Best baseball team ever

[CrazyDiamond]

Friends and I were doing this at work

PuT together your best starting nine baseball team. It's very tough but fun. Only one at each position. It can be any player from any team. Current, retired or deceased

Very tough when you get to outfield and starting pitcher

[CrazyDiamond]

The fun part is realizing the amazing players you leave out

[EvilKing00]

1- cobb cf
2 - wagner ss
3 - ruth rf
4 - williams lf
5 - Gehrig1b
6- bench c
7 - mike schmidt 3b
8 - hornsby 2b

Bench
C- piazza
Mid infield- collins
Of - bonds & rickey henderson

Staff

1 - sandy Koufax
2 - Pedro Martinez
3 - Walter Johnson
4 - Mathewson
5 -Greg Maddux

[CrazyDiamond]

Good list! This started so many debates at work.


I agree with most but I had Gehrig at first. Thought about having babe start at pitcher to get hank Aaron in right field

[RTK]

Outfield of Aaron, Mays, Ruth
Williams would be DH if there was one
Josh Gibson as catcher
3rd - Mike Schmidt
1st - Gehrig
SS - Ripken (?)
Pitchers - Young, Paige, Mathewson


...have to think about the rest

Hornsby would fit at 2nd
Jackie Robinson would make a good utility guy off the bench
and I'd add Maddux to the pitching staff


...damn...what about Mantle?

[npa589]

I love these types of discussions:

1. Ty Cobb CF
2. Jackie Robinson 2B
3. Ted Williams LF
4. Lou Gehrig 1B
5. Roberto Clemente RF
6. Honus Wagner SS
7. Johnny Bench C
8. Brooks Robinson 3B
9. Walter Johnson P, Cy Young P, Greg Maddux P, Randy Johnson P, Christy Mathewson

Oh, and I know who I left out...but, with this type of lineup, I really think defense would be rather crucial to make it as great a team as it could be. It was hard for me to leave DiMaggio off the list as well.

[ooo-ribay]

OF is Bonds, Mays and Clemente

Signed:
Giants Fan

but really, it's gotta be Mays over Cobb. and it's gotta be Bonds, too.

[bn2cardz]

Pitcher - Walter Johnson
Catcher - Josh Gibson
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Honus Wagner
3B - Nap Lajoie
L.F.- Babe Ruth
C.F. - Tris Speaker
R.F. - Ty Cobb

[ooo-ribay]

Some of you pre-war card guys are letting your collecting passion cloud your decisions

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Some of you pre-war card guys are letting your collecting passion cloud your decisions

After looking at my picks I noticed that as well. I guess it is better to limit my search to a few decades instead of one team

EDIT TO ADD: I wouldn't have a strong argument against putting Mays and/or Bonds on a list, but I wouldn't change my list to put them on it.

[esiason14]

C....Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench
1B...Lou Gehrig
2B...Rogers Hornsby, Eddie Collins
3B...Mike Schmidt, Ed Mathews
SS...Honus Wagner, Jeter
LF...Ted Williams, Stan The Man
CF...Willie Mays, Ty Cobb
RF...Babe Ruth, Frank Robinson
DH...Big Hurt, Molitor

SP...Walter Johnson
SP...Christy Mathewson
SP...Sandy Koufax
SP...Lefty Grove
SP...Warren Spahn

RP: Mariano Rivera
RP: Eck

[ktimm]

Kyle, I agree with most of your list, DH's gotta go though. You also have good alternates. I'm seconding your list.

[CrazyDiamond]

Just an observation

Mantle
DiMaggio
Nolan ryan

Didn't make anyone's list

[AMBST95]

CF: Mays
RF: Ruth
LF: Bonds
1B: Gehrig
2B: Hornsby
3B: Schmidt
SS: Ripken
C: Bench
SP: Koufax

[7nohitter]

CF: Ellis Burks
2B: Marty Barrett
LF: Ted Williams
1B: Carl Yastrezmski
DH: David Ortiz
3B: Wade Boggs
SS: Nomar Garciaparra
C: Carlton Fisk
RF: Dwight Evans

SP: Bruce Hurst, Lefty Grove, Babe Ruth, Cy Young

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

CF: Ellis Burks
2B: Marty Barrett
LF: Ted Williams
1B: Carl Yastrezmski
DH: David Ortiz
3B: Wade Boggs
SS: Nomar Garciaparra
C: Carlton Fisk
RF: Dwight Evans

SP: Bruce Hurst, Lefty Grove, Babe Ruth, Cy Young

Ellis Burks over Tris Speaker???

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

After looking at my picks I noticed that as well. I guess it is better to limit my search to a few decades instead of one team

touché

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

CF: Ellis Burks
2B: Marty Barrett
LF: Ted Williams
1B: Carl Yastrezmski
DH: David Ortiz
3B: Wade Boggs
SS: Nomar Garciaparra
C: Carlton Fisk
RF: Dwight Evans

SP: Bruce Hurst, Lefty Grove, Babe Ruth, Cy Young

never realized the sox were so historically weak at 2B

[howard38]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

never realized the sox were so historically weak at 2B

Bobby Doerr.

[packs]

C: Jimmie Foxx
1B: Gehrig
2B: Hornsby
SS: Wagner
3B: Miguel Cabrera
LF: Joe D
CF: Cobb
RF: Ruth
P: Walter Johnson

[Peter_Spaeth]

C Bench
1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS Wagner
3B Schmidt
LF Williams
CF Mays
RF Ruth
RHP Johnson
LHP Grove
RP Rivera

[tiger8mush]

Pre-war lineup:
1. CF Cobb
2. SS Wagner
3. 1B Gehrig
4. LF Ruth
5. 2B Hornsby
6. RF Ott
7. C Cochrane
8. 3B Baker
9. SP WaJo
(RP = Grover C. Alexander; DH = Foxx)

Post-war lineup:
1. RF Ichiro
2. 1B Musial
3. CF Mays
4. LF Williams/Bonds (can't decide)
5. C. Pudge Rodriguez
6. 2B Carew
7. SS Ripken
8. 3B B. Robinson
9. SP Gibson
(RP = Mariano; DH = Big Papi)
(wanted to get Rickey Henderson at LF, but ...)

Rob

[alanu]

1. Ty Cobb CF
2. Ryne Sandberg 2B
3. Babe Ruth LF
4. Lou Gehrig 1B
5. Roberto Clemente RF
6. Ernie Banks SS
7. Josh Gibson
8. Mike Schmidt 3B
9. Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Christie Mathewson, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson

[RTK]

Originally Posted by alanu

1. Ty Cobb CF
2. Ryne Sandberg 2B
3. Babe Ruth LF
4. Lou Gehrig 1B
5. Roberto Clemente RF
6. Ernie Banks SS
7. Josh Gibson
8. Mike Schmidt 3B
9. Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Christie Mathewson, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson

Nice call on Ernie at SS, I had thought about that but I never saw him play the position live or on film. I know he wasn't known for great range. I only saw him play 1st later in his career.

Mantle probably would have made the OF had he not injured his knee and taken better care of himself through out his career. Watching Mike Trout these days must have been what it was like to watch a young Mantle

[glynparson]

1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Joe Morgan
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Honus Wagner
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Willie Mays
LF- Barry Bonds
C- Johnny Bench
Sp- Walter Johnson

Rp- Mariano Rivera
Utility- Pete Rose
DH- Ty Cobb

The Line Up

Honus Wagner
Willie Mays
Lou Gehrig
Barry Bonds
Babe Ruth
Mike Schmidt
Johnny Bench
Joe Morgan
Walter Johnson

Line Up with DH

Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner
Lou Gehrig
Barry Bonds
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Mike Schmidt
Johnny Bench
Joe Morgan

[jiw98]

Post war line-up
1st- E. Murray
2nd- R. Alomar
3rd- M. Schmidt
SS- C. Ripkin Jr.
RF- T. Williams
CF- W. Mays
LF- B. Bonds
C- Y. Berra
RHP- G. Maddux
LHP- R. Johnson
RP- M. Rivera

This list only includes players that are already retired. There are current players that could be considered, but I went with the final product.

[sycks22]

C - Gibson
1B - Gehrig
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - Wagner
OF - Mays
OF - Cobb
OF - Ruth

SP - Walter Johnson
RP - Rivera

DH - Foxx

[brewing]

Considering only starting 9. Here's mine of players not listed.

C Piazza
1B Greenberg
2B E Collins
3B Mathews
SS Trammell
LF Henderson
CF Mantle
RF Crawford
SP Mathewson


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[earlywynnfan]

how about this: take away the top-3 rated at each position (per Bill James, I guess) and THEN pick a team! No Wagners, Ruths, Gehrigs!

Ken

[djson1]

I really think it's too tough to pick these dream teams unless you go by decades since the game has changed so much. Also, once you get into the '90s and '00s, many of the top guys were on steroids...so, it's a level playing field to pick a team from just that roids era.

[33rd Street]

OF. Ruth, Mantle, F Robinson

3b Schmidt ( as much as I'd like to say Brooks just can't)
SS Wagner
2b Robinson
1st Gehrig
C Bench
DH Williams

Starting Four

Johnson
Koufax
Seaver
Spahn

Reliever
Rivera.

That's my team minus the extra pitchers

I think that's a good balance between straight power and defense. I'd take Mantle over Mays cause I firmly believe in his prime that Mantle was better. I could mix and match in the outfield but figured I'd keep them in there natural spots. Jackie might not have the statistics of a Hornsby but all I've ever read about Hornsby was he was miserable in the field and I think given the first 7 to eight years he missed Jackie is right there in the 2nb disscussion with Morgan, Hornsby and Collins. The Starting four could be a mix of at least 15 pitchers but I want complete games and two lefties and two righties. Spahns on there to break up the heat the others bring. If I could break up the outfielders I'd take Musial, Aaron, Mays and DiMaggio over Robinson but he was a natural RF and its not like he's anything to sneeze at!

[the 'stache]

Oh good lord. This is going to be tough.

Here's my starting lineup:

1. Rickey Henderson, LF
2. Honus Wagner, SS
3. Lou Gehrig, 1B
4. Mike Schmidt, 3B
5. Babe Ruth, P
6. Johnny Bench, C
7. Ken Griffey Jr, CF
8. Roberto Clemente, RF
9. Rogers Hornsby, 2B

I'll work on finalizing my roster.

[aljurgela]

I really think that Oscar Charleston needs to be in CF... at least on the pre-war team.

That is my 2 cents

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

C - Bench
1B - Gehrig
2B - Hornsby
SS - Wagner
3B - Schmidt
RF - Ruth
CF - Mays
LF - Cobb
P - Koufax

This was really tough. Something seems wrong about leaving Hank Aaron off the team but I can't find a place for him without a DH. Batting order would be much difficult. Here is a stab at that.

1 - Cobb
2 - Hornsby
3 - Ruth
4 - Mays
5 - Gehrig
6 - Wagner
7 - Schmidt
8 - Bench
9 - Koufax

I tried to stagger my lineup so there aren't too many lefties in a row. Again, the order would be much different with a DH.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by alanu

1. Ty Cobb CF

2. Ryne Sandberg 2B

3. Babe Ruth LF

4. Lou Gehrig 1B

5. Roberto Clemente RF

6. Ernie Banks SS

7. Josh Gibson

8. Mike Schmidt 3B

9. Walter Johnson, Nolan Ryan, Christie Mathewson, Bob Feller, Bob Gibson

Sandberg over Hornsby? What made you pick him?

[33rd Street]

I'd guess he was thinking about defense with Rhino that was my thought with Jackie but I have always thought that given his first 7 years there wouldn't be much doubt on the best second baseman. Could be a personal favorite I always want to put Brooks at third on these things but he just couldn't with the Schmidt's, Mathews etc.

[the 'stache]

I'm just blown away by how many people don't have Babe Ruth as their starting pitcher. There may be better pure pitchers out there, like Koufax, Walter Johnson, Pedro Martinez, or Greg Maddux. But none of them provide the pitching and offense combination of Ruth.

Look at his 162 game averages as a pitcher and a hitter between 1914 and 1919. This is before he became the Sultan of Swat.



His 162 game averages:

21-11 2.18 ERA, 1.14 WHIP
.308 AVG, 21 HR, 96 RBI, .981 OPS, 190 OPS +.

Yes, he led the AL in HRs in 1918 and 1919 with 11 and 29, and that's where the majority of his offensive numbers came from. But he was still a pitcher first. In 1919 he threw 12 complete games, was 9-5 with a sub 3.00 ERA, and put up Triple Crown caliber numbers at the plate.

Walter Johnson was a career .235 hitter. When offense and pitching are both considered, would you take him over Ruth? Sandy Koufax and his .097 average?

Ruth on the mound clears out right field for Clemente, or Aaron, or Kaline.

[t206hof]

How could Cobb not be in some of you guys lineup? Best player this world will ever see.

[Runscott]

Impossible task

of - Cobb
ss - Wagner
1b - Gehrig
of - Ruth
c - Bench, Gibson
2b - Lajoie, Hornsby, Robinson (platooning)
of - Williams, Mays, Dimaggio, Speaker, Mantle (in no order)
3b - Schmidt
p - Johnson
p - Koufax
p - Mathewson
mgr - Anderson
bench coaches - McGraw, Mack (has to wear baseball uniform)
mascot - Bennett

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I'm just blown away by how many people don't have Babe Ruth as their starting pitcher. There may be better pure pitchers out there, like Koufax, Walter Johnson, Pedro Martinez, or Greg Maddux. But none of them provide the pitching and offense combination of Ruth.

I understand the argument but I think that my team has enough offense without Ruth as the pitcher. Also, I trust Koufax to shut the other team down.

[RTK]

Save room for Mike Trout. Bump the thread back up in 10-15 years.

[MooseDog]

The 1972 Oakland A's could beat any all-star team you put together…now THAT was a TEAM!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I understand the argument but I think that my team has enough offense without Ruth as the pitcher. Also, I trust Koufax to shut the other team down.

That's a pretty good point, Alex.

Hmm.

Ok, since I can have 25 guys on my team...

The lineup:

1. Ted Williams, LF
2. Honus Wagner, SS
3. Lou Gehrig, 1B
4. Babe Ruth, RF
5. Mike Schmidt, 3B
6. Ken Griffey, Jr CF
7. Rogers Hornsby, 2B
8. Johnny Bench, C
9. Sandy Koufax, lhp

Rotation

1. Walter Johnson, rhp
2. Pedro Martinez, rhp
3. Greg Maddux, rhp
4. Steve Carlton, lhp

Bullpen
1. Mariano Rivera, rhp
2. Mike Marshall, rhp
3. Dennis Eckersley, rhp
4. Billy Wagner, lhp
5. John Franco, lfp


Bench
1. Ivan Rodriguez, C
2. Joe Morgan, 2B
3. Robin Yount, SS-OF
4. Ty Cobb, CF
5. Willie Mays, CF
6. Roberto Clemente, RF
7. Hank Aaron, RF-1B

I'd be happy with that as my dream team. Lots of versatility. I wanted to keep Rickey Henderson on the team, but I'll be darned if I could find a place to put him. I love my bench. If Johnny Bench gets tired, I have catcher that can hit, and throw out anybody on Earth trying to steal. While I don't have Henderson, I have Joe Morgan and his 689 stolen bases. I guess he'll have to suffice as a pinch runner. Need a pinch hitter? The greatest hitter who ever lived, the true all-time home run king, and a four-time NL batting champion give me some nice options. Oh yeah, and then there's the Say Hey Kid, and the Kid.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

^ I love the inclusion of Billy Wagner. He was one of the most dominant pitchers I have ever seen. Also, some of the biggest legs.

[the 'stache]

Alex, I used to have nightmares about him. The Brewers and Astros played a lot when he was in Houston, obviously. Well, his lifetime splits against the Brewers are downright frightening.



Now these numbers go beyond his tenure with the 'stros, as I can't figure out how to narrow a pitcher's splits to multiple years on baseball reference yet. But this should give you a pretty good indication of just how dominant he was against us.

1.62 ERA. 11.9 K/9 IP. 0.840 WHIP.

Yeah. Billy was impressive, to say the least. And while building my team, I wanted at least one dominant lefty that could come out of the pen.

Imagine being a left handed hitter, and having to face Koufax or Carlton for 8 innings, and then having Wagner come out in the ninth. Lefties against "Lefty" hit .233. Against Koufax, lefties hit .207. And against Wagner, lefties hit .189.

Checkmate. Wagner was just awesome. And if there's any left-handed Hall of Fame reliever, it's him. Look at his last season, for God's sake. At 38 years of age in 2010, he was 7-2 with a 1.43 ERA. He saved 37 games, struck out 104 in 69 2/3 IP, and had a WHIP of 0.865. He struck out 13.5 per 9 IP. That's insane!

He was 47-40 with a 2.35 ERA for his career, saving 422 games, striking out 1,196 in 903 innings. 11.9 K/9 IP for his career, and a 4:1 K:BB ratio for his career (and 4.73 in his final season).

That's Cooperstown worthy, imo. And if Rivera goes in, then Wagner deserves to, also. Compare their career numbers. Rivera saved a lot more games (652 to 422), but they had almost identical ERAs (2.21 for Rivera to 2.31 for Wagner), and Wagner actually had a better WHIP for his career (0.998 to 1.000). And K/9 IP? Wagner blows him out of the water. Rivera whiffed 8.2/9 IP, and again, Wagner clocks in at 11.9. The difference, of course, is their post season performances. Rivera was unhittable. The few post season games Wagner played in, he didn't perform well. But if we're talking regular season dominance, Wagner was Rivera's equal. Rivera converted 89% of his save chances, which is mind blowing. But Wagner, at 86%, was right with him. And that's playing without the New York Yankees behind him.

[stlcardsfan]

Once again Musial is forgotten. Has to be considered as one of the outfielders. Look at Musial vs. Clemente and it's not even close.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Once again Musial is forgotten. Has to be considered as one of the outfielders. Look at Musial vs. Clemente and it's not even close.

Musial isn't being forgotten, trust me. He's one of my all-time favorite players, and as far as I'm concerned, there might not be a better man to ever play the game. And my top 5 favorite baseball cards of all-time? '58 Topps Clemente, T206 Johnson portrait, 1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig #37, 1956 Topps Ted Williams, and the 1953 Bowman Color Stan Musial.

But unfortunately, tough choices have to be made in putting a team together. I'd love to have Mickey Mantle, Christy Mathewson, Jimmy Foxx and a few others on my 25 man roster. I'd love to have Stan the Man, too. But when it comes to Musial, I don't know where to put him, because he didn't just play one position. He started 989 games at first, 868 games in left field, 680 games in right field, and 305 games in center.

Could I put him in left over Ted Williams? Sure, I could. You can't go wrong with either man. In right field? No, I wouldn't put him over Clemente. Roberto Clemente was simply a better outfielder than Musial. Clemente had one of the strongest arms in the game's history, and since I'm facing some of the best teams of all-time, I'd want a guy in right with a gun for an arm. dWAR might not be the best metric ever, but it's good for quick references. Musial had a -9.3 dWAR for his career. Clemente had a 12.1 dWAR for his. And while the Gold Glove didn't exist while Musial played, it did when Clemente played, and there's never been an outfielder to win more than the 12 Gold Gloves Clemente had (only Willie Mays tied him).

I'll probably revise this in the next week or so, and Musial will be one of the players I seriously consider. He's one of the top ten non pitchers of all-time, in my opinion. But I know that I need versatility, and a player like Robin Yount, who could play both shortstop and center field, gives me more versatility than Musial, even though Stan was the superior hitter.

Don't be surprised to see #6 on my next 25 man squad.

[howard38]

if Rivera goes in, then Wagner deserves to, also
_________________________________________________

Wagner may or may not have a HOF case but it shouldn't have anything to w/Rivera. Rivera clearly had the better career and the election of any player should not open the door for similar but lesser players. That would create a slippery slope that would theoretically lead to every eligible player eventually being in the HOF.

[Touch'EmAll]

C - Berra
1B - Gehrig
2B - Hornsby
3B - Schmidt
SS - H. Wagner
RF - Ruth
CF - Mays
LF - Cobb

LHP - Grove
RHP - W. Johnson
Relief - S. Paige

DH - T. Williams

Could possibly put Foxx at 3rd

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Alex, I used to have nightmares about him. The Brewers and Astros played a lot when he was in Houston, obviously. Well, his lifetime splits against the Brewers are downright frightening.

.

He was amazing. I remember going to see the Astros play the Braves when I was a kid. I think I was the only kid that was more excited to see Wagner than Biggio. I still have his "To Alex" autograph in my collection.