Is it still possible to build a pre-war collection while avoiding TPGs altogether?

[the 'stache]

About a week ago, I stumbled across a discussion on Net 54 about The Vintage & Classic Baseball Collector magazine. It immediately piqued my interest, as I am always on the lookout for educational material about our hobby. Within the discussion, it was mentioned that issue #7 was substantially more difficult to acquire because it contained an article called "PSA & ASA Card Grading Services: Smoke Detectors Without Batteries". I happened to locate a copy for sale on Ebay, and purchased it. It arrived today. Written by editor & publisher Dennis C. Purdy, Sr., the article was quite critical of the third party graders, and what he saw as a conflict of interest.

Not everyone in the country respects or trusts what [PSA & ASA] do. And some of that mistrust has to do with this: We see a service operated by a very few people that grades cards, publishes price guides based on the grades awarded, and whose owner(s) also buy and sell these same cards. Now if that's not a conflict of interest with the potential to lend itself to fraud and abuse, I've never seen one.

This editorial by Purdy appeared in July of 1996. It was certainly prophetic, as we still vigorously debate the necessity (among other things) of third party graders today.

While reading this article, a question popped into my head: if you want to build a quality pre-war or vintage collection, is it still possible to acquire the cards you want while avoiding these third party graders altogether? In other words, can you still build the collection you want, getting the cards you want in the condition you are completely happy with, while avoiding PSA, SGC, Beckett completely?

There are certainly collectors here who are well established & respected within the pre-war and vintage communities, and those collectors will have in place a network of friends and dealers who can get them what they are looking for. But for people who are comparatively new to the hobby, is it possible put together the collection you want without involving these companies? Or, would this pursuit be folly?

I'm still developing my "eye" when it comes to critically assessing the condition of a baseball card. And so, yes, if I were to buy an ungraded card, I might overpay for it because I have overestimated the card's condition. I have no problem with that. But when I see advertisements like the one below, I get really angry.

This ultimately amounts to price manipulation, in my opinion. Yes, the majority of T206 and Goudey cards I've bought thus far have been graded. But what if I don't want buy graded cards?

[Sean1125]

Yes, but I believe many cards would need to be purchased slabbed since you simply couldn't find them outside of it. Many of the "big" cards.

[Rich Klein]

Of course you can create a pre-war collectyion without TPG, but as Sean says, some cards you would feel much better off when slabbed. I pikced up a few f-g T206's in trade this week, they don't need slabbing but if they were better, I might have thought about that way.

[steve_a]

I think the likelihood of acquiring any significant card, let alone set, without cracking out TPG slabs is small to none. Every buyer needs a willing seller and sellers maximize value by slabbing their cards. The AH slab consignments and purchased collections. The economics will continue to dry up the raw inventory.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

Yes and this is why this issue is so coveted!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

Yup, good memory, Peter. It's the article directly following the one about the TPGs. The article name is "True and Open Card Restoration: An Idea Whose Time Has Come?" I haven't started it yet, but looking at the examples of cards restored by this person, I think "frightening" is an apropos description.

This magazine is proving to be well worth the $17.98. Between V&CBC and Old Cardboard's back issues, I have a lot of great reading to look forward to.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by steve_a

I think the likelihood of acquiring any significant card, let alone set, without cracking out TPG slabs is small to none. Every buyer needs a willing seller and sellers maximize value by slabbing their cards. The AH slab consignments and purchased collections. The economics will continue to dry up the raw inventory.

Absolutely! The TPG lends at least some protection to an on-line transaction, where you can't examine the dot pattern or edges, or blue-light the card. If I'm spending at least into the hundreds, it's going to be a graded example,although eye appeal comes before technical grade for me. If you are attracted to it when you buy it, chances are a prospective buyer will be also in the event you sell, and the converse is just as true.

Interesting post. Best to all,

Larry

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Japhi - You make a great point. A low technical grade will command a lower price than the card may have received if it were raw. I have gotten several deals this way. As always buy the card, not the case.

[japhi]

Ya, there are guys selling on ebay making good money cracking mid grade PSA slabs and selling the cards raw for 50% more than they paid for the slabbed card.Tons of value for low/mid grade guys who like cards that are not in plastic.

Not prewar, and not baseball, but I missed on a card last year that was in a 5 slab that looked like an 8 all day. I contacted the seller to see what the flaw was - he was expecting a way better grade but under the proper light there was a minor issue with the surface that PSA found.

Looked like an $400 dollar card and sold for $60, was on vacation or would have pulled the trigger myself. That card looks deadly in some guys binder and when he goes to sell he will find someone to pay 200 bucks for it easy.

I just don't get the hate for TPG's, IMO it's a win for everyone.

[the 'stache]

Hmm, I've never thought about that. Cards that appear better than the technical grade they get because some minor flaw that most people wouldn't see brought it down.

That might be helpful to remember down the road, as for me, a card's eye appeal means more to me than the grade, so long as there are no major issues, like paper loss. I can handle some very slight creases that are difficult to see. I like centered cards, but they don't have to be perfectly centered, just close. The T206 cards in the PSA 4 to 5 range are perfect for me.