1935 National Chicle Premiums

[TanksAndSpartans]

Can anyone point me to a good checklist for these preferably with photos large enough to see the action? (On several of the action photos, I've only ever seen small images and I can't tell what's going on).

Does anyone collect these?

And last question - the ACC designations:

R331 for the main set
R311-2 for the premiums

Is there any rhyme or reason for this? Maybe because one is more traditional "cards" and the other was grouped with photos? Unless its something like that, the premiums getting a lower number than the set seems strange. And a "-2". I would have thought maybe R331-2....

I'm especially interested in seeing the one with Ace Gutowsky. I wish he had been in the main set, but I guess 3 out of 4 from the Lions backfield ain't bad.

[jefferyepayne]

You are in my wheelhouse now, John. I collect these and have the entire set. Ask me any questions you want about them. It is a lot of fun to put together. There are 17 known premiums in the set.

Here is the one with Ace.



My understanding is that the R311 designation was selected by Jefferson Burdick to encompass all of the National Chicle Premiums and he used the "-1, -2" designation to distinguish between baseball and football. The baseball set is R311-1

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Awesome! Thanks Jeff. Great photo - its my first time really seeing it. I appreciate it. Too bad Ace didn't get the better of this exchange

Great info on the "-1", "-2" designations - I completely forgot about baseball.

So the Beckett checklist is:

#1 Joe Bach
#2 Eddie Casey
#3 George Christensen
#4 Red Grange
#5 Stan Kostka
#6 Joe Maniaci
#7 Harry Newman
#8 Walter Switzer
#9 Chicago Bears
#10 New York Giants
#11 Bill Shakespeare punting/Notre Dame's Quick Kick vs. Army
#12 Pittsburgh U. in Rough
#13 Pittsburgh Pirates
#14 S.L. Morton/Touchdown: Morton of Yale
#15 Dixie Howell/A Tight Spot
#16 Cotton Warburton/Cotton Goes Places
#17 Ace Gutowsky/Steve Hokuf

Questions/Comments:

-Is the numbering arbitrary because I recall the backs are blank, right? Did Beckett match their numbering with the ACC?

-I like the inclusion of #3, #4, #7, and #17 - all would've been worthy of cards 37-40, in my opinion. Although I wonder if Gutowsky got in just by virtue of the fact someone liked that photo…. We may never know, but I'm glad it worked out to include him.

-They were really enamored with Kostka - interesting that his seems to be the only image shown in both the base set and the premiums and it looks like the premium photo was used as the basis of the card, right?

-#1, #6, #8, #15, #16?? College players? I don't recognize any of the names.

-Is #13 a Pirates team photo? I get the Bears and Giants since the set comes on the heels of the Sneakers game, but if its a Pirates team photo, that seems really random. Unless.... remember that letter from National Chicle someone posted once requesting photos? Maybe they were just making use of photos supplied by the team.... We could probably speculate forever - let me know if you have an opinion. Thanks Again.

[jefferyepayne]

Lots of thoughts and opinions on this set.

It's been expressed before that the Chicle set was supposed to have 240 players in it according to info on the back. Assuming this was true, they were likely planning many, many more premiums as well. 17 is a really odd number for a set!

My bet is that all of the individual photos (like Kostka) were slated to be cards in the set as well but they didn't get around to manufacturing them. We know from a letter sent from National Chicle to the Eagles that a collector has that Chicle had requested photos of every player on the roster.

Re: the numbering. If you look closely, all of the premiums are in alphabetical order by title (first the individual players and then the action/team photos) with the exception of Cotton and Ace at the end. My bet is that these two were discovered after the original checklist had been created so they just added them to the end instead of reordering them all and confusing people who already had the checklist by number. The backs are blank.

#1 Joe Bach was head coach of the Pittsburgh Pirates and one of the seven mules who blocked for the four horseman of notre dame. He has a card in the 1952 Bowman set (one of the coaches cards)



#6 Joe Maniaci of Fordham played for the Bears and Dodgers in the NFL

#8 Walter Switzer of Cornell

#15 Dixie Howell of Alabama played briefly for the Skins in the NFL

#16 Cotton Warburton of USC turned down an offer to play for the Bears and went into business in Hollywood

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff. Wow another (Rockne) Chicle/Notre Dame connection - I had no idea.

Great info across the board - I appreciate it. I'm glad this set got a thread.

[jefferyepayne]

Let's keep it rolling! I'm hoping this thread will encourage other collectors to start picking these up and work on the set.

For an unknown reason, three of the premiums are extremely difficult to find. The rest you will see quite often.



Joe Bach is the most difficult to find and the most expensive premium in the set. I've only seen two of them come up for auction in the last 6 years. If you see one, grab it!



Walter Switzer. I snagged this one early on before I even realized how difficult it was to find. I got it in a lot of premiums I purchased all at once.



Tarzan (aka Christiansen) is a bear to find. This was the last premium I found to complete my set.

The Grange is fairly common but not cheap! One thing you can do is look for a Grange that has been misclassified on ebay. Because these premiums don't include information on what the set is, I've seen these mislabeled by sellers who don't know what they are. They just list it as a "photo" of Grange. Sometimes you can get it cheap when misclassified like this so watch for them.

Hope this helps.

jeff

[LuckyLarry]

Never seen nor really heard of these 1935 National Chicle Premiums are they cardboard or paper? How did collectors obtain these back in '35?
Larry

[jefferyepayne]

Hi Larry. Glad you popped in! To answer your questions:

1. These are photos

2. The wrapper explains how you can get them:



I hope that helps and keep the questions coming! National Chicle is one of my favorite sets to collect and talk about.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

I love how it says "These Wrappers Are Valuable" - its still true.

[tuckr1]

Thanks for the info and pictures Jeff, I have 2 of the 17 premiums, still trying to complete the 36 card set of the Chicles, What an awesome set love these cards. I will probably try to complete the 17 premiums after I get the first 36 done, probably in Poor to good range, some of these get pricey!!!

[TanksAndSpartans]

Tucker - glad you checked in too. I recently lost an auction on an Ernie Smith (pm me if you want details). The first thing I thought of when I saw it was you, but then I said - "wait a minute, I need that one". I should've told you - I'm not proud of it, I guess I'm not that selfless

Back to the topic at hand, one thing that always interested me was the photos that the cards are based off. Unfortunately, only in the case of the Kostka, do we have a photo released as a premium that looks like a photo that was used as the source for creating a card. Searching Google images, some black and white photos can be found quickly - Swede Johnston, Beattie Feathers, but some not so much. Two I always wanted to find are John Dell Isola and Homer Griffiths. Always wondered how Homer was playing football at the beach!

[th38larg]

Has anyone ever run into reprints or repros of the premiums? Just wondering if there is anything a rookie collector should look out for.

[tuckr1]

Just reread this post it’s fantastic !!!!! I’m still wondering if anyone has come across an empty box? Or sealed pack or type 1 photo of the cards?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by tuckr1

Just reread this post it’s fantastic !!!!! I’m still wondering if anyone has come across an empty box? Or sealed pack or type 1 photo of the cards?

Nope, nope, and nope :-(

No luck on any of these fronts.

jeff

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Nope, nope, and nope :-(

No luck on any of these fronts.

jeff

Have they ever found an unopened pack, Jeff? Great thread, figured I'd move it back up there -lol.