April 13, the day autographs stand still !!!!

[travrosty]

Mark your calendars folks, April 13th is now the day autographs stand still !!!!

For the first time I can remember, an authentication team, JSA is to have 4 different authentication teams out at 4 different locations countrywide authenticating your autographs.

Yes, you heard that right, if diluting an authentication team into 2 parts is bad enough, imagine 4!!!

You can Have James Spence at one location, junior the 3rd at another, larry at another and Wade at another, or whoever sweeps their floors at night at another!!!

so bring in your best autographs and make sure the A team, no make that B team, no make that C team, no make that D team gets a good look at your autograph.

They will be in Boston, Houston, Staten Island, NY, and Lakewood, CO all in the same day, so get your tickets now!!!! Get the 4th best guy at JSA to look at your autographs, but hurry, time is running out!

[GrayGhost]

Wow sir. do you ever get cited for sending threatening letters to them? Talk bout an ax to grind. You've ground the head right off the Ax

[shelly]

Talk about part 1 through 1000. If any of you think that Chris has taken up space why dont you say the same to him?
Oh wait you guys have said that over and over again.

[packs]

This sub-forum started out as my favorite part of the Board but it has quickly become unreadable.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Wow sir. do you ever get cited for sending threatening letters to them? Talk bout an ax to grind. You've ground the head right off the Ax

lol

[chaddurbin]

imo most dealers out there that have JSA look at their items would much rather have the F team so the passing rate will be higher?

[Deertick]

On a completely unrelated topic, is O.C.D. terminal?

[RichardSimon]

Do you get a discount for having to use the B,C or D team?
After all you are not getting Jimmy for your money if you use those others.

[packs]

I just don't understand these posts and to be honest its really annoying to keep seeing them. What is your end game? What do you hope to accomplish? Is it that you want JSA and PSA to go out of business? Then what? You want collectors to submit items only to authenticators you've hand picked? Doesn't that create the same conflict of interest you're rallying against? Even with authenticators you've decided are good at what they do, won't there still be mistakes? Won't the business get too big for them to personally oversee every item? What then? Are you going to launch similar attacks on them in an attempt to drive them out of business? Then what?


Enough already. I can't be the only who gets frustrated with these posts.

[jgmp123]

I just avoid the majority of posts here anymore...

[packs]

I just can't stand it anymore. How do you perceive yourself and and what you're doing, and how do you perceive the way other people feel about your posts?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

I just can't stand it anymore. How do you perceive yourself and and what you're doing, and how do you perceive the way other people feel about your posts?

Narcissists don't care what others think or how they feel. You aren't the only one that gets tired of it. I am just glad I don't collect autographs and have to put up with this. I have to be honest, I wouldn't. We might get to the point where I have almost never gotten, and that is to squelch it. No forum on this board should be completely taken over by one person and make it unbearable for everyone else. Just my opinion.

[prewarsports]

I am NOT an authentication guys as I certify my own items and guarantee them for life. However, when I have an item that needs to have certification beyond what I already know (that its real) I send things to Jimmy Spence maybe 4-5 times a year. While I see the point that having authenticators at different locations might be problematic, they do all have computers with internet access so if there is a question on an autograph at one location, I think it would be ignorant to think they are not sending scans back and forth and sharing their opinions. Now of course you would want the most educated person to have it in hand, but we on the forum use scans all the time to judge a signature and as long as someone is looking at the item in person and they are communicating among themselves and sharing scans I really dont see that much of a problem with it. I am not condoning it, just dont really see the big issue with it. Just my opinion.

Rhys Yeakley

[packs]

I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't care how experienced anyone is in anything. If they can't be around people who share their passion without alienating them, then who CAN they be around? Like I said I'm fed up and I'm not trying to insult anyone. I just can't believe that I can't enjoy an autograph forum amongst the most experienced collectors in the country because one guy can't help himself. It's beyond frustrating.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Deertick

On a completely unrelated topic, is O.C.D. terminal?

Apparently not, though it does seem to lead to crippling paranoia.

[packs]

n/m

[Mr. Zipper]

If I could shed a little light for those who care about accuracy.

It is my understanding that JSA does not issue LOAs on the spot for high value/risk items, which require a LOA as no lower level of service is available. The item is examined on-site to ensure it is a live signature, date the medium, it is photographed and then it is returned to the owner.

Later, a number of JSA authenticators and consultants review the item to determine authenticity. The submitter receives his or her LOA or rejection letter in the mail a week or two later.

To my knowledge, Jimmy and the senior authenticators all review high value items. So the notion that someone can slide a Babe Ruth by JSA with only one person seeing it at an on-site visit is a fallacy.

Note that this is my impression of how it works and I am not officially speaking for JSA.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't care how experienced anyone is in anything. If they can't be around people who share their passion without alienating them, then who CAN they be around? Like I said I'm fed up and I'm not trying to insult anyone. I just can't believe that I can't enjoy an autograph forum amongst the most experienced collectors in the country because one guy can't help himself. It's beyond frustrating.

+1. Well said.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by canjond

+1. Well said.

So much hate it's tiresome....poster has proved to be a vile human being time and time again and the King of the Analogy....I have an idea? If you think it's so bad, why don't you get a life and start your own business instead of the constant bitching. That is the American way and how my friends & I have found success in our lives. Let's see you do better!

You are a broken record and you have lost all credibility on yet another site. Go back to the slanderous blog that you refuse to denounce and spew your hate over there where no one can respond to it.

As much as agree with you on many points...You have proven to be an unfeeling jerk. If you don't like something, change it. Do something to rival it. Start it up "The greatest authenticator in the world" and I'm sure it will go real far. NOT.

Not denouncing what was said about Chris Williams on your friends blog is simply disgusting. You may not know this, but YOU are part of the problem. IMHO, You cannot affect change. You are too much of an ass. You should shave your head and start a rock pile. You are a loser and it's why you have not risen to do squat in your life. You have a personality disorder and you may want to check into it. Blah blah blah analogy boy.

[GrayGhost]

I LOVE CHINESE FOOD.

Did I derail away from this vile thread?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

Narcissists don't care what others think or how they feel. You aren't the only one that gets tired of it. I am just glad I don't collect autographs and have to put up with this. I have to be honest, I wouldn't. We might get to the point where I have almost never gotten, and that is to squelch it. No forum on this board should be completely taken over by one person and make it unbearable for everyone else. Just my opinion.

I agree and would add that we are at that point already. I know several autograph collectors who are members here and who simply ignore the forum because of the invective-laden threads and personal insults.

[MooseDog]

For what it's worth, there is a function built into the Forum software here that allows anyone to "hide" postings by any other member. This function is available on nearly every platform like this and is commonly referred to as a "Bozo Filter".

If you are logged in, to to "User CP" on the dark menu bar below the forums listings. Click there, and on the next screen about 1/2 way down the menu on the left is "Edit Ignore List". You can put the screen name of anyone you want to ignore (one at a time), click Save Changes", and you won't have to be tempted to read what you don't want to....

You'll still see when someone on your Ignore List has posted something, but there won't be any of the posting visible unless you want to un-ignore them.

Before and After.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I agree and would add that we are at that point already. I know several autograph collectors who are members here and who simply ignore the forum because of the invective-laden threads and personal insults.

But I can't believe he is the ONLY one causing any ruckus over here? I admit I don't read every post and thread on this side so maybe I don't know....And those that leave a place because of a bad apple or two usually have thinner skin than is needed in the first place. Almost every time someone tells me "it's either him or me".....I open the door so they can leave, and let them know they are welcome back at any time.

[Big Dave]

+1

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

+1

i agree, otherwise it is just approved, popular speech only. there are plenty of countries who have that requirement, countries i would prefer not to live.

[shelly]

This is not in defence of Travis. This is in defence of everyone on this site.

Definition of FORUM

1
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2
: a judicial body or assembly : court
3
a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion
b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

That is why this site is called a Forum. Love it or do not read it up to you

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I agree and would add that we are at that point already. I know several autograph collectors who are members here and who simply ignore the forum because of the invective-laden threads and personal insults.

Then, it is there loss. Yes there are times when things get out of hand but just look how many more times people have helped others with there questions.
I find that is a very poor excuse for not comeing on here.

[toybulldog]

I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't care how experienced anyone is in anything. If they can't be around people who share their passion without alienating them, then who CAN they be around? Like I said I'm fed up and I'm not trying to insult anyone. I just can't believe that I can't enjoy an autograph forum amongst the most experienced collectors in the country because one guy can't help himself. It's beyond frustrating.

Problem solved, Moosedog in post #22 has come up with the perfect solution for you or anyone else who doesn't care for Travis' comments....

For what it's worth, there is a function built into the Forum software here that allows anyone to "hide" postings by any other member. This function is available on nearly every platform like this and is commonly referred to as a "Bozo Filter".

If you are logged in, to to "User CP" on the dark menu bar below the forums listings. Click there, and on the next screen about 1/2 way down the menu on the left is "Edit Ignore List". You can put the screen name of anyone you want to ignore (one at a time), click Save Changes", and you won't have to be tempted to read what you don't want to....

You'll still see when someone on your Ignore List has posted something, but there won't be any of the posting visible unless you want to un-ignore them.

However something tells me that most or all will not use this function and continue to pressure Leon the moderator into giving him the heave-ho. "Travis is ruining it for everyone" seems like one big smokescreen to me with an ulterior motive. Personally I never get tired of reading about or exposing the TPA corruption in this hobby and could do so 24/7. Looking forward to more posts like this in the future

[packs]

If I went on the card side and posted day after day a thousand posts about how annoyed I am that X card got X grade people would be telling me to give it a rest too. It would never play over there. Why should it be different over here.

I hear you about the ignore feature. But can't we express how these kinds of posts and the excessive number of them bother us too? It's not that I have thin skin. I'm just looking to enjoy the Board and feel educated by posts. Right now I feel like every time I visit this sub-forum I'm Charlie Brown and some trumpet is blowing in my ear.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by fuddjcal

so much hate it's tiresome....poster has proved to be a vile human being time and time again and the king of the analogy....i have an idea? If you think it's so bad, why don't you get a life and start your own business instead of the constant bitching. That is the american way and how my friends & i have found success in our lives. Let's see you do better!

You are a broken record and you have lost all credibility on yet another site. Go back to the slanderous blog that you refuse to denounce and spew your hate over there where no one can respond to it.

As much as agree with you on many points...you have proven to be an unfeeling jerk. If you don't like something, change it. Do something to rival it. Start it up "the greatest authenticator in the world" and i'm sure it will go real far. Not.

Not denouncing what was said about chris williams on your friends blog is simply disgusting. You may not know this, but you are part of the problem. Imho, you cannot affect change. You are too much of an ass. You should shave your head and start a rock pile. You are a loser and it's why you have not risen to do squat in your life. You have a personality disorder and you may want to check into it. Blah blah blah analogy boy.

yup!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

If I went on the card side and posted day after about how annoyed I am that X card got X grade people would be telling me to give it a rest too. And they would be in the right to do so. Add in some personal attacks on the people behind the companies. It would never play over there. Why should it be different over here.

I hear you about the ignore feature. But can't we express how these kinds of psot bother us too? It's not that I have thin skin. I'm just looking to enjoy the Board and feel educated by posts. Right now I feel like I'm being lectured day in day out.

It is a fine line about moderating. It's kind of like porn . I can't really define it but I know when something needs to be done about it. My MO has always been to have as open of a forum as possible as long as folks put their name by their posts. It will continue that way too. I will politely ask Travis (hi Travis) to tone it down a bit.....and if it gets out of hand I will PM him to chat about it. As far as outing bad things in the hobby, that is what the board is partly for. I hope it continues.

[Sean1125]

So just because they have more than one 'team' it means one is better or worse than the other for sure? I know it is possible but shouldn't anyone authenticating be on the same level? How can you be sure some are worse than others? I would expect if you had the business to have four 'teams' each 'team' is still someone who could authenticate had the item been sent directly to JSA.

Edit after reading Leon's post:
I agree, there is good/bad/ugly and if you want to stay away from bad and ugly there are certain links you shouldn't click, or you should simply stop reading and move along. I personally like to see some of the darker things that go on in the hobby, it brings light to things I normally would never have known including forgeries and fakes.... There is a point where it becomes too much and is simply bashing though.

[keithsky]

I think the biggest problem with people complaining about PSA or JSA is that those companies need to come on here and answer some of the peoples questions or comments. They choose to remain silent on here and I think if they had someone from each comapny take questions or complaints I think people would be satified or at least somewhat. They choose to not respond to anybodys comments or come on here and it just fuels the fire. At least when people a few months ago complained about Hertitage Auction they at least had the balls to respond to peoples comments which to me was great. But JSA and PSA seem like they don't want to waste there time coming on here or there afraid to take the heat. It would ease all the blasting that Travis and others who can't stand these companies give to them and maybe shed some light on some of the TPA practices

[toybulldog]

If I went on the card side and posted day after about how annoyed I am that X card got X grade people would be telling me to give it a rest too. And they would be in the right to do so. Add in some personal attacks on the people behind the companies. It would never play over there. Why should it be different over here.

Then they should use the bozo filter on you, problem solved once again.

As far as attacks on the people behind the companies, the people behind the companies make their own attacks on other peoples autographs on a daily basis and do so with no evidence, proof or explanation while hiding behind their curtain. If someone chooses to attack back in the open in a forum with evidence, proof and explanation then that is something they can blame on themselves.

Seems like some of the boxing guys aren't one to fall into place and feed into all the bullsh*t like so many others. Tone it down or turn it up? I choose the latter.

[cubsfan-budman]

I really don't understand why Travis isn't one of the more respected guys on this board. He has a somewhat acidic tone, but in essence, he's correct in his indictments.

I mean, only a couple threads from here, MANY Net45'ers were jumping on a guy for leveraging the ABCs to attempt to sell a (mostly) outed fake.

I think two things are happening here:

1. People are turned off by Travis' tone and persistence
2. People actually enjoy his posts because they continue to not ignore him

[Exhibitman]

There is a difference between presenting arguments over specific facts--like the bad Marciano glove recently outed here--and simply attacking everything about TPAs regardless of whether there is any ascertainable issue with any specific item. If you listen to Travis [something I will not do any longer given the "ignore" function--thanks for the heads up on that one], everything a TPA ever does is wrong and everything they touch is tainted. That is simply not accurate or fair, and it is tedious, negative and unpleasant to read through. Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground.

I know nothing I am saying here is going to change things; I don't expect it to. I merely want to voice my view that these continual screeds against TPAs make this section of the board unpleasant to read. It is damaging to the community and it turns this section of the board into small echo chamber of narrow views. I know that every time I read one, I lose interest in the forum. That doesn't make me a person who is not interested in authenticity or in righting errors made by TPAs, BTW, just a person who prefers not to spend his leisure time in an indiscriminately negative, hostile environment.

OK, sharing time is over, back to bashing JSA, PSA and whoever else.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta.

There is a difference with their "ad hoc" screwups, which you can point out as they do them and their "strategic" screwups which you can point out at will.

They are different things.

The strategic screwups lead to the adhoc ones. In a sense, if you only point out the screwups as they happen, you're really doing nothing to solve anything.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground

C'mon, Adam! You think that's a vendetta? You don't think that perhaps--just perhaps--that woman was justified?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There is a difference between presenting arguments over specific facts--like the bad Marciano glove recently outed here--and simply attacking everything about TPAs regardless of whether there is any ascertainable issue with any specific item. If you listen to Travis [something I will not do any longer given the "ignore" function--thanks for the heads up on that one], everything a TPA ever does is wrong and everything they touch is tainted. That is simply not accurate or fair, and it is tedious, negative and unpleasant to read through. Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground.

I know nothing I am saying here is going to change things; I don't expect it to. I merely want to voice my view that these continual screeds against TPAs make this section of the board unpleasant to read. It is damaging to the community and it turns this section of the board into small echo chamber of narrow views. I know that every time I read one, I lose interest in the forum. That doesn't make me a person who is not interested in authenticity or in righting errors made by TPAs, BTW, just a person who prefers not to spend his leisure time in an indiscriminately negative, hostile environment.

OK, sharing time is over, back to bashing JSA, PSA and whoever else.

Yes! Thank you for typing out most of what I wanted to say.

I would only add that there can be a respectful tone when a collector who is new to the board mentions using an alphabet. I think that those collectors are sometimes spoken down to and even belittled. You cannot educate people that way, you can only alienate them away from a mostly excellent community that exists here.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I really don't understand why Travis isn't one of the more respected guys on this board. He has a somewhat acidic tone, but in essence, he's correct in his indictments.

I mean, only a couple threads from here, MANY Net45'ers were jumping on a guy for leveraging the ABCs to attempt to sell a (mostly) outed fake.

I think two things are happening here:

1. People are turned off by Travis' tone and persistence
2. People actually enjoy his posts because they continue to not ignore him

It's not for what he posts about PSA & JSA...those things are warranted, helpful, mostly true and appreciated by most. I like that he is passionate about it. It just chafes my fat fanny that he can endorse with his silence and weak analogies an obvious smear campaign on a a ONE WAY BASHING website about another contributor here with a different viewpoint. It's grotesque and weak.

We fight forgeries here. That's what we do...All kinds of forgeries. Blinders Boy and his pals have taken it to another level and it's just very disheartening for the contributors here, IMHO.

[packs]

Originally Posted by toybulldog

Then they should use the bozo filter on you, problem solved once again.

As far as attacks on the people behind the companies, the people behind the companies make their own attacks on other peoples autographs on a daily basis and do so with no evidence, proof or explanation while hiding behind their curtain. If someone chooses to attack back in the open in a forum with evidence, proof and explanation then that is something they can blame on themselves.

Seems like some of the boxing guys aren't one to fall into place and feed into all the bullsh*t like so many others. Tone it down or turn it up? I choose the latter.

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by packs

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. When does someone have a right to complain about another person's behavior? Is the answer always to just ignore it? Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it? Reading your posts it seems like you're suggesting the people complaining are the only ones with a problem and they should be quiet about it.

More or less what I was contemplating how to say, but if I may expand upon it:

I don't think it's so much that people have a problem with what Travis posts. It's clear that he has an agenda, and if you refresh the screen a couple of times, he has probably posted again explaining his agenda with another string of analogies. The thing that ticks me and many others off is the constant thrusting of that agenda/rant into every single topic he stumbles into, whether his post is actually related to the discussion at hand or not. And then when anyone suggests, "Hey, chill, nobody's talking about TPA's here," rather than accepting the suggestion that what he just posted is out of place in this thread and should be taken elsewhere or to a new thread, he takes it as a sign that everyone's trying to shut him up because he's onto something big or they feel threatened by him or they have an agenda that conflicts with his own, etc., and starts typing all the more fervently. Maybe I've overlooked it, but I can't recall a single time where someone has said, "Hey, that's out of place here, take it to another thread," and Travis has done so. It's like I tell my boys, "When we tell you to be quiet, it's because the adults are having a conversation, not because we don't like kids." Travis has been asked repeatedly to take his TPA-bashing rants to either a new thread or at least to other threads already discussing TPA's, and he consistently insists on ignoring the requests and continues thrusting his agenda into the same unrelated conversations.

Bottom line for me is, while I wouldn't advocate booting Travis from the board, I do wish there was a way to boot him from individual threads when he busts in with unrelated ranting. Absent that, I wish that Travis could take a hint, a suggestion, or a sincere direct request to heart without twisting it into an anti-Travis/pro-TPA conspiracy.

And yes, the irony of my post here appearing in a thread that Travis started to bash TPA's does not escape me.

Lance F!ttro

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by packs

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it?

Is there a reason that "packs" can talk an unbelievable amount of crap and not have to attach his name to his posts?

[packs]

I'm not talking crap on anyone. I'm venting my frustration about threads like this one. I haven't mentioned anyone by name and I haven't passed a judgement or insulted anyone.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by packs

I just can't stand it anymore. How do you perceive yourself and and what you're doing, and how do you perceive the way other people feel about your posts?

I call BS on that.

[packs]

That's fine. I haven't said anything personal about anyone. I have only talked about the content of the forum and how tiring it can get.