NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-19-2023, 05:10 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default JT Realmuto HOF'er?

Do you think JT Realmuto is a HOF'er? He has been top 5 OPS since 2016, and top 2 since 2019; and last year he was the first 20/20 catcher since Ivan Rodriguez in 1999. He also has two GG and three silver sluggers, so he is being honored by voters for his accomplishments.

I bring this up because some MLB writers already passing the crown to Rutschman.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo

Last edited by todeen; 05-19-2023 at 05:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-19-2023, 05:41 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,137
Default

No
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-19-2023, 06:08 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 5,412
Default

I think he's a real longshot. Likely he falls into Jorge Posada / Lance Parrish territory by the time his career is over.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-19-2023, 06:10 PM
cgjackson222's Avatar
cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is online now
Charles Jackson
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Virginia
Posts: 921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Do you think JT Realmuto is a HOF'er? He has been top 5 OPS since 2016, and top 2 since 2019; and last year he was the first 20/20 catcher since Ivan Rodriguez in 1999. He also has two GG and three silver sluggers, so he is being honored by voters for his accomplishments.

I bring this up because some MLB writers already passing the crown to Rutschman.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
He has been top 5 in OPS since 2016 and top 2 in OPS since 2019? Top 2 on his team? I'm not sure where these numbers are coming from.

Guy has a career OPS of 114--not great. But if he has 3 or 4 more years like he did in 2022, sure its a definite possibility.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-19-2023, 06:18 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 5,412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
He has been top 5 in OPS since 2016 and top 2 in OPS since 2019? Top 2 on his team? I'm not sure where these numbers are coming from.

Guy has a career OPS of 114--not great. But if he has 3 or 4 more years like he did in 2022, sure its a definite possibility.
I didn't look it up, but I assume he means from a Catcher.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-19-2023, 06:50 PM
cgjackson222's Avatar
cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is online now
Charles Jackson
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Virginia
Posts: 921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
I didn't look it up, but I assume he means from a Catcher.
Oh, if that is the case, I am not sure top 5 OPS for a catcher is major accomplishment.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-19-2023, 08:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

The way it keeps getting diluted, I guess anything is possible, but with Posey and Molina going in that should satisfy the demand for catchers for many years I would think.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-19-2023, 08:28 PM
cgjackson222's Avatar
cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is online now
Charles Jackson
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Virginia
Posts: 921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The way it keeps getting diluted, I guess anything is possible, but with Posey and Molina going in that should satisfy the demand for catchers for many years I would think.
Do you think Molina getting in is a foregone conclusion? I know he is an amazing fielder, but an OPS+ of 96?

Posey won ROY, MVP, a batting title, and 3 World Series, so I think he has a better case.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-19-2023, 08:34 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
Do you think Molina getting in is a foregone conclusion? I know he is an amazing fielder, but an OPS+ of 96?

Posey won ROY, MVP, a batting title, and 3 World Series, so I think he has a better case.
I should add Mauer as well. Molina not first ballot but yeah he's in,.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-19-2023, 08:44 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,137
Default

I know my view is the minority here and the consensus seems to be that they are hall of famers, but Molina’s traditional and advanced stat lines both are clearly below Cooperstown standard. Posey played well enough but for so few games that I have a hard time seeing it. Someone from that 3 WS Giants team has to make it though so he’ll sail in.

Realmuto is not on track, he’s below any serious candidate.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-19-2023, 09:22 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Deserving or not is not the issue. I think Posey and Molina will nonetheless make it.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-19-2023, 10:02 PM
cgjackson222's Avatar
cgjackson222 cgjackson222 is online now
Charles Jackson
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Virginia
Posts: 921
Default

There are many borderline HOF catchers on the outside looking in: Munson, Gene Tenace, Wally Schang, Bill Freehan, Charlie Bennett, Jorge Posada….

Would like to see one of them get in before being leapfrogged by Molina.

Last edited by cgjackson222; 05-19-2023 at 10:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-19-2023, 10:53 PM
Phishphan21 Phishphan21 is offline
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 18
Default

If JT plays another 20 years then maybe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-20-2023, 04:47 AM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,585
Default

At this point in his career no. Not even border line to me
__________________
Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
Autographed Babe Ruth Baseball Card
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
1925 Lou Gehrig Rookie Card
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-20-2023, 07:43 AM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,434
Default

It really depends on how he ages from here on out, and aging for catchers isn't the easiest thing.

Realmuto has 31.3 WAR according to BB-R...35th all-time for catchers.

Every catcher over 50 career WAR is in the HOF (or will be once Mauer gets in).

Posey is at 44.8 and Molina at 42.3. If Realmuto can get into that range, he'll be a strong candidate.

Considering he's averaged 4.5 WAR per season for his last 5 full seasons (not counting shortened 2020 season), he's got a shot.
__________________
Check out my articles at Cardlines.com!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-20-2023, 09:06 AM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 5,412
Default

I just noticed that Realmuto is almost the exact same age as Thurman Munson, when he had his accident.

Made me realize how much of a shoe-in Munson would have been if he had just played a few more years...even at a mediocre level.

Munson compiled a 46.1 WAR at the same age Realmuto is now. Realmuto is at 31.3 right now.

If he has a Carlton Fisk like 2nd half of his career, he's got a shot. That's a lot to ask though. Fisk had a 4.9 WAR season at age 42, playing mostly as a catcher. That just doesn't normally happen.

Last edited by D. Bergin; 05-20-2023 at 11:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-20-2023, 10:46 AM
BobbyStrawberry's Avatar
BobbyStrawberry BobbyStrawberry is online now
mªttHǝɯ h0uℊℌ
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,770
Default

I think he's destined for the hall of very good.
__________________
_
Successful transactions with: Natswin2019, ParachromBleu, Cmount76, theuclakid, tiger8mush, shammus, jcmtiger, oldjudge, coolshemp, joejo20, Blunder19, ibechillin33, t206kid, helfrich91, Dashcol, philliesfan, alaskapaul3, Natedog, Kris19, frankbmd, tonyo, Baseball Rarities, Thromdog, T2069bk, t206fix, jakebeckleyoldeagleeye, Casey2296, rdeversole, brianp-beme, seablaster, twalk
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-20-2023, 10:58 AM
Seven's Avatar
Seven Seven is online now
James
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
I just noticed that Realmuto is almost the exact same age as Thuman Munson, when he had his accident.

Made me realize how much of a shoe-in Munson would have been if he had just played a few more years...even at a mediocre level.

Munson compiled a 46.1 WAR at the same age Realmuto is now. Realmuto is at 31.3 right now.

If he has a Carlton Fisk like 2nd half of his career, he's got a shot. That's a lot to ask though. Fisk had a 4.9 WAR season at age 42, playing mostly as a catcher. That just doesn't normally happen.
Correct, me if I'm wrong, Munson was beginning to show signs of decline, before his tragic death? Though I do think he would've made the Hall had he not suffered that unfortunate fate.

To the topic at hand, if Realmuto is somehow able to put up his average of 3.5 WAR for the next seven or so seasons, he might get in. Catchers are the hardest position, to make it to the Hall IMO, because of the durability issues all of them run into.
__________________
Successful Deals With:

charlietheexterminator, todeen, tonyo, Santo10fan
Bocabirdman (5x), 8thEastVB, JCMTiger, Rjackson44
Republicaninmass, 73toppsmann, quinnsryche (2x),
Donscards.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-20-2023, 10:08 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
He has been top 5 in OPS since 2016 and top 2 in OPS since 2019? Top 2 on his team? I'm not sure where these numbers are coming from.



Guy has a career OPS of 114--not great. But if he has 3 or 4 more years like he did in 2022, sure its a definite possibility.
I was looking at OPS of starting catchers on Baseball-Reference.com. Since 2018, he has averaged .820. That has placed him #1 or #2 along all starting catchers.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-20-2023, 10:18 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Looking at all of your comments, here is my thinking.... I was trying to make a list of generational catchers since 1990.

1990s: Mike Piazza & Ivan Rodriguez
2000s: Joe Mauer
2010s: Buster Posey & Yadier Molina
2020s (so far): JT Realmuto

One argument for the HOF is peak performance compared to peers. Right now Realmuto has been the best offensive catcher for 5 years. Players at other positions start to get noticed around this time, and if their peak lasts 7-10 years they generally are in strong consideration for the Hall.

I do know that catchers have longevity problems. Reds have had a few who were one season wonders before getting derailed by injuries. But I'm rooting for Realmuto. His 20/20 season last year should have been the offensive story of the Phillies, but he was overshadowed by Harper playing with his elbow injury. He really helped last years WS team tremendously.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo

Last edited by todeen; 05-20-2023 at 10:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-21-2023, 06:04 AM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Looking at all of your comments, here is my thinking.... I was trying to make a list of generational catchers since 1990.

1990s: Mike Piazza & Ivan Rodriguez
2000s: Joe Mauer
2010s: Buster Posey & Yadier Molina
2020s (so far): JT Realmuto

One argument for the HOF is peak performance compared to peers. Right now Realmuto has been the best offensive catcher for 5 years. Players at other positions start to get noticed around this time, and if their peak lasts 7-10 years they generally are in strong consideration for the Hall.

I do know that catchers have longevity problems. Reds have had a few who were one season wonders before getting derailed by injuries. But I'm rooting for Realmuto. His 20/20 season last year should have been the offensive story of the Phillies, but he was overshadowed by Harper playing with his elbow injury. He really helped last years WS team tremendously.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
Sadly to me you can not use the generational catcher argument if the period is not strong with catchers. His peak period is not very strong compared to other generational catchers.

Good player not great just his contemporaries are often one hit wonders like Gary Sanchez
__________________
Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
Autographed Babe Ruth Baseball Card
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
1925 Lou Gehrig Rookie Card
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-21-2023, 07:34 AM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven View Post
Correct, me if I'm wrong, Munson was beginning to show signs of decline, before his tragic death? Though I do think he would've made the Hall had he not suffered that unfortunate fate.
Munson had shown signs of a significant decline, but agreed that maybe three more years would have probably put him over the top. He just needed more stat padding which would have come with time...1500 hits and 118 HRs is just hard to accept of a hall of famer. If you want to say "what if" you hit a really slippery slope.

All that said, he was a star when I was a kid, I feel like the 70s are largely underrepresented and I wouldn't cry foul if he made it in a side door to Cooperstown.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-21-2023, 03:43 PM
packs packs is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,757
Default

Jorge Posada gets no respect. While never failing a test I think there was something artificial about both Piazza and Pudge's careers and they were the only better catchers than Posada during his career. He was certainly better than 9 out of 10 catchers and he fell below 5% on his first ballot.

No way Realmuto gets any serious consideration.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-21-2023, 06:39 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Jorge Posada gets no respect. While never failing a test I think there was something artificial about both Piazza and Pudge's careers and they were the only better catchers than Posada during his career. He was certainly better than 9 out of 10 catchers and he fell below 5% on his first ballot.

No way Realmuto gets any serious consideration.
I always suspected both of those guys.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-22-2023, 05:23 AM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,434
Default

The thing that really hurt Posada is that he didn't play a full season until his age 27 season. Before his age 30 season, he played in only 443 big league games.

The fact that based on that and being a catcher he's even in the conversation of something like the Hall of Fame is really impressive.

By comparison, Rodriguez debuted at 19 and had played 1,371 games by his age 30 season. Piazza debuted at 23 and had played 840 games by his age 30 season.
__________________
Check out my articles at Cardlines.com!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-22-2023, 07:29 AM
philliesfan philliesfan is offline
Robert J. Miller
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Near Philadelphia, Pa.
Posts: 1,672
Default

Yes. If you compare his stats to Rizzuto. Otherwise not yet.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-22-2023, 08:09 AM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Jorge Posada gets no respect. While never failing a test I think there was something artificial about both Piazza and Pudge's careers and they were the only better catchers than Posada during his career. He was certainly better than 9 out of 10 catchers and he fell below 5% on his first ballot.

No way Realmuto gets any serious consideration.

posada should have gotten more respect and consideration. But to me he was bordeline HOFer
__________________
Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
Autographed Babe Ruth Baseball Card
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
1925 Lou Gehrig Rookie Card
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:15 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrreality68 View Post
posada should have gotten more respect and consideration. But to me he was bordeline HOFer
One side effect of the more transparent HOF voting process (which is generally a good thing) is that it seems like borderline candidates who at least deserve to hang around the ballot a few years are falling below the 5% threshold faster than in the past.

There are lots of guys who probably aren't Hall of Famers, but a few years on the ballot may allow for further appreciation of their careers.
__________________
Check out my articles at Cardlines.com!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:23 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I always suspected both of those guys.
I think the "suspected" thing is kind of garbage. You can make a circumstantial accusation against most any player...hard to prove a negative.

Heck, not going to go near saying Posada used, but a guy who suddenly became an above-average regular at 27, played until he was 40, and played with guys like Giambi, Sheffield, and Pettitte? See how easy it is to "suspect" someone?
__________________
Check out my articles at Cardlines.com!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:28 PM
JollyElm's Avatar
JollyElm JollyElm is offline
D@rrΣn Hu.ghΣs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,876
Default

People can throw around all of the advanced stats they want, but the difference here with Posada is that we 'all' saw him play his entire career. Watching countless Yankees games on Channel 11, not once did I think of him as a Hall of Famer. The thought never entered my mind. Various other players, like Jeter, yup, but not Posada.
__________________
Take a look at my funny Baseball Cards T-Shirts:
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=320524

Interested in trading? Check out my bucket:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706

“I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.”
Casey Stengel

Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s.

Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:33 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D. View Post
I think the "suspected" thing is kind of garbage. You can make a circumstantial accusation against most any player...hard to prove a negative.

Heck, not going to go near saying Posada used, but a guy who suddenly became an above-average regular at 27, played until he was 40, and played with guys like Giambi, Sheffield, and Pettitte? See how easy it is to "suspect" someone?
I hear you, but if memory serves there were some pretty valid reasons to suspect Piazza and IRod and a lot of people did at the time.

As for Posada, this Sox fan would pick him for his team every time and twice on Sundays, but not a HOFer.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-22-2023 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:36 PM
Mike D. Mike D. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: West Greenwich, RI
Posts: 1,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I hear you, but if memory serves there were some pretty valid reasons to suspect Piazza and IRod and a lot of people did at the time.
In my memory, the reasons were stuff like "big muscles and pimpley backs" but I may have missed some more compelling stuff.
__________________
Check out my articles at Cardlines.com!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-22-2023, 03:39 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d. View Post
in my memory, the reasons were stuff like "big muscles and pimpley backs" but i may have missed some more compelling stuff. :d
lol.

Piazza admitted to using andro.

https://www.metstoday.com/10592/14-1...d-taking-peds/

I am sure Canseco named IRod, for whatever that is or isnt worth. Frank Thomas I think also accused him.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-22-2023 at 03:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:11 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Article stating that Statcast ranks Realmuto as the best skills catcher in MLB. He has the best transfer time, second fastest throw, and is third in caught stealing percentage. He leads in put outs since 2016, 118 vs 81 for second place Martin Maldonado.

Check out this story from Fox Sports
https://foxsports.onelink.me/SY6x/99uvp0ue

Which by the way, JT Realmuto does not have a RC shield on his card. He was only released in Topps Update and High Series Heritage in 2015. But in 2014, Donruss had a RC card shield for him.


Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo

Last edited by todeen; 05-26-2023 at 10:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:18 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

I don't follow your point? If his RC is in 2014 you wouldn't expect his 2015 cards to be designated RCs?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:31 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I don't follow your point? If his RC is in 2014 you wouldn't expect his 2015 cards to be designated RCs?
I believe Topps marks rookies only considering other Topps cards and nobody else; they don’t care if Panini or Upper Deck or whoever makes a card first. Thus, it’s an error.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:42 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
I believe Topps marks rookies only considering other Topps cards and nobody else; they don’t care if Panini or Upper Deck or whoever makes a card first. Thus, it’s an error.
I thought MLB determined the criteria for the RC logo. What Topps cards are designated RC where another manufacturer printed one with an RC logo in an earlier year? I can't think of any player with cards from different years both with the logo. Or are you saying only Topps is allowed to use an official logo?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-25-2023 at 07:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:54 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,137
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I thought MLB determined the criteria for the RC logo. What Topps cards are designated RC where another manufacturer printed one with an RC logo in an earlier year? I can't think of any player with cards from different years both with the logo. Or are you saying only Topps is allowed to use an official logo?
No. I said that when Topps applies the logo, meeting the MLB rules that it comes after a players first game, they apply it to the players first year Topps cards. I don’t think they track if a player appeared in Panini or Upper Deck Goodwin or whatever first. Thus, the poster is highlighting the oddity. That’s it.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:56 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
No. I said that when Topps applies the logo, meeting the MLB rules that it comes after a players first game, they apply it to the players first year Topps cards. I don’t think they track if a player appeared in Panini or Upper Deck Goodwin or whatever first. Thus, the poster is highlighting the oddity. That’s it.
So the Donruss 2014 logo does not meet the criteria? OHHHH, I see now, it's not an official logo on the Donruss. LOL. They just made up their own. OK I think I see the issue now.

In my defense, Tim's post was not a model of clarity.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-25-2023 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-25-2023, 07:59 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,137
Default

Editing since it was edited and isn’t relevant now.

Last edited by G1911; 05-25-2023 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 05-25-2023, 08:02 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Are there other post-official logo cards with an unofficial logo?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-25-2023, 08:05 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

He came up end of 2014. Might the Donruss rookie set have been issued after his debut? And if so, what's his rookie card, since the Donruss would seem to meet the criteria at that point, no? I hope he never makes the HOF so I don't have to deal with this.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-26-2023, 10:35 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
Jay Shumsky
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,242
Default

From the Jason Stark column mentioned in a different thread, he has Realmuto as a possibility but not close enough to give him a good chance right now.

J.T. REALMUTO — I came really close to including Realmuto in the “On a Path” Club. I couldn’t quite get there. On one hand, he’s 32 and still has accumulated “only” 31.0 WAR. On the other hand, that feels too low.

How long has he been in the Best All-Around Catcher in Baseball debate? Five years? Eight years? There’s not much argument that he has been the best defensive catcher in the sport for most of those years. He’s also among the best offensive catchers in the sport. And he goes to the post so much, no other catcher is within 100 games caught of him over those last eight seasons.

I’m not sure why WAR has always been an imperfect way to measure catchers. But that feels especially true in his case. What Adley Rutschman aspires to be, Realmuto already is.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-26-2023, 10:51 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
He came up end of 2014. Might the Donruss rookie set have been issued after his debut? And if so, what's his rookie card, since the Donruss would seem to meet the criteria at that point, no? I hope he never makes the HOF so I don't have to deal with this.
My post about his 2015 card missing the RC shield is to highlight how many modern buyers don't like off brands that cannot officially use the team emblems on jerseys. So for modern collectors of all things Topps (like me - I just cannot buy Panini products), it creates a conundrum. Do I buy the 2014 Donruss Realmuto because that is his only RC, or do I follow Beckett's lead and buy the 2015 Topps Update that has no shield, and simply declare it his offical RC?

https://www.beckett.com/news/the-dai...o-rookie-card/
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-26-2023, 10:54 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
From the Jason Stark column mentioned in a different thread, he has Realmuto as a possibility but not close enough to give him a good chance right now.

J.T. REALMUTO — I came really close to including Realmuto in the “On a Path” Club. I couldn’t quite get there. On one hand, he’s 32 and still has accumulated “only” 31.0 WAR. On the other hand, that feels too low.

How long has he been in the Best All-Around Catcher in Baseball debate? Five years? Eight years? There’s not much argument that he has been the best defensive catcher in the sport for most of those years. He’s also among the best offensive catchers in the sport. And he goes to the post so much, no other catcher is within 100 games caught of him over those last eight seasons.

I’m not sure why WAR has always been an imperfect way to measure catchers. But that feels especially true in his case. What Adley Rutschman aspires to be, Realmuto already is.
Realmuto has been in the Top 3 Argument since 2016, and officially became #1 catcher in 2018. He is certainly at his peak for 2-3 more years. When he hits 34/35 yo, we will see him start to slip. I really hope with the new baserunning rules we see him reach the 30/30 standard. Wouldn't that be something.
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-26-2023, 11:25 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
Jay Shumsky
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
Realmuto has been in the Top 3 Argument since 2016, and officially became #1 catcher in 2018. He is certainly at his peak for 2-3 more years. When he hits 34/35 yo, we will see him start to slip. I really hope with the new baserunning rules we see him reach the 30/30 standard. Wouldn't that be something.
His career high for home runs is 25 so getting to 30 seems unlikely as he ages.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-26-2023, 11:50 AM
packs packs is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,757
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
People can throw around all of the advanced stats they want, but the difference here with Posada is that we 'all' saw him play his entire career. Watching countless Yankees games on Channel 11, not once did I think of him as a Hall of Famer. The thought never entered my mind. Various other players, like Jeter, yup, but not Posada.
Who is a recent Hall of Fame catcher that you’ve watched every day? What made them a HOFer and not Posada? I’d rather have Posada than Posey and people seem to generally view Posey as a no doubter.

Last edited by packs; 05-26-2023 at 12:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-26-2023, 02:54 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum View Post
His career high for home runs is 25 so getting to 30 seems unlikely as he ages.
It's a stretch. But Votto proved that players can change their approach at the plate for more power. I think that was in 2021. So Realmuto could give up something for more power. Of course that might affect his SB. Regardless, it would certainly be interesting.
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-29-2023, 01:11 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen View Post
My post about his 2015 card missing the RC shield is to highlight how many modern buyers don't like off brands that cannot officially use the team emblems on jerseys. So for modern collectors of all things Topps (like me - I just cannot buy Panini products), it creates a conundrum. Do I buy the 2014 Donruss Realmuto because that is his only RC, or do I follow Beckett's lead and buy the 2015 Topps Update that has no shield, and simply declare it his offical RC?

https://www.beckett.com/news/the-dai...o-rookie-card/
I vote for 2014. It's not a prospect card, it's not an insert, it's not an online only, so how is it not his RC?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:35 PM.


ebay GSB