremendous defensive player at his position,
he was a key player during the years of the "Gasehouse Gang's" success.

Three years of his career were interrupted by his service in WWII (1943-45).

Should he be in the HOF....you tell me ?

Terry Moore......BA = .280 ....... Fldg % = .985

Bill Mazeroski.....BA = .260 ....... Fldg % = .983

As a kid, I saw Terry play (1947-48). It was the end of his career; and he was still making some tremendous catches.


Thanks everyone,

TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

Great trivia, Ted. Thanks.

I didn't say Moore should be in the Hall; I said my Dad saw him play and thought him worthy of consideration. The guy could cover some ground out there, only 19 outfielders rank above him all time in range factor... considering that a team has 3 outfielders out there but only 1 at the other positions, that puts him at the apex of outfielders. He's an All Star for 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, and then he's serving in the military for 3 years; and he's getting MVP votes those four all star years when there's some serious ballplayers for which to vote. Stan Musial's on a team where Moore's the captain, a team that dominated baseball while Moore was in his prime. I didn't see him play, most of us didn't. Those that did that I've talked to thought pretty highly of him, fans and players. And I think he was a better ballplayer than a few of those in the Hall. I'm not advocating his induction, but anyone who thinks Moore to have been an average ballplayer is underestimating him, I think.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

TERRY MOORE was a speedy centerfielder for St. Louis Cardinals (1935-48). A tremendous defensive player at his position,
he was a key player during the years of the "Gasehouse Gang's" success.

Three years of his career were interrupted by his service in WWII (1943-45).

Should he be in the HOF....you tell me ?

Terry Moore......BA = .280 ....... Fldg % = .985

Bill Mazeroski.....BA = .260 ....... Fldg % = .983

As a kid, I saw Terry play (1947-48). It was the end of his career; and he was still making some tremendous catches.


Thanks everyone,

TED Z

Ted I think this just proves Mazeroski should not be. Although at least he had some good longevity stats etc. And I just don't see how you credit guys for years they did not play, unfortunate though the interruption for the service might be in terms of their careers. Also not sure you can just compare fielding percentages for different positions.

[FrankWakefield]

PS, I agree about a simplistic comparison of fielding percentage looking at different positions. That compares what a player does with the balls on which he makes a play.

Moore is getting to more balls out there than everyone else who played, less 19 men. And then, once he gets to those balls, he's doing something with them. And gunning down a few runners on the side. He was a very good ballplayer. You can continue to perceive him as average. I'm ok with the idea that he's short of making the Hall; but he was an above average player.

As for not counting military service, that's fine if you relinquish longevity; as soon as someone tries to credit longevity, then it's only fair to consider what would have been accomplished if the player had been an the ball field instead of the battlefield. Cecil Travis, Dom DiMaggio, Dick Wakefield and Tommy Henrich are among the players who to me seem to have had their careers, and their career statistics most affected by military service. And that should be considered whenever longevity is considered for other players. It's not like these guys were on a salary hold out. Mr. James' Historical Baseball Abstract ranks Moore 60th among center fielders; not high enough to be among the HOFers, but way above the average player.

[tedzan]

Frank

I saw Terry play at Ebbets Field and the Polo Grounds in 1948 when the Cardinals were in town. Terry fielded 134 hits
to him, and only commited ONE error. It was his last season and I have always thought that if he had played in 1949,
your Cardinals would have won the NL flag (the Dodgers won it by only 1 game).
Furthermore, Terry was a tremendous influence on Stan Musial, when Stan came up in 1941.


Peter

I completely agree with you that Mazeroski should not be in the HOF. And, I'm not "crediting" guys for their years in the
service of our country. But, I'm one of the few here who saw Terry play....and, I'm telling you that he was impressive as
a Centerfielder.

As for who is in the HOF, and who isn't in the HOF....there are at least 3 guys (in my opinion) that have been overlooked
(Bill Dahlen, Gil Hodges and Buck O'Neill).

I don't understand why....do you ?


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

As I have said before, I would clean house and have a much smaller HOF, but based on current membership I would think Hodges certainly rates. Similar to Jim Rice in many ways statistically, and a great power hitter for a decade. O'Neill I would think yes just based on who he was although perhaps in some special category not as a player. Dahlen's stats are not that impressive, although certainly head and shoulders above Tinker and Evers, among others.

[FrankWakefield]

We three are pretty much on the same page, I now think...

Maybe the thing to do is form the American Baseball Museum, create an alternative to Cooperstown (though it would be a shame to lose that tradition), and then really tighten up on who is honored. Whittle it down to 60 to 80, or so.

When Mr. Moore was playing, when Dad was thinking him a very good ballplayer, that was before Mantle, Mays, and Snider. It was before Hodges and Rice. Today, with Mr. James would having Moore ranked 60th, and looking through the list and subtracting out players who played later, then Moore would have ranked 30th among center fielders back when Dad was contemplating our National Pastime. I recall reading once that Moore felt he'd finally learned how to hit in 1942... and then he's whisked away.

Ted, I envy your memories of the Polo Grounds, and of Ebbets Field.

[tedzan]

You will be pleased to know that I kept close tabs on your St Louis Cardinals as a kid in the late 1940's and early 1950's.
One of my best friends, Gary Morit, was an avid Cardinals fan. We would buy The Sporting News everyday and read up
on our favorite BB players and all the teams. Growing up in Hillside, NJ, we had quite an eclectic group of fans....my next
door neighbor John Sharkey (Phillies fan), Kurt Laughinghouse (Indians fan), Ron Jacobson (Giants fan). The Dodger fans
were Joe Kelleher, Charlie Cohen, Larry Shenven and Billy Brokaw.

And, I was the lone Yankees fan......and mind you, Phil Rizzuto lived just 2 blocks away from us. As early as age 10, we
knew all the stats and history of our respective teams. It was great, because we would engage in (sometimes heated)
discussions comparing our favorite team and ballplayers.

When we were not "Talkin BaseBall" we were playing it from morning till dark. Sometimes Stick Ball, sometimes Hardball.
Other times we would ride our bikes to the Newark Bears Stadium....and once, we even decided to peddle our bikes to
Ebbets Field (20 miles to the Hudson River and then a ferry boat ride to Brooklyn). But, that's a long story that I'll leave
for another time.

Best regards ole buddy,

TED Z

[FUBAR]

Ted

Sounds like your childhood was a mix of "The Sandlot" and "Stand By Me"

maybe you're Will Wheaton in disguise!

[Northviewcats]

This thread reminds me of Cooperstown. Old-timers getting together to fondly talk about baseball. I always enjoy listening to Ted, Peter and Frank's reminisce.

My wife and I were in Cooperstown induction weekend, also. The crowds were unusually small and the weather didn't cooperate (rained like hell on Friday, hot like hell on Saturday, and more devilish showers on Sunday), but the hall-of-fame weekend was still a piece of heaven. Dawson's induction speech was inspiring. The hamburgs and hot dogs sold on the street were great. I got my picture taken with Ricky Henderson (made him laugh by saying "I can't believe I'm standing next to the fastest man alive). I bought a few Ts from Ted and Don and enjoyed our conversations. To top it off I met Brian from SGC. He was very helpful in accepting my first submission to SGC.

I also, like Bruce, ended up in Cleveland hoping to see A-Rod hit 600.

Lots of fun.

Best wishes,

Joe

[packs]

Which World Series game did Moore catch the foul ball?

[tedzan]

Terry Moore's catch in Foul territory was not in World Series play.

It was in regular season play. I'm researching when this occurred.



TED Z

[ethicsprof]

yes, indeed, 'hearing' these debates and stories told by Ted, Frank, and Peter are the best of baseball, what baseball is really all about in its essence.
Herein lies the reason we love those pieces of cardboard for a lifetime.

great work, gentlemen

best,
barry

[rc4157]

Ditto to what Barry just said, Thanks guys - RC