Muhammad Ali Autograph on Angelo Marino REAL?

[grandstand69]

Back in the 80's and 90's my Dad and Grandfather did a lot of memorabilia business. They commissioned a lot of the tops stars to autograph items. I myself have gone in same direction less the hiring of players. It's just not as easy now as it was back then. They hired the artist and athlete to sign the Original and 550 limited litho's. I'm going to start selling these now but need a few expierenced collector opinion. The item is of Muhammad Ali Litho/transfer titled "The Greatest". The biggest problem is it's a Angelo Marino was the artist they hired back in 1993. I know immediately this piece would be scrutenized if I didn't have proof of the signing session. I do know they made most of their cash back by selling the original painting Marino did of this piece. Fortunately I have photographs of Ali signing these litho's. Due to opersation bullpen every Marino piece is thrown out as junk. So, I ask the members to take a look at these. This piece was broken down into two limited litho's. The one I'm showing is limited to 50 and has an original mock-up of the champ with original pencil auto's of artist and Ali on all 50 pieces. The other 500 were signed in pencil by both with no mock-up.

[Mr. Zipper]

I'm not sure if there is a question in there.

Nice looking piece. Speaking for myself, no matter how real, I would not want one. The Marino name taints it beyond desirability in my view. I'm sure there are collectors who would not care, however.

[jcmtiger]

There is a question here. He wants to know if the autograph is real or not.
I'm not sure if it is, it is different than my signed piece. I had this signed in person in 1985 at a show in Dearborn Michigan. I'm sure ali's signature does change through the years. The white spots are reflections from ceiling lights.

Joe

[travrosty]

Give me a nice big photo of the autograph, straight on and i will tell you if it is real or not.


nice print otherwise and to say its undesirable because of a name is crazy.

[Mr. Zipper]

What am I missing here? The OP states his grandfather and father "hired the artist and athlete to sign the Original and 550 limited litho's." Plus he has photographs of the signing session.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by travrosty

nice print otherwise and to say its undesirable because of a name is crazy.

Call me crazy. I don't want any artwork in my home that came from the family behind the biggest forgery ring in history. Angelo Marino was not an unknowing bystander. Tens of thousands of victims. Tens of millions in fraud. I could never look at it without thinking of that.

[drc]

From what I understand Marino was a well known artist who forged autographs on some of his own artwork he sold. There's no reason he couldn't have been hired as an artist by a third party for their own signings. Presumably, this being before the third party (and others) knew Marino was forging autographs (or had yet to forge) on his own.

If I'm correct, Marino was a well known artist, presumably hired by others to do artwork, before he started forging autographs.

[grandstand69]

Travis, just in case you were interested I went to the storage and pulled 20 of the 300+ Ali Lithographs I mentioned. I took some pictures of the pieces I'll be selling off. You mentioned if you saw a few all together it would be easier, so I've done just that. I also have another angle of Ali Signing which clearly shows location. Keep in mind I'm bugging the experts in this field only because I don't want an item kicked off eBay which in turn hurts my selling standard rating. I know my grandfather and pops would not have left these to me to sell if something shady was behind it all. Hopefully this helps.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by grandstand69

Travis, just in case you were interested I went to the storage and pulled 20 of the 300+ Ali Lithographs I mentioned. I took some pictures of the pieces I'll be selling off. You mentioned if you saw a few all together it would be easier, so I've done just that. I also have another angle of Ali Signing which clearly shows location. Keep in mind I'm bugging the experts in this field only because I don't want an item kicked off eBay which in turn hurts my selling standard rating. I know my grandfather and pops would not have left these to me to sell if something shady was behind it all. Hopefully this helps.

thanks, it does help. you know that these are good. You don't have to prove it to anyone, except maybe ebay if they question it. but thats the problem if they want to sink it, they will and not much you can do. Doesn't mean they are no good, just that ebay wont allow them to be listed. True boxing collectors that know what they are doing will go by the signature, not the artist who made the lithograph, no matter how he is connected to past forgeries. The autograph will stand on its own. There will always be people who see the Marino family name and won't want anything associated with it, even if its legit. That's their perogative, but it means that much more for the rest of us, who want Ali's signature and not Angelo's. but also don't let the Angelo connection sink a good autograph.

however, if you put one on ebay, you cant just tell ebay that this guy or that guy checked them out. because they dont listen, they will go with what psa or whoever they have on staff thinks. thats a big problem, but its not something anyone else can solve. i think having the photo of ali signing the lithographs would help prove your case to ebay in case they tried to pull it. but otherwise it is a crabshoot.

If they are hell bent on taking them off of ebay, then they will, and it will be because someone reported it and psa or someone else they rely on agreed, (rightly or wrongly), and saying that this boxing guy or that one liked it won't help unfortunately. I wish it would help.

The good news is that good, legit Ali signatures are good legit Ali signatures. Nothing can change it and there will always be a market for it.