Future of Grading - CSG and HGA

[parkplace33]

With PSA effectively shutting down earlier this year, I expected an uptick in cards being graded by other companies. Mostly SGC, but also newbies CSG and HGA.

The uptick in SGC cards happened, but I am not seeing an increase in CSG or HGA graded cards. Any ideas why? Still too new? Anyone use either company recently?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

With PSA effectively shutting down earlier this year, I expected an uptick in cards being graded by other companies. Mostly SGC, but also newbies CSG and HGA.

The uptick in SGC cards happened, but I am not seeing an increase in CSG or HGA graded cards. Any ideas why? Still too new? Anyone use either company recently?

MY thoughts are because they are still to new, not enough exposure to the collectors, and the unknown on how buyers will accept their grading and the related value.

PSA and SGC truly dominate currently and even with PSA having Rep issues those graded cards have and retain their values

[Johnny630]

I think vintage cards in CGS holders look lousy. HGA I've never seen a vintage card graded in a HGA holder.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I think vintage cards in CGS holders look lousy. HGA I've never seen a vintage card graded in a HGA holder.

CSG hires the top vintage grader then designs a slab exclusively for modern. Never made a lot of sense to me.

[53toppscollector]

CSG's flip is terrible, it distracts from the actual card so much. They are a reputable name in the collecting industry, so there is opportunity there, but they really need to fix their label/slab

HGA has had really poor quality control, numerous amateur errors, and their slabs have pretty poor resale value so far.

I think a lot of people are just waiting to see what happens with PSA and sitting on lots of raw cards for now.

[D. Bergin]

CSG has like a 3 to 5 month backlog, so it seems like they are doing just fine. I think a lot of collectors who submitted to them are not immediately flipping them.

I did about a 19 card submission with them, and they seem to be really tough at the top of the grading scale to me. A 10 seems almost unheard of from what I’ve seen and experienced.

I also kind of like the look of the holders in hand. People were acting like they are these big unwieldy tombs, but they’re basically the same size as PSA slabs.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

CGS hires the top vintage grader then designs a slab exclusively for modern. Never made a lot of sense to me.

Nailed it. These graders CAN NOT continue down this path. As far as I am concerned, they have priced themselves out of business. I'm gonna do my part to bring raw back in style.

[sportscardpete]

the CSG slab really hurts the cause. It is also tough for a new entrant to do well when there are not a lot of sales of its card. Many flippers will not use them because there is no "comp" for its grade, unlike PSA and even BGS/SGC.

I am really rooting for SGC because I love the slab, and have slowly gotten over its 2020 issues. I did my most recent submission at SGC, which included some modern cards, and was quite pleased.

[53toppscollector]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

the CSG slab really hurts the cause. It is also tough for a new entrant to do well when there are not a lot of sales of its card. Many flippers will not use them because there is no "comp" for its grade, unlike PSA and even BGS/SGC.

I am really rooting for SGC because I love the slab, and have slowly gotten over its 2020 issues. I did my most recent submission at SGC, which included some modern cards, and was quite pleased.

I think SGC's slab looks amazing for cards with white borders, but it looks less amazing for borderless cards or cards without a white/light border.

T206 cards look incredible in SGC slabs, but like, 2018 Topps? Less amazing, imo

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I think SGC's slab looks amazing for cards with white borders, but it looks less amazing for borderless cards or cards without a white/light border.

T206 cards look incredible in SGC slabs, but like, 2018 Topps? Less amazing, imo

Did they ever fix their issue with cards moving around in the slab? Seems like that gasket could really do a number on cards if they slid around.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I think SGC's slab looks amazing for cards with white borders, but it looks less amazing for borderless cards or cards without a white/light border.

T206 cards look incredible in SGC slabs, but like, 2018 Topps? Less amazing, imo

Totally agree. That being said, definitely better than CSG.

I guess that is why PSA does so well. Vintage and modern look OK in its slabs.

[25801wv]

How about a TPG company that only encases the card with an Authentic, not graded slab? Would be safe to purchase online if you trust the TPG and quicker to review cards.

[Pre War Starter]

For Vintage and PreWar guys like me, it seems CSG, even thought they brag about stealing Andy Broome, they are TERRIBLE say grading vintage and pre war.

I recently saw a T206 in a slab with no gasket, just penny sleeve. Are you telling me that card won’t slide and be crooked in the slab in 5-6 years?

Wouldn’t you be able to know this if you had years and years and years of combined grading knowledge?

HGA, at least makes no bones about being a modern card grader.

Hell, HGA even has a Pop Report!!!
CSG doesn’t.

[Beansballcardblog]

As mentioned earlier, CSG is behind. Being over capacity, they are "doing well," at least compared to where they think they should be (unless they just can't get as many graders as they want).

HGA limits how many items can be submitted. I didn't pay attention to the specifics, but at x time, they open up x amount of submissions. I believe this is a weekly event. From what I have seen others post on Twitter, these fill up within minutes.

Can't really expect either one to flood the market with 400 trillion PSA slabs out there.

I have noticed at the last couple of shows in Dallas (the last three-day and a smaller two-day this weekend) that it feels like I'm seeing more and more CSG graded cards. I don't recall seeing any HGA graded cards.

[Exhibitman]

That's interesting. I did an order with CSG early on and was impressed with the slabs and the service.

The slabs are the same size as PSA's, within a millimeter of thickness. I use Superior Fit Innovations sleeves for my slabs and the CSG slabs just fit into the PSA sleeves, which means they are nearly identically sized.

The cards I got back that were odd-sized were securely sealed at four points in the sleeve, like a Beckett slab, not rattling around.



I don't find the flip distracting at all.

[Beansballcardblog]

I don't have any CSG graded cards, but I've seen them in person and like them. My only gripe is the dead white space on the label. It's not as noticeable if the submitter paid for subgrades, but if the card description is short, it still can be noticeable.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

That's interesting. I did an order with CSG early on and was impressed with the slabs and the service.

The slabs are the same size as PSA's, within a millimeter of thickness. I use Superior Fit Innovations sleeves for my slabs and the CSG slabs just fit into the PSA sleeves, which means they are nearly identically sized.

The cards I got back that were odd-sized were securely sealed at four points in the sleeve, like a Beckett slab, not rattling around.



I don't find the flip distracting at all.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

That's interesting. I did an order with CSG early on and was impressed with the slabs and the service.

The slabs are the same size as PSA's, within a millimeter of thickness. I use Superior Fit Innovations sleeves for my slabs and the CSG slabs just fit into the PSA sleeves, which means they are nearly identically sized.

The cards I got back that were odd-sized were securely sealed at four points in the sleeve, like a Beckett slab, not rattling around.



I don't find the flip distracting at all.

Same here. I had a bunch of modernish oddball sized cards done including some 1979 Venorlandus, 1982 Football stickers and various QOS cards, and they all seem pretty secure in the holders.

I also don't mind the old man, big font flips. They are certainly more aesthetically pleasing then the flips that SGC had up until very recently (I like their new flips very much), and the PSA flips, which get the job done, but let's face it........are generic as hell.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Same here. I had a bunch of modernish oddball sized cards done including some 1979 Venorlandus, 1982 Football stickers and various QOS cards, and they all seem pretty secure in the holders.

I also don't mind the old man, big font flips. They are certainly more aesthetically pleasing then the flips that SGC had up until very recently (I like their new flips very much), and the PSA flips, which get the job done, but let's face it........are generic as hell.

For me the look of the CSG is ok and the size of the casing are fine. My concern is the Gradings and how they compare to other grading companies and what the value compared to them are. Since they are newer there is no history to compare it to and no rep yet to enhance, protect, or reduce the sales value. TO unknown

[53toppscollector]

A few more random thoughts on the overall state of things.

I think the big 3 (PSA, SGC, Beckett) are all better suited right now for different things. If you have post war vintage/modern/ultra modern stuff, non-RPA/auto, PSA is the best bet. In terms of how the card will look and protecting its long term value. For pre-war, SGC is the best option, imo. For thicker cards, RPAs, jersey/patch cards and rookie autos, I think Beckett is still the king.

If you are buying cards just to keep in your PC and you don't really care about the resale value, then go with whatever slab you think looks best. I think certain cards look better in certain slabs. If you are trying to compete in the PSA set registry game, then obviously you'll want to buy PSA slabs.

PSA still has by far the best liquidity and movability in the market, IMO. If I were to get hit by a bus, the people liquidating my estate and assets would probably have an easier time (and get the highest return) moving my stuff in PSA holders.

What I think is going to be really interesting is to see what the PSA "value" and "bulk" options look like when they eventually re-open. PSA will get through their backlog, and when they do, they are going to have tons of new employees that they need to keep fully utilized. I think it is in their interest to have a reasonably priced bulk submission option. But I think the days of bulk grading at $8 per card are long gone. I'd guess the new bulk price will be $25-30, but it will be really interesting to see what they are going to say about turnaround times, which for people who grade to sell, is a really big consideration, especially for non-vintage stuff.

[BCauley]

I assume CSG will eventually evolve and develop a following. They've already got a solid reputation in coins and comics so I have no reason to think the same won't happen with CSG. The main thing I see people complain about is the size of the flip and I figure that will eventually change as well.

I'd be surprised if HGA gets any kind of market share in the vintage world. I see so many posts of people getting their cards back from them and it appears that all anybody comments on is the design on the flip and rarely on the card or supposed accuracy of the grade. To me, the flips just look like someone vomited all over them after eating five pounds of skittles. I figure they'll be a company primarily for modern and might stick around if they can get past all the silly labeling errors and keeping cards in place in the holder.

[jcmtiger]

It’’s funny to me all these posts about card grading companies instead of cards.

[Exhibitman]

Since they print the flips anyway, wouldn't it be fun to have team color flips? Send in a Lakers card and you can get it with a purple and gold flip.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Since they print the flips anyway, wouldn't it be fun to have team color flips? Send in a Lakers card and you can get it with a purple and gold flip.

If it is done right that could look really good. Maybe you should go into marketing

[scmavl]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Since they print the flips anyway, wouldn't it be fun to have team color flips? Send in a Lakers card and you can get it with a purple and gold flip.

Like exactly what HGA does? I think, while it should look okay in theory, it looks amateurish, cheap, and messy in practice. My two cents.

[prestigecollectibles]

I saw this posted on Twitter

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by scmavl

Like exactly what HGA does? I think, while it should look okay in theory, it looks amateurish, cheap, and messy in practice. My two cents.

I would like that flip a lot more without the fire/smoke/mist cloud on the right. Just leave that side with a black background.

[Johnny630]

If and when Value/Bulk Comes back I expect a much higher price point. In the $40-$50 range would be my guess...the really don’t have much of a choice.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

With PSA effectively shutting down earlier this year, I expected an uptick in cards being graded by other companies. Mostly SGC, but also newbies CSG and HGA.

The uptick in SGC cards happened, but I am not seeing an increase in CSG or HGA graded cards. Any ideas why? Still too new? Anyone use either company recently?

CSG (like PSA & Beckett) couldn't handle the quantity that was sent their way.
I submitted a few cards w/ another collector, mailed them on March 3rd.
We're told maybe we'll get em back by the new year.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

CSG (like PSA & Beckett) couldn't handle the quantity that was sent their way.
I submitted a few cards w/ another collector, mailed them on March 3rd.
We're told maybe we'll get em back by the new year.

Wow the timelines are long and seem to be getting longer.

Hopefully they and the others start catching up soon

[CobbSpikedMe]

I really don't like the HGA flips with all the color and the busy label. And I didn't like the CSG flips at first. But the CSG flips have grow on me a little and I may pick up a card graded by them at some point just to see one in hand. I wouldn't pay a lot but would consider an 80's rookie or something like that.

I wish them the best and think it would be great if they caught on and eventually sell for good prices and become a real competitor. That would be awesome for the hobby.

[Exhibitman]

I was thinking simpler and cleaner. The HGA ones are too busy and distracting.

[Snowman]

I can't stand the HGA labels. I have one card graded by them, but only because I treated it as a raw purchase and intend to crack it out. The slab itself is actually nicer than I had anticipated. It does feel robust and has a clean look. But those flips could give someone a seizure! They're absolutely horrible. And they're printed with inkjet printers! lol.

I really like the CSG slabs. I just don't like their grading scale. A 10 is too difficult to obtain, and modern collectors want gem mint cards to say '10' on their slabs. They've made that pretty clear over the past couple years just by watching price movements across TPGs. They're just too strict on the top end of the scale, but they're also too loose on the bottom end. I read earlier that someone got 5s and 6s on their creased vintage cards. That's ridiculous if true.

I think SGC is going to become a major player in the modern grading space over the next couple years. They're closing the gap, and I really like the look of their new flips. I'm reslabbing all of my vintage stuff with the newer flips.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

If and when Value/Bulk Comes back I expect a much higher price point. In the $40-$50 range would be my guess...the really don’t have much of a choice.

No Choice? Really?

It appears to me that PSA has become the Elite Service for Elite Collectors with Elite Cards.

That's not me - So I'm pretty much done with them.

That last PSA bulk submit where we waited fully 1 year for return on the cards and then the subsequent ridiculous price increase has completely "cured" me.

CSG has a ridiculous flip that I know was brought to their attention early on by many people (including Net54 members) yet they don't even acknowledge it as an issue.

The HGA flip does nothing but annoy me.

Not sure why these newcomers feel it necessary to completely "reinvent" the wheel. A company that would have come out with flip of PSA and slab of SGC would be well poised to take a run at dominating the market.

I will continue to be a buyer of PSA and SGC slabs until such time as sellers are forced into significantly raising prices simply because of the slab costs.

Hell, I even find myself looking at cards in old GAI slabs these days.

$8 to $10 per card - no problem
$30 to $40 per card - no way

Just my 2 cents....

[Johnny630]

IMO PSA offers the most liquidity for there cards past, present, and future.

Other grading companies might but good but they're never going to bring what a PSA Graded Card Brings.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Since they print the flips anyway, wouldn't it be fun to have team color flips? Send in a Lakers card and you can get it with a purple and gold flip.

I kind of felt like they did that on this Larry Bird I picked up of B/S/T from the board.