Jacob deGrom most Ks in first 200 games

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Met's Replace Degrom with Verlander 2 years $86 Million plus a potential vesting for a 3rd.
A lot for an older player but should be worth it and the risk is less with a short term deal

they should wait 40 games or so then break in verlander....why make him start all year if can make playoffs without him in begging .alonso is a beast...

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

they should wait 40 games or so then break in verlander....why make him start all year if can make playoffs without him in begging .alonso is a beast...

Interesting thought.
Looking forward to watching him and Alonso is definitely a beast

[mrreality68]

WOW

I hope this is not a sign for the Rangers but

Jason's debut is delayed with a soreness

https://nypost.com/2023/02/15/jacob-...rangers-debut/

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

WOW

I hope this is not a sign for the Rangers but

Jason's debut is delayed with a soreness

https://nypost.com/2023/02/15/jacob-...rangers-debut/

As a Mets fan, this is like the sun coming up

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

As a Mets fan, this is like the sun coming up

I hope this is a blip and I hope he is healthy to pitch for them and hope he does well.
Would love him in the HOF some day and with a Mets Cap on

But this is what is so frustrating with him as a fan he is so amazingly talented when on the field pitching but injury bug the last 3 years keeps him off the mound to much and to often.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I hope this is a blip and I hope he is healthy to pitch for them and hope he does well.
Would love him in the HOF some day and with a Mets Cap on

But this is what is so frustrating with him as a fan he is so amazingly talented when on the field pitching but injury bug the last 3 years keeps him off the mound to much and to often.

Thats what makes Nolan Ryan so special to me....that he was a fireballer and played for so long.....Clemens as well but he has other issues..

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

As a Mets fan, this is like the sun coming up

I don't understand why fans have hatred for guys who leave. Have you ever moved jobs? I have. Sometimes it's for more money, sometimes it's just for a change, sometimes for family or other reasons. These guys have zero loyalty or affinity for any of these teams. I loved Degrom when he was great, and he moved on, and, well so do my ex wife. Best of luck against everyone except us. This whole narative that DeGrom never properly thanked Mets fans publicly on his departure is ridiculous.

It's like Jerry Seinfeld says, being a sport fan is really just being a fan of laundry. We loved that guy until he leaves. Then we hate him. And we hated that guy, but, wow now he's on our team, and now we love him. It's all pretty ridiculous on some level. I have no doubt if Clemens had become a Met a few years after the Piazza bat throwing situation people would have loved him. Ditto Chase Utley.

Met fans bad mouth Matt Harvey today. Over what? Being a generally asshole? Well we knew that when he was on the team didn't we. But then he was our asshole. Guy was a warrior.

Fans love building guys up and then shitting on them.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't understand why fans have hatred for guys who leave. Have you ever moved jobs? I have. Sometimes it's for more money, sometimes it's just for a change, sometimes for family or other reasons. These guys have zero loyalty or affinity for any of these teams. I loved Degrom when he was great, and he moved on, and, well so do my ex wife. Best of luck against everyone except us. This whole narative that DeGrom never properly thanked Mets fans publicly on his departure is ridiculous.

It's like Jerry Seinfeld says, being a sport fan is really just being a fan of laundry. We loved that guy until he leaves. Then we hate him. And we hated that guy, but, wow now he's on our team, and now we love him. It's all pretty ridiculous on some level. I have no doubt if Clemens had become a Met a few years after the Piazza bat throwing situation people would have loved him. Ditto Chase Utley.

Met fans bad mouth Matt Harvey today. Over what? Being a generally asshole? Well we knew that when he was on the team didn't we. But then he was our asshole. Guy was a warrior.

Fans love building guys up and then shitting on them.

I generally root for guys that move on from my teams. Especially if they were homegrown, or it seems like they got the shaft or were taken for granted when they were let go, traded, not signed, etc....

My favorite example is Ron Francis. Whalers were always a middling franchise when they were in Hartford. They thought Francis was washed up and injury prone at 27 years old. Traded him and Ulfie Samuelsson for a can of corn and a box of cereal.

I watched from afar as Francis got to play on the same line as Mario Lemieux, and Ulfie was still a solid defenseman, along with a top enforcer for Pittsburgh, while Hartford drifted to the bottom of the standings for the foreseeable future.

Francis eventually made his way back, to the Carolina version of the Whalers and better times, but by then I had lost interest.

Francis eventually became the #2 assist guy and #5 points guy of All-Time while also establishing himself as one of the most durable Centers of All-Time. Not bad for a washed up, injury prone throwaway.

My 2nd favorite was Dave Winfield becoming a Playoff and World Series hero for Toronto in 1992, after George Steinbrenner spent 10 years sh*tting all over him for not being Reggie Jackson in 1981.

I also gotta thank Winfield for getting Georgie Boy suspended eventually, and creating a window for the Yankees "Core 5" (yes I'll call them that), to be nurtured in the farm system for a bit, instead of getting traded for old has beens and coulda beens.

The modern day revisionist hero worship of Steinbrenner these days from rabid dude-bro Yankee fans who don't remember what a shitheel George was from 1979 on, annoys me to no end.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't understand why fans have hatred for guys who leave. Have you ever moved jobs? I have. Sometimes it's for more money, sometimes it's just for a change, sometimes for family or other reasons. These guys have zero loyalty or affinity for any of these teams. I loved Degrom when he was great, and he moved on, and, well so do my ex wife. Best of luck against everyone except us. This whole narative that DeGrom never properly thanked Mets fans publicly on his departure is ridiculous.

It's like Jerry Seinfeld says, being a sport fan is really just being a fan of laundry. We loved that guy until he leaves. Then we hate him. And we hated that guy, but, wow now he's on our team, and now we love him. It's all pretty ridiculous on some level. I have no doubt if Clemens had become a Met a few years after the Piazza bat throwing situation people would have loved him. Ditto Chase Utley.

Met fans bad mouth Matt Harvey today. Over what? Being a generally asshole? Well we knew that when he was on the team didn't we. But then he was our asshole. Guy was a warrior.

Fans love building guys up and then shitting on them.

Steve, maybe my comment came off the wrong way - I'm a fan of DeGrom and I wish him well (even though I think it's kind of funny that, like Ohtani, he chose to go to a not-so-great team).

I was more expecting what usually happens when players leave the org - they go on to be better. (Like Scott Kazmir) I suppose that could still happen but my intended meaning was more along the lines of "yep, he's still the same old DeGrom".

[Snapolit1]

I hear you. If I misunderstood your sentiments, that's on me and apology for it.

Maybe I spend too much time on Mets Twitter. Seems like legions of Met fans are just wishing the worst for DeGrom.

There are a lot of people in the world I utterly despise, but a former player for my team isn't one of them.


QUOTE=BobbyStrawberry;2315080]Steve, maybe my comment came off the wrong way - I'm a fan of DeGrom and I wish him well (even though I think it's kind of funny that, like Ohtani, he chose to go to a not-so-great team).

I was more expecting what usually happens when players leave the org - they go on to be better. (Like Scott Kazmir) I suppose that could still happen but my intended meaning was more along the lines of "yep, he's still the same old DeGrom".[/QUOTE]

[packs]

Fans don't like to see players leave for the same reason they don't cheer for other teams.

Yankees fans love seeing Mattingly at the stadium. They could care less about Robinson Cano. Shouldn't it be that way?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

Fans don't like to see players leave for the same reason they don't cheer for other teams.

Yankees fans love seeing Mattingly at the stadium. They could care less about Robinson Cano. Shouldn't it be that way?

Not cheering for a guy is different that actively despising him and hoping something shitty happens to him.

[packs]

That's typically an irrational reaction to most things in life. I don't feel as though the average Mets fan wants Jacob deGrom to suffer on a personal level.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I hear you. If I misunderstood your sentiments, that's on me and apology for it.

Maybe I spend too much time on Mets Twitter. Seems like legions of Met fans are just wishing the worst for DeGrom.

There are a lot of people in the world I utterly despise, but a former player for my team isn't one of them.

No worries - yeah I agree. I've got some some of his cards and gear and I didn't burn any of it when he left!

[mrreality68]

I agreed with most of the others
1. I do not believe we should disparage some one unless they deserve it. He does not deserve it. He has a right to get the most money possible that someone is willing to pay and it was Texas.
2. A a Met he was a class act and he was a fantastic pitcher when Healthy. Sadly last few years he was not consistently healthy.
3. I hope he does well with Texas (As long as he does not hurt my Team
4. I hope he stays healthy long enough to get into the HOF because he is trending that way
5. Wish the Mets still had him

[cgjackson222]

deGrom looking good so far, despite limited playing time (you could say that about the last 4 years though).

He is averaging an absurd 14.5 Ks/9 Innings, which would be the highest ever. He is leading the league in strikeouts at 43, even though he has pitched only 26.2 innings. And with only 3 walks, his strikeout to walk ratio is an insane 14.33 (the highest single season ever is 11.62).

His WHIP is .79 which would be in the top 6 single seasons ever including Negro Leagues.

He is leading the league in Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) with 1.42, which would also be in the top 6 single seasons ever including Negro Leagues.

And the Rangers are in 1st place with 2 less losses than the Mets. Who knows if he will stay healthy, but the Mets could really use him right now with Verlander and Scherzer out. They are saying Verlander could be back as early as their trip to Detroit in the first week of May though, and Scherzer's suspension will be overy by then too. Hopefully deGrom, Scherzer and Verlander all find a way to play significant time this year so we can see these generational pitchers pitch.

[1952boyntoncollector]

with the extra playoff spots..you have a margin of error and still make it to the playoffs with your ace..


the measurement is in the playoff games to clinch or to avoid elimination..

[Peter_Spaeth]

He's at it again. 43K, 3BB.

[G1911]

Let's see if he can pitch 162 innings for the 5th time of his career.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

Let's see if he can pitch 162 innings for the 5th time of his career.

doesnt matter..as long as he can pitch around 50 innings in the playoffs...

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

doesnt matter..as long as he can pitch around 50 innings in the playoffs...

The Texas Rangers were 68 - 94 in their 4th place AL West finish a year ago.
If deGrom can help them reach the playoffs it would be a pretty big deal.

Winning some games in the playoffs would be icing on the cake.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

doesnt matter..as long as he can pitch around 50 innings in the playoffs...

With that .420 winning percentage last year I'm failing to see how the Rangers are such a shoe in they don't need DeGrom before the playoffs.

[packs]

I’m pretty sure he’s trying to make some hyperbolic point about pitchers only needing to be good in the playoffs but I’m not sure where he’s going with it. Why wouldn’t you want your big money pitcher to be good in the playoffs? And why would a team who isn’t a contender at all sign a big money pitcher with 50 innings they’re unlikely to play in mind?

[mrreality68]

We all agree Degrom is a great pitcher when healthy and on the mound.

Between spring training and thru the first 20 games he has had several Health scares. Luckily minor but when Healthy he is one of the best.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by G1911

With that .420 winning percentage last year I'm failing to see how the Rangers are such a shoe in they don't need DeGrom before the playoffs.

may only need to be close to .500 to make playoffs....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I’m pretty sure he’s trying to make some hyperbolic point about pitchers only needing to be good in the playoffs but I’m not sure where he’s going with it. Why wouldn’t you want your big money pitcher to be good in the playoffs? And why would a team who isn’t a contender at all sign a big money pitcher with 50 innings they’re unlikely to play in mind?

Well Yu Darvish hasnt done much in the playoff games...but been pitched a lot last year

rather have a guy pitch Ohtani type innings for the season and then pitch 50 in playoffs...then someone dominate regular season then lose first playoff series

the point is ...years ago there were only a few playoff teams...now you can have a large margin of error to still get into the playoffs.....unlike many sports..one dominate player, the pitcher can give you a very high chance on his own to win you that key playoff game to advance on or to win a series etc...

[G1911]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

may only need to be close to .500 to make playoffs....

I am not seeing why one would assume a team that was a .420 club last year is such a shoe in for the playoffs that they don’t need DeGrom during the regular season. Bottom seed teams sub .500 that manage to get in are on the very border and need players to actually play.

[D. Bergin]

I think we're missing the elephant in the room here. Expanded Playoffs or not, who on earth pitches 50 innings in the playoffs nowadays, let alone Degrom?

He'd need almost 10 starts, and they sure as hell aren't going to throw somebody like him out there on short rest.

[mrreality68]

agreed the likely hood of any pitcher pitching that many innings is most likely not going to happen.
For Degrom it most likely would not happen because they would even if Texas made the playoffs they would want to keep Degrom healthy thru out and would be load managing him

[mrreality68]

Sadly Degrom did not last a month before going on the DL

They put him on the 15 day. Hopefully it is not longer.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I believe he was injured to start the season too. Such an amazing talent but he just can't seem to stay healthy.

[G1911]

Good thing they don't need him to pitch until the playoffs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I believe he was injured to start the season too. Such an amazing talent but he just can't seem to stay healthy.

It's just uncanny how delicate he is.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I believe he was injured to start the season too. Such an amazing talent but he just can't seem to stay healthy.

He was injured several times since the start of spring training

[clydepepper]

While the DL has been changed to the IL - so, as not to offend...perhaps, in his case, it should remain the D (eGrom) List.

He will never get to the Hall unless he can find a way to stay healthy.

[mrreality68]

Degrom just moved to the 60 Day IL and has not pitched since April 28th.
Feel sorry for him great when healthy but has not pitched more then 15 games in last 4 years approx.
Also feel bad for Texas paid all that money and waiting to get their ace. Although they are having a really good season so far

[mrreality68]

Sad update

Degrom to have Tommy John surgery and will be out rest of this year and most of next year potentially

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Sad update

Degrom to have Tommy John surgery and will be out rest of this year and most of next year potentially

Wow, so he could be 36 when he comes back. Rangers knew the risks but obviously not what they were hoping for when they signed him.

[packs]

Aside from Darvish has Texas managed to sign a recent ace that was actually an ace? Darvish was a decade ago already.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If he was still in the running for the Hall, by whatever slender thread, that's all over now. Are his mechanics that bad? There has to be some reason he has been so unbelievably prone to injury.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If he was still in the running for the Hall, by whatever slender thread, that's all over now. Are his mechanics that bad? There has to be some reason he has been so unbelievably prone to injury.

He was already behind the times for the HOF but this wipes out this year and most of another. His battle will be really uphill considering his age and durability

It is a shame

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

He was already behind the times for the HOF but this wipes out this year and most of another. His battle will be really uphill considering his age and durability

It is a shame

He'll come back in late 2024, pitch two shutouts, and go back to the DL with something else.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by G1911

Let's see if he can pitch 162 innings for the 5th time of his career.

The answer quickly turned to a clear "No". Shock of the year.

$185,000,000 contract for a 35 year old pitcher who can't pitch more than a few games a year, and they didn't get insurance on the contract. Brilliant move.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

The answer quickly turned to a clear "No". Shock of the year.

$185,000,000 contract for a 35 year old pitcher who can't pitch more than a few games a year, and they didn't get insurance on the contract. Brilliant move.

At that price with his history foolish to not put a minimum innings pitched clause in there.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by G1911

The answer quickly turned to a clear "No". Shock of the year.

$185,000,000 contract for a 35 year old pitcher who can't pitch more than a few games a year, and they didn't get insurance on the contract. Brilliant move.

they might have insurance but i am not sure if they do or not
also if they could it was probably very expensive with Degroms health history and I am not sure if he was even insurable regardless Texas knew what they were walking into and they took a gamble and sadly for the first 2 years of that contract(this year and next year) it looks like a total loss.

And it is a shame since they are having such a good year so far

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

they might have insurance but i am not sure if they do or not
also if they could it was probably very expensive with Degroms health history and I am not sure if he was even insurable regardless Texas knew what they were walking into and they took a gamble and sadly for the first 2 years of that contract(this year and next year) it looks like a total loss.

And it is a shame since they are having such a good year so far

According to Fansided, the Rangers did not insure deGrom's contract but there is a clause that if he needed TJ surgery in 2023 or 2026, the Rangers get a team option year added for 2028. Its a strange option since deGrom will be 40.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jim65

According to Fansided, the Rangers did not insure deGrom's contract but there is a clause that if he needed TJ surgery in 2023 or 2026, the Rangers get a team option year added for 2028. Its a strange option since deGrom will be 40.

wow thanks for the info

and wow that is funny that if he had Tommy John Surgery they would want the option at that age and with that Heath history.

I just hope he recovers and comes back strong.

Such an amazing pitcher when healthy

[Peter_Spaeth]

Given his history and age, I would charge a HUGE premium to insure that contract.

[clydepepper]

deGrom's story has been compared to Stephen Strasburg's.

But, at least deGrom has a chance to come back, albeit small.
Strasburg's nerve damage keeps him from having a normal active life.

On Pardon-the-Interruption last night, Michael Willbon reminded us all that the pitching motion is unnatural and is why so many pitchers endure so much 'down time' with injuries associated with their deliveries.

It was enjoyable to watch Strasburg and deGrom when they dominated, but, alas, their time is most probably past.


.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

deGrom's story has been compared to Stephen Strasburg's.

But, at least deGrom has a chance to come back, albeit small.
Strasburg's nerve damage keeps him from having a normal active life.

On Pardon-the-Interruption last night, Michael Willbon reminded us all that the pitching motion is unnatural and is why so many pitchers endure so much 'down time' with injuries associated with their deliveries.

It was enjoyable to watch Strasburg and deGrom when they dominated, but, alas, their time is most probably past.


.

I'm not sure if the motion is itself unnatural or that many pitchers don't have good mechanics or aren't doing the proper training. Nolan Ryan looked awfully natural to me, how often was he hurt?