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  #1  
Old 08-27-2013, 10:44 AM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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Default How many COA's make an autograph real?

I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2013, 10:56 AM
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edited...

pulling out of this one.
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2013, 11:08 AM
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oh boy...
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:19 AM
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etc etc etc
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:24 AM
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2013, 11:24 AM
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Can you post the results of this same discussion from autograph planet, or are you only interested in the opinions on this issue from people that are not members of your site? For the record, the answer is zero.
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2013, 12:26 PM
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I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:14 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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exactly four and a half, no more and no less
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:20 PM
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I don't think there are any items out there with multiple COA's.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:23 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otismalibu View Post
I don't think there are any items out there with multiple COA's.
I have seen several with both PSA/DNA and JSA.

Now, STAT, ACE, Morales, etc, those certs always stand on their own.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:26 PM
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Are we talking COAs or COA's?
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:28 PM
frankh8147 frankh8147 is offline
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Originally Posted by mighty bombjack View Post
exactly four and a half, no more and no less
Almost dead on but I don't trust the 'and a half' part- why was that last guy only 50% sure?...to be honest, I think I would prefer 4 rather than 4 1/2 so from my perspective, 4 is my magic number..or you can just use PSA, get one, and know 100% it's real! (I dont usually read the autograph forum but I assume this thread was posted as a pro PSA ad so I figured I would just lead us all right to it!)
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:31 PM
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80% of all autographs are fake, and the other 20% might be fake...
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:34 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankh8147 View Post
(I dont usually read the autograph forum but I assume this thread was posted as a pro PSA ad so I figured I would just lead us all right to it!)
You clearly do NOT read the forum if you think that was the purpose of this thread.

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Old 08-27-2013, 01:34 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
80% of all autographs are fake, and the other 20% might be fake...
Right on!
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  #16  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:57 PM
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Why would anyone answere such a stupid question?
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  #17  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...
That is not correct.
You can take a correspondence course for the educational value of it but that does not make you an FDE.
An FDE needs to work in a lab and get formal training for 2 years before he can qualify.
There is a self titled forensic handwriting examiner in our business named Frank Garo. He has admitted to me that he gave himself that title. The title has no meaning in the forensic business.
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  #18  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:55 PM
Deertick Deertick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travrosty View Post
I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?
I don't have an answer for this.
I do have another answer. One Thousand Nine Hundred and Sixty-Three.
The question is: How many worthless posts does Travis have out of 2011?
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
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That is not correct.
You can take a correspondence course for the educational value of it but that does not make you an FDE.
An FDE needs to work in a lab and get formal training for 2 years before he can qualify.
There is a self titled forensic handwriting examiner in our business named Frank Garo. He has admitted to me that he gave himself that title. The title has no meaning in the forensic business.
That's correct, except the definititon of a "lab" and "formal training" are loosely translated, and the hours logged are at the discretion of the person doing the training which can be easily manipulated. Regardless, there are scores of people with FDE certificates who regularly certify autographs as being authentic only to be proven incorrect at a later date...
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  #20  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:08 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travrosty View Post
I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?
Well, Travis, if the first COA is from Mueller......that's all folks!!!!
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  #21  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:15 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty bombjack View Post
You clearly do NOT read the forum if you think that was the purpose of this thread.

Welcome!
Well done, Wayne.

It's called deflection.
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  #22  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...
I lost all interest when I found out Travis was involved....very involved
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  #23  
Old 08-27-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deertick View Post
i don't have an answer for this.
I do have another answer. One thousand nine hundred and sixty-three.
The question is: How many worthless posts does travis have out of 2011?
2011
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  #24  
Old 08-28-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
there are scores of people with FDE certificates who regularly certify autographs as being authentic only to be proven incorrect at a later date...
+1

(and it seems there are more now than ever, they crawl out from under rocks seemingly every other day, plucking dollars out of people's pockets)
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 08-28-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2013, 04:35 PM
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None. They are all real. Some might not be genuine, though...
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  #26  
Old 08-28-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardSimon View Post
+1

(and it seems there are more now than ever, they crawl out from under rocks seemingly every other day, plucking dollars out of people's pockets)
Yep.
And, quite honestly, if I were ever going to "trust" someone to authenticate items, it would be someone who had a past history of working for a L.E. agency. I think someone with this type of history understands the consequences of falsifying documents, testifying under oath, the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...
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  #27  
Old 08-28-2013, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson View Post
Yep.
And, quite honestly, if I were ever going to "trust" someone to authenticate items, it would be someone who had a past history of working for a L.E. agency. I think someone with this type of history understands the consequences of falsifying documents, testifying under oath, the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...
You mean like Morales or the guys Steve Rocchi has working for him?

Last edited by shelly; 08-28-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-28-2013, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
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You mean like Morales or the guys Steve Rocchi has working for him?
The key word in my statement was "if" Shelly...
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  #29  
Old 08-28-2013, 06:29 PM
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I was just trying to take the if out of the equation.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:42 PM
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the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...
Now that would be a find,, a hobby FDE with those qualities.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:45 PM
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Here's my view: Travis is one of the good guys. He just doesn't know how to communicate his viewpoint in a way that anyone wants to listen. That's not such a bad thing, as anyone can learn how to listen better.

For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
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Now that would be a find,, a hobby FDE with those qualities.
I've heard rumors that there's one guy out there that's pretty honest; it's just a rumor though.......
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:43 PM
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For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.
I have the same experience with him.
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  #34  
Old 08-28-2013, 08:59 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
Here's my view: Travis is one of the good guys. He just doesn't know how to communicate his viewpoint in a way that anyone wants to listen. That's not such a bad thing, as anyone can learn how to listen better.

For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.
He is one of the good guys, no doubt, in a hobby full of greed and slime balls. I agree with his general premises. But man, is his style of "discussion" grating. I feel like he is constantly accusing people (e.g. me) of "backing" and "supporting" TPAs simply because we are merely annoyed by them and not angrily crusading against them.

That gets old quick, but his obsession (borderline insanity) can be entertaining at times, too. These message boards are a nice little slice of society and a hobby within a hobby.
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2013, 06:43 AM
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Yes, but the drama can also turn people off, in a spot where getting the best feeling that something has solid authenticity should be the main goal, be it via TPA, or self education
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2013, 11:46 AM
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What I have found out about this hobby from hanging out here on this forum is that there are a lot of good guys...they just don't all get along together.
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  #37  
Old 08-29-2013, 12:44 PM
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Dan, why would you say that
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  #38  
Old 08-31-2013, 09:43 AM
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on some of the great hobby fist-fights and arguments I have seen in my years of collecting/dealing. Some of them have been freal beauts. Lou Avon vs Mike Bertolini never got past words but that is one I wish had. That would have been 1/2 ton of fun watching.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:47 AM
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Yes, but the drama can also turn people off, in a spot where getting the best feeling that something has solid authenticity should be the main goal, be it via TPA, or self education
If this is true then why are the arguments almost always the longest posts?
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:49 AM
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What I have found out about this hobby from hanging out here on this forum is that there are a lot of good guys...they just don't all get along together.
True, Dan, but it makes for a lot of fun and interesting discussion.
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  #41  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:35 AM
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True, Dan, but it makes for a lot of fun and interesting discussion.
With very rare exceptions, there are ways that work for discussing things with anyone, and actually get an "interesting discussion" as a result. I think the key is being able to accept their opinions, even when they seem ludicrous, and to avoid their buttons. The only way I've found to do that and enjoy it, which means 'pushing the envelope', is to get in a few fights so that you understand what you can get away with. That sounds bad, but some people can take certain things and others can't, so you have to figure each out individually.

I say 'rare exceptions' because I have only found two people on this board that I simply can't talk to - I've apologized when I wasn't even in the wrong, but it had no effect. One of them is actually a super-decent guy - I can tell from his acts of kindness toward others. Oh well.
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Old 02-27-2018, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Klein View Post
on some of the great hobby fist-fights and arguments I have seen in my years of collecting/dealing. Some of them have been freal beauts. Lou Avon vs Mike Bertolini never got past words but that is one I wish had. That would have been 1/2 ton of fun watching.
U must be confusing me with Mead....
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