Baseball Is Dying

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

Excellent points, but man, there were a lot of long lists of pitchers used!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.

For the life of me, I can't see what's wrong with a rule that makes batters stay in the box, pitchers on the mound, and runners on the bases unless they have a reason to leave and are cleared by the umps to do so.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

For the life of me, I can't see what's wrong with a rule that makes batters stay in the box, pitchers on the mound, and runners on the bases unless they have a reason to leave and are cleared by the umps to do so.

Agree.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

1. Giving the old huevos a good tug and scratch.
2. Sticking a finger in a nostril or ear to see that all is well.
3. Digging around their backside for an invisible wedgie.
4. Repeat #3.
5. Kiss their bling and look hopefully skyward.

Then and only then, after scowling at the earth for an interminable time, might they be ready to step into the batters box.

Owners and umpires must do something to improve game time or fans who are already suffering from the boredom syndrome might drift away altogether in greater numbers.

Ha! Mike Hargrove's nickname from his playing days from 1974-85 was "the human rain delay". So they had batters that took a lot of time at the plate back in the day as well.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not to disagree with your overall point, but I'd attribute some of the unusually low pitch counts for starters so far this year to the abbreviated spring training. Just a few examples I quickly pulled up from yesterday:

Max Scherzer 80 pitches
Charlie Morton 78 pitches
Walker Buehler 78 pitches

These guys will be almost certainly be going deeper into games as the season goes on.

Can't argue with that logic. With the abbreviated Spring training, and long season yet to come, can easily understand teams sort of extending Spring training into the earliest part of the season/year, at least for pitchers.

[bbcard1]

Baseball is not dying nearly as quickly as the print media.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by Yoda

While I agree a pitcher's clock would undoubtedly speed games up, what gets me are some, not all, batters who when before they bat perform their own personal ritual, which includes but is not limited to:

My understanding is that with the most recent pitch clock rules being tested this year, batters must be in the box ready to hit with 9 seconds left on the clock.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

My understanding is that with the most recent pitch clock rules being tested this year, batters must be in the box ready to hit with 9 seconds left on the clock.

What would speed things up would be to cut 5 minutes of commercials every half inning. All the other stuff aside, that is how you speed the game up. But you can't do that, because you absolutely have to have the commercials.

I have close to 300 old radio broadcasts of complete games from the 1934 All-Star Game (oldest known to exist) up to the 1960s, and 114 TV broadcasts of complete games from games 6 and 7 of the 1952 World Series (oldest known to exist) up to today. Almost all the radio broadcasts are about 2 hours 30 minutes, + or -, with nothing cut out or edited, for 9 innings. The TV broadcasts are the same, until you get up into the 1970s, and then they start getting longer and longer due to numerous commercials.

Tinkering with the fundamental rules of baseball is not making the game better, in my humble opinion here. I do not know anyone, young or old, who like any of the rule changes, from 4-finger intentional walks to starting extra innings with a man on 2nd.

The only way to get games back to 2 hours and a half is to cut the commercials. But when Aaron Judge has to have $360 million (or more), it's not gonna happen.

[Shoeless Moe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxengxwzZ8o

[Shoeless Moe]

and.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BWigolLwYU

[Shoeless Moe]

and......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onBHcQgHA4s

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by jingram058

What would speed things up would be to cut 5 minutes of commercials every half inning. All the other stuff aside, that is how you speed the game up. But you can't do that, because you absolutely have to have the commercials.

I have close to 300 old radio broadcasts of complete games from the 1934 All-Star Game (oldest known to exist) up to the 1960s, and 114 TV broadcasts of complete games from games 6 and 7 of the 1952 World Series (oldest known to exist) up to today. Almost all the radio broadcasts are about 2 hours 30 minutes, + or -, with nothing cut out or edited, for 9 innings. The TV broadcasts are the same, until you get up into the 1970s, and then they start getting longer and longer due to numerous commercials.

Tinkering with the fundamental rules of baseball is not making the game better, in my humble opinion here. I do not know anyone, young or old, who like any of the rule changes, from 4-finger intentional walks to starting extra innings with a man on 2nd.

The only way to get games back to 2 hours and a half is to cut the commercials. But when Aaron Judge has to have $360 million (or more), it's not gonna happen.

I think you have stated several times that commercials are the cause. Removing "5 min of commercials every half inning" would result in approximately -2 minutes of commercials.

Here is an interesting study that was done to analyze whether a 20 second pitch clock would speed up games:
https://sabr.org/journal/article/tim...of-long-games/

[Hankphenom]

More frequent pitching changes must have added a ton of time to the games from earlier decades. What does it take, maybe ten minutes, to get a new pitcher in the game, from the departing pitchers final pitch, manager's trip to the mound, in from the bullpen, warmup, etc.? I'd guess there are something like five more pitchers in the average game now compared to, say, 1960 or earlier?

[brass_rat]

That's an interesting article, Jim, thanks.

The conclusion that 20 seconds didn't help is the reason for decreasing the clock to 14 seconds bases empty and 17 seconds with men on.

While the time decrease may not be significant there, it does reduce the recovery time between pitches resulting in pitchers not using max effort on every pitch and pitching to contact more, resulting in shorter at-bats and more action.

If they'd get rid of batter walk-up music, they could shorten that 1 minute lag between batters -- further reducing recovery time and keeping some rhythm.

[Carter08]

This may have been covered already but I think legalized gambling only helps interest in baseball overall.

[D. Bergin]

Interesting article in regards to length of games...specifically playoff games.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/10/20...h-clock-needed

[Shemp]

Hargrove was one of the first, maybe even the first, batter to get away with the routines. Most hitters would stay in the box. Pitchers like Gibson or Drysdale wouldn't allow batters to control the tempo of an at bat.

[dio]

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

[Leon]

Originally Posted by dio

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

Maybe that is a tiny bit of the problem. It's been quite a few years since I have been to a MLB game but it was somewhat expensive back then. I can't imagine it's gotten cheaper, even relatively speaking.
As for me and as I have said before, I quit watching, except for maybe a part of a playoff or series game, after the '94 strike.
.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe that is a tiny bit of the problem. It's been quite a few years since I have been to a MLB game but it was somewhat expensive back then. I can't imagine it's gotten cheaper, even relatively speaking.
As for me and as said I have said before, I quit watching, except for maybe a part of a playoff or series game, after the '94 strike.
.

Good point. I’m lazy about going to actual games and i imagine the prices are insane but I do love watching the Mets on SNY though. Hard to beat listening to stories from Keith Hernandez. I suspect the revenue from the tv stations is a huge part of team value.

[maniac_73]

This chart gives a pretty good explanation of why baseball is dying. I say this after trying to slub through a jays game that after 2 hours was in the 4th inning yesterday. I grew up with baseball and I love baseball. If Im having trouble sitting through a 4 hour game what chance does a kid who's been conditioned to not have an attention span and has a million other choices for entertainment?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Good point. I’m lazy about going to actual games and i imagine the prices are insane but I do love watching the Mets on SNY though. Hard to beat listening to stories from Keith Hernandez. I suspect the revenue from the tv stations is a huge part of team value.

Gary, Keith and Ron are the best in the business. I don't know what they get paid but they are worth every penny, IMO.

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, the multiple pitcher changes nowadays could be the single biggest thing that makes the game too long. Don't know how to fix it, but the downtime is not good.

[Santo10Fan]

Originally Posted by jingram058

This is from the New York Times, not me. I don't know if he is right or not, but I do know that EVERYONE I know absolutely hates baseball in it's present state, even on opening day. The length of games, too many commercials, the DH, robotic umpires, instant replay, starting the 10th inning with a man on 2nd, eliminating minor leagues and teams, yada, yada, yada. It's been discussed but nothing can be done about it It all comes down, in the end, to too much money. Just like baseball cards.

By Matthew Walther

Mr. Walther is the editor of The Lamp, a Catholic literary journal. He writes frequently about sports.

Opening day of the Major League Baseball season, which falls on Thursday after being delayed for a week by a labor dispute, is as good an occasion as any for fans of the game to come to terms with certain hard facts. I am talking, of course, about the inevitable future in which professional baseball is nationalized and put under the authority of some large federal entity — the Library of Congress, perhaps, or more romantically, the National Park Service.

Like the Delta blues or Yellowstone National Park, baseball is as indelibly American as it is painfully uncommercial. Left to fend for itself, the game will eventually disappear.

Attendance at games has declined steadily since 2008 and viewership figures are almost hilariously bleak. An ordinary national prime-time M.L.B. broadcast, such as ESPN’s “Sunday Night Baseball,” attracts some 1.5 million pairs of eyes each week, which is to say, roughly the number that are likely to be watching a heavily censored version of “Goodfellas” on a basic cable movie channel in the same time slot.

Even the World Series attracts smaller audiences than the average “Thursday Night Football” broadcast, the dregs of the National Football League’s weekly schedule. In 1975, the World Series had an average of 36 million viewers per game; in 2021, it barely attracted 12 million per game.

Casual observers may assume that despite this lack of popularity, baseball is still somehow insanely valuable. This is an illusion. Major League Baseball generated around $11 billion in revenue in 2019, but this figure does not accurately reflect the demand for its product. The astronomical salaries that continue to be enjoyed by the sport’s stars (if that is the mot juste) are a result not of the game’s nonexistent popularity but of the economics of cable television providers, who bundle regional sports networks alongside dozens of other channels so that anyone with cable TV is buying baseball whether he likes it or not.

Mike Trout’s $426 million contract is effectively being paid by millions of grandparents who just want to tune in to Anderson Cooper or “Antiques Roadshow.” As that audience dies off and younger generations of “cord cutters” take their place, baseball’s revenue will plummet.

Culturally, too, the game is increasingly irrelevant. The average age of a person watching a baseball game on television is 57, and one shudders to think what the comparable figure is for radio broadcasts. Typical American 10-year-olds are as likely to recognize Jorge Soler, who was named the most valuable player of last year’s World Series, as they are their local congressional representative. College athletes drafted by M.L.B. and N.F.L. teams choose the latter without hesitation.

In some parts of the country, participation in Little League has decreased by nearly 50 percent in the past decade and a half. When my wife and I signed up our 5- and 6-year-old daughters for T-ball a few weeks ago, we did so partly out of a grim sense of obligation. We might have been Irish parents enrolling our children in step dancing classes: This is your heritage and you are going to learn to appreciate it!

So much for the unignorable facts of baseball’s decline. What is to be done?

It is worth being honest upfront about what nationalizing baseball would entail. While I like to think that the Biden administration could seize all 30 teams and dissolve the league by executive fiat, citing language buried somewhere in the text of the Patriot Act, it is more realistic to assume that Congress would have to be involved. Legislation would authorize purchasing the teams at their current (and absurdly inflated) market valuation. Players, coaches and other staff members would become federal employees. The general manager would be appointed by the governor of the state in which the team plays its home games; manager would be a statewide office for which citizens vote every six years. There would be no term limits.

Salaries would be lower, perhaps drastically so, but so would ticket prices. And watching games on television or via online streaming would be much simpler, as broadcasts would be carried exclusively by C-SPAN.

Revenues, though diminished, would be more fairly distributed. I imagine gate receipts and merchandise sales being block-granted to the local authorities in the cities in which teams play, shoring up the coffers of many an ailing municipality. Public funding of stadiums would continue, but instead of being a cynical cash grab by penurious owners, it would be a noble undertaking, accepted by the indifferent citizenry as one of those worthwhile cultural ventures like the Smithsonian Institution that governments are compelled to support.

Do not confuse my intentions. I would gladly see Justin Verlander — once a star pitcher for my Detroit Tigers before being lured away by the Houston Astros — make $25 million a year for playing a boys’ game, just as I would happily pay Simone Young, our greatest living conductor, three times that amount for a single yearly engagement at the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. But the world’s classical musicians long ago realized that the lifestyle of figures like the conductor Herbert von Karajan, with his yachts and custom Porsches, was a product of a vanished age in which the aspirational middle classes felt that buying classical recordings was a duty; so too must baseball players accept that nine-figure contracts are a vestige of an older and nobler civilization.

We need to stop pretending that baseball has a broad-based enthusiastic following and begin to see the game for what it is: the sports equivalent of collecting 78 r.p.m. records. Baseball is America’s game only in the sense that jazz is America’s music or that Henry James is America’s literature. It is time that we acknowledged this truth by affording baseball the same approbation we reserve for those other neglected cultural treasures.

It might be a hard sell for some fans, but ultimately a world in which the game not only continues but also does so free of commercial pressures would be a merrier one. Among other things, the league could abandon its doomed attempts to attract more viewers by mucking with the rules for extra innings and introducing impure practices like pitch clocks, signal transmitters for catchers and the universal designated hitter. A strict salary cap could be imposed to help ensure competitive parity among teams.

And who knows? Just as tourists who would never think of themselves as interested in art visit the National Gallery or the Metropolitan Museum because doing so seems suitably highbrow, perhaps one day they might go to baseball games out of some inchoate sense that it will be educational and enriching.

Lest there be any doubts, I should make it clear that I stand to gain nothing should my scheme be taken up by the relevant authorities. I argue from a disinterested position of love, in sober recognition of baseball’s undeniable obsolescence.

Go to Wrigley in July is what I would tell the author.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by dio

how can it be dying when these teams are paying their players $$$$$$$ this much

How can it be dying when the cost of buying a team goes up up and up.

[AndrewJerome]

Maniac_73 do you have similar charts for NBA, NFL, NHL?

Not sure what the answer is for shortening games. But I’m also not sure why a 3 hour game is terrible and too long but something like 2 1/2 hours is perfect and would fix everything. Is the extra half hour really a deal breaker? Personally, when I pay to go to a game I prefer it to be 3 hours. Gives me more time to relax etc. I guess I’m getting old

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by AndrewJerome

Maniac_73 do you have similar charts for NBA, NFL, NHL?

Not sure what the answer is for shortening games. But I’m also not sure why a 3 hour game is terrible and too long but something like 2 1/2 hours is perfect and would fix everything. Is the extra half hour really a deal breaker? Personally, when I pay to go to a game I prefer it to be 3 hours. Gives me more time to relax etc. I guess I’m getting old

The problem is the extra 30-60 minutes is commercials, often the same car/bank/insurance/beer commercial I saw two innings ago, a batter stepping out of the box and adjusting his batting gloves or a pitcher taking a stroll around the mound. If the extra time were more baseball action it would be ok.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Many great points made already....in my view MLB is killing itself through piss poor leadership. Manfred is a disgrace to the game in so many ways.

The axing of minor league teams to save a few bucks in the short term was an awful decision for the long term health of the game...minor league are where you see families and regular people, as opposed to many major league stadium where casual fans and families are increasingly priced out (I'm looking at you, Yankee Stadium!)

Bobby you said it all brother...

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

The problem is the extra 30-60 minutes is commercials, often the same car/bank/insurance/beer commercial I saw two innings ago, a batter stepping out of the box and adjusting his batting gloves or a pitcher taking a stroll around the mound. If the extra time were more baseball action it would be ok.

There are many of us who enjoy the little rituals at the plate and/or mound. Those rituals are far from new; players have been doing this for decades.

The deluge of commercials is generally unwanted by the fans, though. Most of us couldn't care less about the drek being served up by Madison Avenue...

[Hankphenom]

It's not the time, but the pacing. There is a natural rhythm to every sport. Baseball is meant to have its dramatic pauses between pitches, but not to distraction. My mother, who loved watching Nats games when the team came back and she wasn't so active anymore, would yell at the the TV. "Throw the ball!" she would holler when the pitcher paraded around the mound after a pitch, then stood there rubbing up the new ball, finally staring in endlessly for the signal, then relaxing and calling the catcher out before starting the process all over again. At that point, Mom knew all too well how short life is. Now I find myself doing the same thing.

[boysblue]

(Was) watching the Yankees - Blue Jays game tonight. The camera person and the announcers spent alot of time in the last inning viewing and discussing some digital contraption that the Yankee's catcher has strapped to his shin pad. Prior to each pitch he stares into the dugout to get the pitch from his manager, then he punches something into this little digital device (which I assume is relayed to his pitcher), then he squats and awaits the pitch. Very slow, and IMO unnecessary. I turned the game off.

[Eric72]

For a sport that’s supposedly dying, it sure was lively this evening; at least from where I sit.

While getting some work done on the computer tonight, I listened to the Phillies game on the radio. For the majority of the game, it was a one-sided affair. Three first-inning runs and a lone marker for insurance had the Mets comfortably in control. However, the Phils broke out with five runs in the eighth and made the game suddenly theirs for the taking. In the ninth, they shut down New York with a 1-2-3 inning for a win which seemed improbable moments before.

I’ve always loved baseball. Tonight was the type of game that keeps me coming back for more.

[Snapolit1]

Baseball is the greatest.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticMLB/s...94863165960194

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Baseball is the greatest.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticMLB/s...94863165960194

HaHa! Yeah, that was great!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Baseball is the greatest.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticMLB/s...94863165960194

I think more people watch parts of games and clips of games then ever before. they just don't have the time or patience to sit through entire games anymore (unless they are making a day of it going to the ballpark/arena)......in most sports I think, not just baseball.

[D. Bergin]

I was posting in another baseball related thread here and started to think about what I really missed about the game...and it's not pace of play related...it's actually the opposite of that.

I miss having a Rickey Henderson type around. I mean, I miss the Willie Wilson's, Omar Moreno's, Vince Coleman's and Tim Raines too, but Rickey was just another level of entertainment.

Rickey, when he wasn't going through his "I'm bored with the game, or my environment, or my teammates" stretches, was wondrous to watch.

A total disruptor. I remember the first few years of his stretch with the Yankees, and if he came up to bat at the beginning of an inning, he could command that entire inning from beginning to end.

Would he hit a homer? Would he work a 12 pitch walk and turn it into a triple (and he worked a lot of walks)? Would he completely take the pitcher out of their game, daring him to pick him off? Would he get picked off, and beat the throw to 2nd base anyways? Would the catcher be so flustered, he'd throw the ball into center field trying to get Rickey out?

A 6 minute Rickey Henderson at bat, with him playing psychological games with the pitcher, getting in and out of the box, and then daring the pitcher/catcher on the base paths, dragging out the at-bats of the guys hitting behind him in the line-up, was far more exciting then any 1-2-3 quick inning.

Edge of your seat stuff. If there's a talent around today, who could do that on a regular basis...we'd never know it.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I was posting in another baseball related thread here and started to think about what I really missed about the game...and it's not pace of play related...it's actually the opposite of that.

I miss having a Rickey Henderson type around. I mean, I miss the Willie Wilson's, Omar Moreno's, Vince Coleman's and Tim Raines too, but Rickey was just another level of entertainment.

Rickey, when he wasn't going through his "I'm bored with the game, or my environment, or my teammates" stretches, was wondrous to watch.

A total disruptor. I remember the first few years of his stretch with the Yankees, and if he came up to bat at the beginning of an inning, he could command that entire inning from beginning to end.

Would he hit a homer? Would he work a 12 pitch walk and turn it into a triple (and he worked a lot of walks)? Would he completely take the pitcher out of their game, daring him to pick him off? Would he get picked off, and beat the throw to 2nd base anyways? Would the catcher be so flustered, he'd throw the ball into center field trying to get Rickey out?

A 6 minute Rickey Henderson at bat, with him playing psychological games with the pitcher, getting in and out of the box, and then daring the pitcher/catcher on the base paths, dragging out the at-bats of the guys hitting behind him in the line-up, was far more exciting then any 1-2-3 quick inning.

Edge of your seat stuff. If there's a talent around today, who could do that on a regular basis...we'd never know it.

Fernando Tatis Jr! He is currently injured, unfortunately.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think more people watch parts of games and clips of games then ever before. they just don't have the time or patience to sit through entire games anymore (unless they are making a day of it going to the ballpark/arena)......in most sports I think, not just baseball.

I think you're right on with that point. In my younger years I would watch every Orioles game from first to last pitch. Now I just watch highlights. Maybe consuming baseball as a whole 9-inning game is dying but catching up on your favorite team or player isn't.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by boysblue

(Was) watching the Yankees - Blue Jays game tonight. The camera person and the announcers spent alot of time in the last inning viewing and discussing some digital contraption that the Yankee's catcher has strapped to his shin pad. Prior to each pitch he stares into the dugout to get the pitch from his manager, then he punches something into this little digital device (which I assume is relayed to his pitcher), then he squats and awaits the pitch. Very slow, and IMO unnecessary. I turned the game off.

That device actually speeds up the game.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I started a thread on the water cooler side about this. I couldn't agree more.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I agree 100% with this!

Steve

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If you don't allow Clayton Kershaw to try and finish what was on pace to be possibly the greatest game ever pitched with only 80 pitches thrown through 7 innings, maybe baseball deserves to die...

I couldn't agree more. He had 13 strikeouts! I am not generally pessimistic about the future of the game, but it is truly a sad day for baseball.

[Steve D]

I Completely agree.

The reason I have always loved watching pitchers like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw.......... is that every time they took the mound, they had a chance to make History!; to elevate that particular game to immortality, instead of it being just another game to slog through.

Managers/Bean Counters have taken excitement, the chance to see something truly special, away from everyone; They've made every game basically the same; unmemorable; just another boring page in the book of a season.

Steve

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I Completely agree.

The reason I have always loved watching pitchers like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw.......... is that every time they took the mound, they had a chance to make History!; to elevate that particular game to immortality, instead of it being just another game to slog through.

Managers/Bean Counters have taken excitement, the chance to see something truly special, away from everyone; They've made every game basically the same; unmemorable; just another boring page in the book of a season.

Steve

I couldn't have said it better myself, Steve. "Bean counters" is the perfect term!

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I was posting in another baseball related thread here and started to think about what I really missed about the game...and it's not pace of play related...it's actually the opposite of that.

I miss having a Rickey Henderson type around. I mean, I miss the Willie Wilson's, Omar Moreno's, Vince Coleman's and Tim Raines too, but Rickey was just another level of entertainment.

Rickey, when he wasn't going through his "I'm bored with the game, or my environment, or my teammates" stretches, was wondrous to watch.

A total disruptor. I remember the first few years of his stretch with the Yankees, and if he came up to bat at the beginning of an inning, he could command that entire inning from beginning to end.

Would he hit a homer? Would he work a 12 pitch walk and turn it into a triple (and he worked a lot of walks)? Would he completely take the pitcher out of their game, daring him to pick him off? Would he get picked off, and beat the throw to 2nd base anyways? Would the catcher be so flustered, he'd throw the ball into center field trying to get Rickey out?

A 6 minute Rickey Henderson at bat, with him playing psychological games with the pitcher, getting in and out of the box, and then daring the pitcher/catcher on the base paths, dragging out the at-bats of the guys hitting behind him in the line-up, was far more exciting then any 1-2-3 quick inning.

Edge of your seat stuff. If there's a talent around today, who could do that on a regular basis...we'd never know it.

Great post and description of him at his prime! Rickey was my favorite player growing up. Nobody steals bases anymore, unfortunately.

[dealme]

Originally Posted by Steve D

I Completely agree.

The reason I have always loved watching pitchers like Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Roger Clemens, Randy Johnson, Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw.......... is that every time they took the mound, they had a chance to make History!; to elevate that particular game to immortality, instead of it being just another game to slog through.

Managers/Bean Counters have taken excitement, the chance to see something truly special, away from everyone; They've made every game basically the same; unmemorable; just another boring page in the book of a season.

Steve

Spot on Steve. And I happen to think that the Dodgers are among the worst when it comes to strictly following a script. I’m probably just getting old and cantankerous (at 43), but the truly special moments in the game (or maybe the opportunity to witness a truly special moment in the game) seem to be much fewer and further between these days.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BobC]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I was posting in another baseball related thread here and started to think about what I really missed about the game...and it's not pace of play related...it's actually the opposite of that.

I miss having a Rickey Henderson type around. I mean, I miss the Willie Wilson's, Omar Moreno's, Vince Coleman's and Tim Raines too, but Rickey was just another level of entertainment.

Rickey, when he wasn't going through his "I'm bored with the game, or my environment, or my teammates" stretches, was wondrous to watch.

A total disruptor. I remember the first few years of his stretch with the Yankees, and if he came up to bat at the beginning of an inning, he could command that entire inning from beginning to end.

Would he hit a homer? Would he work a 12 pitch walk and turn it into a triple (and he worked a lot of walks)? Would he completely take the pitcher out of their game, daring him to pick him off? Would he get picked off, and beat the throw to 2nd base anyways? Would the catcher be so flustered, he'd throw the ball into center field trying to get Rickey out?

A 6 minute Rickey Henderson at bat, with him playing psychological games with the pitcher, getting in and out of the box, and then daring the pitcher/catcher on the base paths, dragging out the at-bats of the guys hitting behind him in the line-up, was far more exciting then any 1-2-3 quick inning.

Edge of your seat stuff. If there's a talent around today, who could do that on a regular basis...we'd never know it.

You need to check out the new Indians (sorry, I can't go with this Guardians crap) rookie OF Steven Kwan then. Through his first five games of his major league career he's batting .526. He went through 116 pitches to start the season before finally being credited with a swing and miss, which is actually BS. The pitch they called a swing and a miss on him was actually a foul tip the catcher was able to hang on to. Didn't know that officially counted as a swing and a miss, but to me, his streak should still be going as he did get a piece of the ball, period! And he had safely reached base 15 times in just his first four games, doing something that hasn't been done by any other MLB player since 1901. And despite going 0-4 in today's game against the Reds, he still managed a bases loaded walk and RBI to give them their initial lead of the game.

You've all heard of the story of a football player prone to fumbling who was then made to carrying a football around with him 24/7 to learn to not drop or lose it, right? Well, this Kwan kid is apparently so obsessed with getting on base that he carries an actual base around with him everywhere, even to the extent of apparently buckling it up in the seat next to him on planes. Sounds like this 24-year-old rookie is just the kind of new, exciting, unique, and interesting player MLB needs to keep the fans. I hope he can keep the performance going. Obviously hitting over .500 for a season will never happen, and I suspect MLB pitchers will eventually find his Achilles heel and pass it around the league. But can you imagine the excitement this kid would generate if he can keep going at anywhere near this level for any kind of prolonged period of time, and possibly be a legit contender for being a .400 average hitter, and as a rookie no less? Baseball would go insane.

Now of course the contrarians among you will want to jump in and immediately say how the shortened Spring training this year has pitchers at a disadvantage so far, to which I also call BS. These are grown men and MLB level pitchers; they should have been keeping themselves in pitching shape all along. And this goes both ways as well. Batters have also gone through a shortened Spring training in preparing to go up against MLB level pitching. And in this rookie's case, he's never consistently faced MLB level pitching before, so if anyone would be adversely affected by a shortened Spring training, you would expect it to be someone like this Kwan kid.

And by the way, this Kwan kid has done this all on the road. The Tribe's home opener isn't till this Friday. And if he follows the typical player mode of usually performing better at home........well, I'll just leave it at that.

[maniac_73]

Pulling Kershaw in the middle of a perfect game is another way that baseball isn’t doing itself any favours. Ridiculous


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[boysblue]

That device actually speeds up the game.

---------------------------------

Can you explain please?