Mike Gutierrez cert - render your own opinion, paige, hornung, simpson, Lemieux, Mant

[Sean1125]

There is an extremely fairly priced collection I have been speaking with that comes with an appraisal from Mike.

Is he good to have? Is he bad to have?

I have googled his name as well as the company and can't get a good idea.

I have got an e-mail copy of the appraisal that is signed by him.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/...51/Craigslist/

Thanks,

Sean

[Big Dave]

Mike has been around a long time and like everyone else, has some issues. As for appraisals, I would think these would be on the high side.....always are when he does Antiques Roadside....and back when he actually ran his auctions and sold individually....hasn't had MVP in about 6+ years....sold out to the guys at Premier Auctions

[Sean1125]

I have photos of a ton of the items, if I post them do you guys care to look at them?

*edit posted the link

[Big Dave]

Sure.....will get comments in regard to price and authenticity.....

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Sure.....will get comments in regard to price and authenticity.....

The price for everything is $1500, the authenticity would be the "appraisal" at this point. I trust knowledge veteran collectors over TPA's any day...

[drc]

Gutierrez is a reputable and well known autograph expert. He was an authenticator for PSA/DNA and MastroNet and currently works for Heritage. I know he's done appraisals for the Babe Herman estate and the Pete Rozelle estate.

I'd say it's good if a collection comes with a document from him.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

Gutierrez is a reputable and well known autograph expert. He was an authenticator for PSA/DNA and MastroNet and currently works for Heritage. I know he's done appraisals for the Babe Herman estate and the Pete Rozelle estate.

I'd say it's good if a collection comes with a document from him.

+1 .... like ..... and my newly-coined phrase: "ME 2"

[travrosty]

He was an authenticator for psa, global and is now for jsa.

i would pass on his authentications and look for other opinions, but thats my personal view.

I think he has more baggage than southwest airlines.

[otismalibu]

FWIW, I would not feel comfortable adding that Erving to my collection.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by travrosty

He was an authenticator for psa, global and is now for jsa.

i would pass on his authentications and look for other opinions, but thats my personal view.

I think he has more baggage than southwest airlines.

PSA will be in town next Saturday, so it pays to pick up the stuff if it is authentic, because at that point I can pay for the increase in market value for ebay and save on shipping.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

PSA will be in town next Saturday, so it pays to pick up the stuff if it is authentic, because at that point I can pay for the increase in market value for ebay and save on shipping.

here;s some advice, if you pay for psa authentication and some stuff fails, then you lose money. also a lot of these autos are plentiful, and psa authentication isnt going to gain you a lot. and thats my two cents. wait for a lot more opinions on some of these autographs.

[earlywynnfan]

I've never had a problem with MG. However, I believe this is his signature on this authentication, where he blows it on Joe Giard. I have been trying to reach JSA all week, with zero response, to get this corrected. Does anyone have a way to reach them??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251175243883...84.m1423.l2649

Ken

[Big Dave]

I didn't really see anything worth the money to get a TPA on, especially if you are going to sell on eBay.

[drc]

If someone had the letters t, p and a in his name, Travis would recommend against him.

[toybulldog]

No way on the Sugar Ray, not even a close miss.

[D. Bergin]

The Ray Robinson looks horrible.

[D. Bergin]

Wow, Mark and I must have seen it at the exact same time.

[toybulldog]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Wow, Mark and I must have seen it at the exact same time.

And we didn't even have to enlarge the thumbnail.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by drc

If someone had the letters t, p and a in his name, Travis would recommend against him.

not true, i have always said that a third party authentication system could work, just not the way it is being done now.

as we see with the sugar ray robinson, why reward that type of authentication. i am for competant authentication. if they quit pretending they knew all genres and categories and stuck to what they do know, maybe it would get better.

but you are correct, i haven't been too enthralled or impressed with what we have now. But that's not my fault.

they need a customer bill of rights.

1. you should be able to know just who looked at your autograph and only that person shoudl sign off on the cert.

2. they should show exemplars, especially when asked to back up their opinion.

3. when they make a mistake, own up to it, admit it, take care of it and make it right.

4. slow down and take more time to authenticate autographs, get more opinions, issue more no opinions when you dont know instead of guessing (51% percent system of authenticating sucks)

5. hire more people, get more specialized experts instead of one guy authetnicating 50 different categories with tens of thousands of different names.

6. stick to the hof'ers, major stars and other notables and quit trying to expand to authenticate every c league south american soccer team. Stick to the basics and get the basics right first.

there is a lot more i could add.

[drc]

I agree with a number of your points, Travis

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by drc

I agree with a number of your points, Travis

He makes a number of reasonable points. One in particular though I think is simply impossible from a practical standpoint.

2. they should show exemplars, especially when asked to back up their opinion.

If they were to do this, it's all they would do all day long. They'd have to triple the staff to accomplish this and also continue to do day-to-day operations. Then prices would rise sharply accordingly. Imagine having to explain to every irate submitter why his Burckzyk Mantle is fake? "But my grandfather got it in person!!!" Day after day after day. It would be the 7th circle of hell.

FWIW, CGC, the comic grading company, used to offer graders notes if you called and wanted to know why a book obtained a certain grade. They had to stop offering this service because the graders were on the phone all day long.

[Sean1125]

So are some things good and some bad?

I am familiar with some of the baseball hall of famers (not Koufax), but have no idea on BKB, FB, and boxing.

As I said earlier, the price is incredibly fair at $1500 for that- if everything is authentic. He is moving and needs to get rid of them, so if I have to discount because just a few of the pieces are NG I still want to make him an offer.

[otismalibu]

How many of the pieces are signed magazine pages?

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by otismalibu

How many of the pieces are signed magazine pages?

Looks like the majority are 8x10's.

[Deertick]

I don't like McCovey, Paige, Jackson, Garvey, Koufax, OJ. Come on, there is even a 'Mark Spitz' that has his name mispelled. I only looked at 10 because photobucket kept locking me up, and the other 3 weren't good as much as not as sure. Bad ratio for me to believe it is worth any risk to purchase.

A wise man once said on here something about peeing in a cup.

BTW, I don't believe for a second that MG authenticated a 'collection' as a whole. And how can you appraise something without authenticating first? I'd love to see that email......


Stay away!

[drc]

I'm no expert on appraisals and this is a very broad example, but I read that an appraisal is based on 'assuming the items are authentic.' I give an example of when someone appraises the contents of your home for insurance purposes. You can't expect the appraiser to be an expert on the Superman Comic book on your shelf and the diamond ring and oil painting next to it. You'd be be goofy in the head to expert him to be able to authenticate everything in our house for that one hour hour appraisal. He may ask to see the certification that that ring is real diamond, the receipt/papers for that painting and the LOA your Domonique Wilkens game used jersey, but he's not there as an authenticator. If you read the average appraisal, you will often see that it specifically and overtly says that it is not statement about the authenticity, but only a value estimate based on 'if' the items are real.

I do realize the obvious difference is the case in this thread involves a group of autographs and an appraiser who is an expert in autographs. But keep in mind an appraisal and an authentication are often distinctly different things. For all we know, the customer sent in a list of autographs saying "I need to know the going market value to quote for my insurance" and Gutierrez may have quoted him a going 'if they are real' market price.

Duly note I've never exactly understood appraisals, especially how the heck they come up with their values for items-- so I've long been suspect of the whole scheme. But that's how they work, and how appraisers are taught in appraiser school.

And firstly and lastly and middle, you have to see the actual appraisal document to know what it says. Assuming what it says and intends doesn't feed the bull dog. As noted, it may have simply be a generic quote of market prices because someone asked.

[D. Bergin]

I couldn't count the number of phone calls I've fielded over the years.

"Hello, I have such and such boxing item. How much is it worth?"

It's usually one of two answers.

#1. "It might sell for 50 bucks on Ebay if you are lucky, or $100 bucks or so if you want to retail it, and hold onto it a couple of years before you find the right buyer." (numbers may vary of course)

#2. "It's a fake, reproduction, modern print, a facsimile: not an actual autograph, vintage photo, poster, etc., etc..


Response from the caller. "But I had it appraised and the guy said it was worth $500-$10,000 (or some number in between).

My response. "Ok, who appraised it".

Callers response. "A local Antique guy".

My response. (Repeat my two above answers).

Caller response. "That can't be right, guy appraised it........blah, blah, blah."

My response. "Ok, good luck with your item........here's a list of Sports auction houses you can call or contact with your item.".

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I couldn't count the number of phone calls I've fielded over the years.

"Hello, I have such and such boxing item. How much is it worth?"

It's usually one of two answers.

#1. "It might sell for 50 bucks on Ebay if you are lucky, or $100 bucks or so if you want to retail it, and hold onto it a couple of years before you find the right buyer." (numbers may vary of course)

#2. "It's a fake, reproduction, modern print, a facsimile: not an actual autograph, vintage photo, poster, etc., etc..


Response from the caller. "But I had it appraised and the guy said it was worth $500-$10,000 (or some number in between).

My response. "Ok, who appraised it".

Callers response. "A local Antique guy".

My response. (Repeat my two above answers).

Caller response. "That can't be right, guy appraised it........blah, blah, blah."

My response. "Ok, good luck with your item........here's a list of Sports auction houses you can call or contact with your item.".

When they come in with a totally off the wall price from an "appraiser" my response is "offer it to the appraiser and see how much he will offer you."

[Sean1125]

Ended up just passing on everything, second looks proved too much stuff to look NG. Thanks for the help as always.