1900's? Football napkin holder figural- pewter?

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Posted By: leon

Anyone have ideas about this? I would venture to guess it's from the 1930's from the way it's made...but I really have no idea....maybe earlier....it's about 4 inches tall and very heavy..??

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Posted By: Mark Steinberg

Pretty safe to say it's from the 1920s or '30s. I own a few, but they are all baseball related. This football one is very nice, with very similar style and structure.

If this was a baseball one, it would be worth around $400. Football typically commands a slightly lesser price... perhaps valued at $250 - $350. Hope this helps...

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Posted By: CarltonHendricks

Leon, You don't say if you bought this, I hope not. I've seen a number of napkin rings around at antiques shows that look fake, and I recall someone somewhere saying you have to be careful, that there are fake napkin rings out there. I'd seen the one you picture on eBay recently, and immediately became disgusted (I just looked and it's still up) ...The same seller has a baseball one that's even worse looking...has the same ping hammer indentions on the hollowed out ring part...what a coincidence!....STAY AWAY from it if you haven't bought it yet. I don't recall ever seeing a football napkin ring, not one from the 19th or the early 20th century in 20 plus years. And the real ones look much better than that one. Sorry but thumbs down. Antique sports figural items are my hot button, I've been collecting them 20 years, and I think I know a little about it. -Carlton

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Posted By: leon

It's a potential consignment. If you are fairly sure it's not "period" to the 40's or prior to that then we probably won't run it. We don't need any conflicts right out of the gate. Are you fairly sure it's not good? It really does way a few pounds and seems to be made well....but the pressing isn't real detailed....

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Posted By: Mark

Pictured is a Baseball one I own, and know to be real. It came from a Live Hunt Auction, and matches known exemplars to a tee.

I am also picturing the Football one currently on Ebay, which appears to be a reproduction. The ebay item # is 220232795400. Leon, it appears to be strikingly similar (if not identical) to your potential consignment. This Ebay piece has a Buy it Now price of $295, and this seller does have a worse looking baseball example as well.

Looks like Carlton is right on, as usual... the odds of two of these pieces surfacing simultaneously is miniscule, at best.

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Posted By: CarltonHendricks

Leon,
Well, I hate to be the napkin ring police but no, I don’t think it’s real based on my experience and intuition as a collector. However what you could use is an expert in silver plate Victorian napkin rings, and they’re out there. I’m a generalist but I appreciate figural items.

Probably the best antiques show in the S.F. bay area is the Hillsborough Antiques show, comes three times a year I think. The front hall is the more high brow stuff, the back hall is more Americana, this is a wide generalization. In the front hall, there are usually about three dealers who specialize in napkin rings. Their booths are full of them and they are all glistening examples. The one you’re showing would stick out like a sore thumb compared to the quality they deal in. I wish I had the email address of Ronald E. Van Anda of Lititz, PA. He’s prolific in them. If you could show it to him you’d get it straight from a specialist. I googled him but didn’t get any emails address.

FYI, This is off your football napkin ring subject but while I was trying to find his email address for you I came across an interesting story about Van Anda that I just have to share. Seems he was victimized at the Atlantique City show by a bad check. Later he was doing a gun show in Las Vegas when the perpertratior come into his booth. Get this this story below, I think our community will appreciate it.

quote: http://www.robertsgallery.com/news.htm
HOORAY FOR RON VAN ANDA
2/04
Three cheers for Pennsylvania dealer Ron Van Anda! I have never met this man but I would love to shake his hand, and here's why: last October Mr. Van Anda, along with a number of other dealers, fell victim to two men who kited checks to the tune of $100,000 at the Atlantique City show in New Jersey. Fast forward to Jan. 18, 2004, where Van Anda is doing a gun show in Las Vegas at the Riviera Hotel. Who did he recognize scouting out items on his table? None other than one of the two suspects who stung him at Atlantique City! Thinking fast, Van Anda grabbed the guy and, with the help of a fellow dealer (a retired cop) called for hotel security. The crook's partner then jumped into the fray and he, too, was subdued by dealers until the Las Vegas police arrived. At last word, the FBI was involved and had found outstanding warrants from numerous different states for the pair. And, if Nevada isn't one of them, it probably will be soon. When asked for ideas about a possible reward, Van Anda supposedly suggested free both rent for life at the Atlantique City show. And you know what? I sure hope he gets it.
Here's a tip, by the way, for any would-be crooks like the ones mentioned above: don't mess with gun dealers. From my own observations, they tend to be a different breed than the dealers at your average local antique show. Not to say they are bad, mind you, just cut from a bit tougher cloth. The Atlantique City check bouncers found that out the hard way, and good riddance to them.
http://www.robertsgallery.com/news.htm

Unquote:
Anyway, good luck with the napkin ring but you know my feeling about it, sorry to be the messenger of bad news -Carlton

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Posted By: Sandra Whitson

My husband is the Ron Van Anda that Carlton quotes in his response to these napkin rings. Carlton was successful in tracking us down.
Whereas my husband was the one who caught the bad-check guy from Atlantique City; I am the one who is the specialist in figural napkin rings. I use my maiden name - Sandra Whitson. Yes, my Dad was the well-known toy dealer, Frank Whitson, from Baltimore, MD; so I grew up in the antiquing world. But, I found my own little niche when I fell in love with figural napkin rings. I am both a collector and dealer; and I co-authored the book, Figural Napkin Rings, that was published in 1996. Carlton is very correct when he says that these rings are not period rings (i.e. - 1869-1900). They are being made today. There never was a Victorian football player. There is a wonderful Victorian baseball player napkin ring, made by Pairpoint Mfg. Co. This ring commands a very high price; as it is sought after by both napkin ring collectors and baseball collectors. It goes anywhere from $3500 - $4500.
Don't waste your time or money on these cheap reproductions.
Sandra

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Posted By: leon

Thanks so much for coming on our board to give your expert opinion. We have pulled this lot from our auction. Take care now.....

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Posted By: Ben

Sandra,
I believe this is the Baseball napkin ring you spoke of. The bottom is marked Pairpoint Mfg. Co New Bedford with the number 33. It actually belongs to my grandmother who collected approximately 100 figural napkin rings. I'm not sure what she paid for it as she purchased most of her collection 25+ years ago. She also has the other baseball napkin ring shown here. Any idea as to value on that one?

Ben

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Posted By: CarltonHendricks

Ben,
I don't think Sandra hangs out here too much, she likely just posted that one time, so if you email her, she'll probably be glad to answer with a post.

To the best of my knowledge that one is numero uno, the best baseball napkin ring to have, out of a few that were made. This genera of small silver plate figurals was very popular in the late 19th century. Along with napkin rings there were inkwells, business card holders, pocket watch stands, etc. There is even a baseball thermometer with that same figure as yours. You can see that thermometer on my "silver" page on my site:http://www.sportsantiques.com/silver.htm

That baseball thermometer came out of the 05' REA auction. Over twenty years ago, I located that particular one thru the antique trader from a gal named Schneider in PA. It was $800.00, and out of my price range then. I had just met John Buonaguidi who was already a seasoned collector. I told him about it, not expecting any reward, just good will since I couldn't afford it anyway. John bought it and sent me a check for $50.00. I was surprised, and very happy to get free money as I thought of it then LOL. Years latter John sold it to the guy that consigned it to REA.
-Carlton

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Posted By: Mark

Here's Mine... pictured to the left. And the thermometer still works perfect after all these years!

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Posted By: Sandra Whitson

Hi again -
First of all, Carlton is right - I don't "hang out" at Net 54 - only came to this site at the request of Carlton, who wanted my opinion on the football player napkin ring. But, this seems like a fun group - I might have to check in here more often!
Secondly - congratulations to Leon for pulling the football player napkin ring from his auction. You don't need your reputation clouded by carrying this junk! Go to Brimfield (MA) sometime - you will see these fake rings lined up like cordwood!
Ben - yes, your grandmother's baseball player is the GOOD one! Genuine figural napkin rings date from 1869 - 1900. There is one other that was made - it is a Kate Greenaway boy, with a baseball bat under his arm and a baseball by his foot, as he stands in front of the napkin holder (no base). There are people who LOVE the Kate Greenaway napkin rings and collect them happily. But, in my experience, I have found that the "real" baseball collectors find the Greenaway boy to be a little too "cutesy."
The baseball player thermometer is fantastic - I certainly would have bought it had I ever seen it for sale - but, I have not.
So, maybe I do need to hang out at Net 54 a little more often!
Sandra