ANYONE interested in piggybacking with me to SGC? ALL GRADES POSTED!

[bobbyw8469]

Just want to keep this small.....small enough to get past the 50 card threshold to get $18 per card grading. No, it is not a super special. I am just tired of waiting on PSA to run a decent special.

[Vintagedeputy]

There's a group here in Northern Va. that does subs regularly. I'm going to be sending a group of cards to them and I can pass on their info to you if you're interested.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

There's a group here in Northern Va. that does subs regularly. I'm going to be sending a group of cards to them and I can pass on their info to you if you're interested.

I rather keep it just for my friends here in Net54 if you don't mind. I do it for them mainly. It's not a business for me. I just do it occasionally if someone wants to send something in.

[Casey2296]

I have 6 crossovers I can send Bobby.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I have 6 crossovers I can send Bobby.

Cool!!! I currently have around 20. So we are halfway there.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I have 6 crossovers I can send Bobby.

When you say crossovers, are these already broken out?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

When you say crossovers, are these already broken out?

No

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

No

Ohhh.....I'm not familiar.....I am thinking SGC lets you combine crossovers with raw card grading?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ohhh.....I'm not familiar.....I am thinking SGC lets you combine crossovers with raw card grading?

Yes, you just have to pick crossover on the pulldown menu when ordering.

[Jay Wolt]

Bobby I have 5 oddball that I can send, Thanks!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hope y'all do better than my recent disaster of a sub through a friend.

[BioCRN]

I'm in for 2 if you get enough interest to do an order.

[bobbyw8469]

50 gets the best pricing. I am trying to make it happen.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I hope y'all do better than my recent disaster of a sub through a friend.

My stuff is vintage non-sport, which I expect Auth, 1, 2's anyway

[Casey2296]

Bobby, I can always add a few more if you come up short to make 50.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

My stuff is vintage non-sport, which I expect Auth, 1, 2's anyway

Much of mine was that, but the cards were high grade and gorgeous. Across the board, two grades lower than expected on average, even with expectations geared to tight grading. And in virtually every case, when I carefully reviewed the cards on return, I saw no plausible reason for the grades. Utter waste of hundreds of dollars.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of mine was that, but the cards were high grade and gorgeous. Across the board, two grades lower than expected on average, even with expectations geared to tight grading. And in virtually every case, when I carefully reviewed the cards on return, I saw no plausible reason for the grades. Utter waste of hundreds of dollars.

You subbed with PSA or SGC?

[Jcosta19]

I have 1 or 2 to add

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[bobbyw8469]

Well....let's make it happen Captain. All my past submitters know the routine.

Robert Williams
PO Box 61362
Raleigh, NC 27661-1362

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

You subbed with PSA or SGC?

This was an SGC sub. Very recent. Wasted like $700.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was an SGC sub. Very recent. Wasted like $700.

.. GAAHH $700 ?? Pics of "before " and " after" available ?. T.Y.

..

[steve B]

What sort of cards, and what value limit?

[bobbyw8469]

5x7 and smaller. $1500 and under.

[cubman1941]

I will have a few.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This was an SGC sub. Very recent. Wasted like $700.

Damn.,....sorry to hear that peter.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Much of mine was that, but the cards were high grade and gorgeous. Across the board, two grades lower than expected on average, even with expectations geared to tight grading. And in virtually every case, when I carefully reviewed the cards on return, I saw no plausible reason for the grades. Utter waste of hundreds of dollars.

This is not directed at you but I bet the most frequent complaint made by submitters is that their stuff was not assessed fairly. Sadly the graders are too arrogant to consider this to ever be an accurate statement and that is flavored by the fact that few collectors pick up flaws that render a card a lower grade while it might appear nicer and even fewer can detect alterations.

The present environment for grading at both PSA and SGC is overly conservative therefore I feel your comment has a great deal of credibility. Being disappointed and feeling like you were just robbed at the ATM is a familiar feeling when grades finalize.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

This is not directed at you but I bet the most frequent complaint made by submitters is that their stuff was not assessed fairly. Sadly the graders are too arrogant to consider this to ever be an accurate statement and that is flavored by the fact that few collectors pick up flaws that render a card a lower grade while it might appear nicer and even fewer can detect alterations.

The present environment for grading at both PSA and SGC is overly conservative therefore I feel your comment has a great deal of credibility. Being disappointed and feeling like you were just robbed at the ATM is a familiar feeling when grades finalize.

Right. I've been submitting cards for about 30 years, since shortly after PSA started. I am admittedly not as good as I could be in catching alterations, but I can grade, and my expectations on this group were conservative in light of the current environment. But many if not most of these grades were ludicrous. Any vintage card has some tiny flaws compared to an ultra modern creation. But to translate some tiny flaw into a two or three grade deduction, I mean eff that. A mint vintage card is not a 6. I never would have spent the money for these holders.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Right. I've been submitting cards for about 30 years, since shortly after PSA started. I am admittedly not as good as I could be in catching alterations, but I can grade, and my expectations on this group were conservative in light of the current environment. But many if not most of these grades were ludicrous. Any vintage card has some tiny flaws compared to an ultra modern creation. But to translate some tiny flaw into a two or three grade deduction, I mean eff that. A mint vintage card is not a 6. I never would have spent the money for these holders.

Yeah I am not doubting your experience or your eye on assessment. I think the point of reference for most in the grading room is seeing shiny modern cards that are flawless or nearly so. These boys do not have the ability to adjust their perspective. At least that is my theory. That a card is graded accurately is no longer important to these graders. Just get the stuff graded and get it shipped. If it is graded too low, the guy getting hammered is not going to stop doing business with them. If the card is graded too high, unlikely there would be complaints. Lots of holder buyers out there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Yeah I am not doubting your experience or your eye on assessment. I think the point of reference for most in the grading room is seeing shiny modern cards that are flawless or nearly so. These boys do not have the ability to adjust their perspective. At least that is my theory. That a card is graded accurately is no longer important to these graders. Just get the stuff graded and get it shipped. If it is graded too low, the guy getting hammered is not going to stop doing business with them. If the card is graded too high, unlikely there would be complaints. Lots of holder buyers out there.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but to me it's all about the grade. I couldn't care less if it takes 5 days or 30 to grade, I just don't want 8s graded 5 or 9s graded 6, because there's no value added for the money spent. Had this batch graded even decently, I had hundreds more raw cards I was prepared to send in. Now, not going to do it.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe I'm old fashioned but to me it's all about the grade. I couldn't care less if it takes 5 days or 30 to grade, I just don't want 8s graded 5 or 9s graded 6, because there's no value added for the money spent. Had this batch graded even decently, I had hundreds more raw cards I was prepared to send in. Now, not going to do it.

Agree completely. Do the one job right that you are paid to do.

[yanks4]

Peter ...I think you are right on...You know how to grade within a full grade I would guess and I have heard your complaint before. I wonder how many cards are being left ungraded? I would be pissed as you are....so for now they are staying in the binders...maybe forever?......something has gotta give ...these young guys grading have lost their way or is it done purposely???

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by yanks4

Peter ...I think you are right on...You know how to grade within a full grade I would guess and I have heard your complaint before. I wonder how many cards are being left ungraded? I would be pissed as you are....so for now they are staying in the binders...maybe forever?......something has gotta give ...these young guys grading have lost their way or is it done purposely???

I would like to think it's just lack of understanding of how to grade vintage cards. Tiny little flaws inherent in the manufacturing process are not 2 and 3 grade deductions.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Yeah I am not doubting your experience or your eye on assessment. I think the point of reference for most in the grading room is seeing shiny modern cards that are flawless or nearly so. These boys do not have the ability to adjust their perspective. At least that is my theory. That a card is graded accurately is no longer important to these graders. Just get the stuff graded and get it shipped. If it is graded too low, the guy getting hammered is not going to stop doing business with them. If the card is graded too high, unlikely there would be complaints. Lots of holder buyers out there.

This is an interesting discussion which has hijacked Bobby's submission thread.

I was not an early adapter of having cards graded. Graded coins essentially killed coin collecting and I thought the same might be true for baseball cards. I eventually relented and joined the PSA collectors club with its voucher for 7(?) free submissions. I consider myself a pretty tough grader. Like Peter, I have a hard time determining if a card has been altered. I have been on both sides of the PSA grade surprises. I submitted a sweet 1963 Fleer Koufax which I thought was a dead 7. It was graded a 5. As I looked at the card under a loupe, I could see why the card graded lower. I had 1975 Yount and Brett rookies which I thought would grade a 6 come back as 7's. A 68 Mantle maybe a 4-5 came back as a 6. A 1970 Clemente another dead 7 or 8, returned as evidence of being altered.

The consensus on the board seems to be that the third party grading companies have tightened their grading standards. The TPG companies have posted the grading standards since inception. The grading standards should drive the grade with no allowance given for a card printed in 1911 or 2023. Early on the bulk of cards being submitted for grading were likely vintage cards. The one of one, historic cuts and autographed cards were not as prevalent as today. Is it clear that grading was far more lenient to build and establish the vintage card market? Collectors were happy to see their collection receiving mint+ grades and submitted more cards. If it is true that generous grading was the norm what happens when 700 E98's are found in Defiance, Ohio ( https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...l-card-find/)? The majority of that find were mint or better. An inherent bias exists on this board for new holders vs old holders or for no holders at all. New holders fetch more iron and in theory were graded under tougher standards, hence a truer grade.

I agree with Chase that the graders are used to seeing shiny, laser cut cards because I assume post 2010 cards make up the majority of the submissions. I believe that the bulk of high end vintage cards have already been slabbed. Oh, there will vintage finds from time to time but nothing like the 1952 Topps Rosen find or the Black Swamp find. I hope I am wrong, I want to find a stash of cards and I don't want to see the hobby go the way of coin collecting.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

5x7 and smaller. $1500 and under.

Bobby, do exhibits and T202 qualify for the $18 price? I have 5 cards I can send you.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by todeen

Bobby, do exhibits and T202 qualify for the $18 price? I have 5 cards I can send you.

I meant 3.5 x 5.5 and smaller. Not 5x7.......you have to measure the card.....are exhibits larger than 5.5?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by todeen

Bobby, do exhibits and T202 qualify for the $18 price? I have 5 cards I can send you.

The early cards could be purchased for a penny (years later they cost a little bit more) and were postcard size, measuring 3-3/8 inches x 5-3/8 inches.

So yes....if that is your size sounds like they are OK.

[BioCRN]

Putting 2 in the mail today. Thanks again.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Putting 2 in the mail today. Thanks again.

So its a go!
Bobby send me your address & I'll send 5 your way w/ payment
Thanks...jay

[JollyElm]

Hey Bobby,
What's your cut off date for us would-be miners digging through our stuff?

And are you able to submit a card and only have them put 'authentic' on the label? I have that way miscut Brett Rookie that they gave a number to last time, but I just want it to have the big 'A.'

Thanks!

--elm

[Flintboy]

I’ll send around 7-10.
Thanks!

[cubman1941]

Bobby,
I have 4 to put in the mail tomorrow and I am presuming SGC now grades vintage? It has been many years but the last time they would only do "A" on vintage. Thanks.

Jim

[bobbyw8469]

SGC grades vintage....they only put an A on them if there is a problem with them.....or like the Red Mans when they are missing tabs.

[cubman1941]

Thanks, I know when they first started around 1998 they would only put an A on vintage.

[effe]

I've got one headed your way. Is it a problem if I ship signature required? My insurance requires it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by effe

I've got one headed your way. Is it a problem if I ship signature required? My insurance requires it.

No......that is fine.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

Bobby,
I have 4 to put in the mail tomorrow and I am presuming SGC now grades vintage? It has been many years but the last time they would only do "A" on vintage. Thanks.

Jim

SGC had always graded vintage cards.

[clydepepper]

Bobby- How soon do you need them?

I have (10) Mantles I'd like graded.

[Casey2296]

12 cards sent priority, will be there Saturday.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Bobby- How soon do you need them?

I have (10) Mantles I'd like graded.

By the end of the month at least.

[bobbyw8469]

SGC just announced a decent football special. I am subbing some football cards...if anyone wants to get in on that, it is $16 per. For that cheap, they won't slab them if there is an issue with them. They will be returned unslabbed.