Change of Pace: 1962 Green Tints (scan heavy)

[JollyElm]

It's late and I was uploading my complete 1962 Topps Green Tint run to my bucket, so I figured I'd post them here for the heck of it. I can't recall ever seeing the entire thing posted together in one place. Hopefully, some of my variation loving brethren will enjoy this spectacle.












I'm sure most of you already know this, but the beauty of the 'green tints' is the fact that each card's artwork is cropped differently than their regular counterpart. So, although the greenish (or dulled) hue is readily apparent in many/most of these cards, there remains a distinct disparity between the two versions of these cards apart from the color balance, making them true variations.

Notes:
1. Mack Jones (#186) is one of the toughest GT’s to recognize. His sky remains blue and the difference in cropping is so minimal, it’s almost imperceptible. If you look close enough, though, there does appear a slight greenish/yellowish aura around his hat that helps give it away.
2. Other than the 4 or 5 cards that have shockingly green backgrounds/fields, one of the easiest (funnest?) GT's to recognize instantly is the 'Greatest Sports Hero' card (#143). The girl's neon dress just jumps off the page at you!
3. Besides what's contained within the 'Babe Ruth Special' subset, there are only 2 GT HOFer's (Al Kaline and Ron Santo).
4. For my money, Gehrig And Ruth (#140) is the hardest GT to get at a decent price.
5. The Hal Reniff portrait version (#139) isn’t a true GT. It is really nothing more than a misnumbered card and it has neither the greenish hues nor any cropping differences when compared to its counterpart (#159). I certainly don’t believe it was printed at the same time as the other GT’s. However, it does remain a true and distinct variation, since it was later renumbered correctly to the aforementioned #159. Ergo, there is no GT numbered 159, as the ‘real’ Reniff GT shows him pitching (#139).
6. The checklist card (#192) is another curiosity. It, too, lacks the true indicators of a GT (hue or cropping), but remains a distinct variation as it differs from its common counterpart by having "Check List, 3" (comma) instead of "Check List 3" (no comma). I imagine (as was common with Topps checklists) it was printed at a different time than the GT cards.
7. A bit of stupidity that has always amused me. The 'Babe Hits 60' GT is often referred to as having the 'foul pole visible in the background.' Um, come on!! The pole they're referring to (behind The Babe to the far left in the scan) isn't the frickin' foul pole. It's part of the stadium structure and it's buried deep in the crowd, way out of play. Who in their right mind would ever call this a foul pole???????
8. There are two green Greens: Dallas (#111) and Pumpsie (#153).
9. I think I got everything correct here, but if I’m off on anything, LMK.
10. If anyone wants to know the secret to spotting the cropping differences between the two versions of a specific card, LMK.
11. Shameless plug: In looking at these scans, I noticed that many of these cards could use an upgrading, either based on general shape or the infamous Topps centering problems. If you have any of these guys in better shape than mine, I do have a whole bunch of GT doubles to trade (plus a ton of other stuff, too), so give me a shout.

[JollyElm]

I guess PSA has no clue what they're doing when it comes to green tints:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-Topps-1...item20dd1969c3

Look at the dirt in the home plate area around his feet. It's accurately 'dirt colored ' and thus the regular, non-GT version of card #139. Now look at my card (above). Green, green, green!! Man, did they get it wrong.

[ALR-bishop]

Great post Daren. I had a lot of fun putting this "set" together

I know a guy working on an article about why at least two versions exist for each Topps checklist from the 60s and early 70s, which would include your observation in note 6

[Rich Klein]

I always found the DIck Hall card hard to tell if a Green Tint or not

[Paul S]

Nice work Daren, I wouldn't have the patience. So many of the 62Ts have such different colors. I have the most trouble when there's a Cincy Red and a green ball field in the background. I'm guessing that the photographer was dealing with the sun and different film speed, although I am certainly no photographer. What's up with Wally Moon? I always assumed that the headshot was the green tint (both cards are #190)..

[stlcardsfan]

Now that is an impressive Unibrow!!!

Originally Posted by Paul S

Nice work Daren, I wouldn't have the patience. So many of the 62Ts have such different colors. I have the most trouble when there's a Cincy Red and a green ball field in the background. I'm guessing that the photographer was dealing with the sun and different film speed, although I am certainly no photographer. What's up with Wally Moon? I always assumed that the headshot was the green tint (both cards are #190)..

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I always found the DIck Hall card hard to tell if a Green Tint or not

hall.jpg

I refer to Dick Hall as 'ole shirty.' His GT is hazy, unfocused and the sky is very dark and not the light blue of his regular card. But to quickly spot his GT, look no further than his shirt front. If you can't see the entire top portion of his undershirt that runs across the opening in his jersey, then you're looking at his GT.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Paul S

Nice work Daren, I wouldn't have the patience. So many of the 62Ts have such different colors. I have the most trouble when there's a Cincy Red and a green ball field in the background. I'm guessing that the photographer was dealing with the sun and different film speed, although I am certainly no photographer. What's up with Wally Moon? I always assumed that the headshot was the green tint (both cards are #190)..

Moon is definitely an anomaly. Each of the player pose variation cards--Lee Walls (#129), Billy Hoeft (#134), Bill Kunkel (#147), Carl Willey (#174), Eddie Yost (#176) and Wally Moon (#190)--have distinct GT attributes such as a green sky or a hazy, blurred look, except for Moon and Willey. The shots on their cards are definitely not examples of crisp photography or anything, but they are in no way 'overly greened.' However, the overall darkness of the shots coupled with the unbalanced redness of some of the skintones allows them entry into the GT canon.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Now that is an impressive Unibrow!!!

Yes, you could land a 767 on them. Being a Cards fan you know that he played for them before becoming a Dodger. Won the '54 ROY over Aaron and Banks

[Harliduck]

Hey...cool stuff on the 62s and thanks for the info. I haven't spent a lot of time on that year and didn't even realize there were two pose card variations. Those are super cool, much like the 1969 Topps Clay Dalrymple. I don't collect variations unless I accidentally acquire them, but when I tackle the 62s I will want both poses to those variations. COOL.

I honestly don't understand the Green Tint cards and have no idea if I have any. Still very interesting...

[ALR-bishop]

[talkinbaseball]

I love learning the history of baseball cards.

[JollyElm]

mack.jpg

I guess I should've been more specific in my original post. When I'm talking about determining whether or not a card is a Green Tint, I am specifically talking about looking at just a single card. If you have both the GT and the regular card side by side, it is incredibly easy to see the differences in the two. But if you're looking at a single card and are trying to determine if it's a GT, it can be very tough at times. Some tips are definitely useful.

With Mack Jones, for instance, the giveaway is the appearance of that blue line in the background at left. If it's there, you have a GT.

[steve B]

Great stuff, I've always liked the green tints for some reason. I have a few, but haven't really worked at getting all of them. Maybe that's a good project for the new year.

Looks like a bunch of them are less obvious. I'll have to take another look at my 62s.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

Could someone post the Roger Craig GT and regular side by side?

[JollyElm]

craig.jpg

The Roger Craig GT is all about the sky. If it looks normal and blue in any sort of fashion, it's the regular version. The GT features a dark, murkfest in the heavens.

But Roger's tell is that little, whitish piece of his uniform that appears on the right side of the card above the decorative paper curl. If it is visible there, you have the GT.

[GoldenAge50s]

Can anyone tell me if this is a Green Tint or not? Are Green Tints worth more, and if so by about what %?

Thanks for any help on this one.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

Can anyone tell me if this is a Green Tint or not? Are Green Tints worth more, and if so by about what %?

Thanks for any help on this one.

That Babe is the regular version. 100% sure.
I've decided to do the definitive guide to green tints, showing the tells of each card, so keep an eye out for that. The photoshop work alone is going to be a nightmare, but ultimately it will be a very helpful tool for GT collectors.

[brightair]

Might be helpful to check out this OBC article.
Go to www.oldbaseball.com
Click on directory and scroll down to find
•1962 GREEN TINT VARIATIONS, by Tom Housley

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by brightair

Might be helpful to check out this OBC article.
Go to www.oldbaseball.com
Click on directory and scroll down to find
•1962 GREEN TINT VARIATIONS, by Tom Housley

When I click on the directory, it just shows the member names and under Housley, I can't find the article you mentioned. I also did a search for "1962 GREEN TINT VARIATIONS" on the site and found nothing pertinent.

[JollyElm]

OK, did a web search and found it.
Both versions of each card are shown, so it's nice to see, but what I'm putting together gives you the green tint 'tells.' In other words, if you are looking at a lone example of a card, I'm going to give you specific things to look for to determine whether or not said card is a GT.

[brob28]

Very helpful Richard, thanks for posting.

Darren, go to "Library" then "All about the cards" there you will find "62 Green tint variations". Very helpful to see them side by side, even with that view some are tough. The White Sox team card and Babe's Farewll are two where I can't really see any cropping difference. Any help??

[ALR-bishop]

...is one of my heroes in the world of variants. We could all take lessons.

[grainsley]

The '62 White Sox card-I think with the regular version, 2nd row on the far left, his elbow is quite a ways from the left edge. The tint (IMO) is the one where his elbow almost touches the border. This one is also a little out of focus on my card. Ruth's Farewell has slight cropping differences, and the color is washed out, some more than others.

[JollyElm]

Bill,
These 2 pages from my treatise on GT's should explain everything for you. The resolution isn't too great, unfortunately, but you should still be able to see what I'm pointing out without too much difficulty.

Just look towards the red circles...

Page 2.jpg

Page 18.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

So what is the explanation as to why there are cropping differences between the regular and green tint cards?

[ALR-bishop]

For one thing there were 2 separate printers used...different companies

[brob28]

Grant - Darren, thank you. Darren, nice work.

Al I had heard that there was a second printing plate made for a second printer to help with larger than ususal production needs in the 2nd series. After the second series this was stopped - perhaps due to the color being botched by the second printer. Have you heard/read similar?

Still seems odd that the cropping would be different, despite the second print plate being made. Doesnt seem like it woudl be too difficult to match them perfectly given techniques in the '60's.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by brob28

Grant - Darren, thank you. Darren, nice work.

Al I had heard that there was a second printing plate made for a second printer to help with larger than ususal production needs in the 2nd series. After the second series this was stopped - perhaps due to the color being botched by the second printer. Have you heard/read similar?

Still seems odd that the cropping would be different, despite the second print plate being made. Doesnt seem like it woudl be too difficult to match them perfectly given techniques in the '60's.

Due to the second printer being discussed here before, I was aware of a second printer helping to print this series...but what I did not understand is why this other printer used a separate (unique due to the cropping differences) printing plate from what Topps used?

A second printing plate being made in order for Topps to sub out some of the printing to a second printer in order for Topps to fulfill the stronger than expected demand does make sense. However, in my experience with the 62s there appears to be no shortage of 1st series cards (unlike some previous issues) when compared to the second series of 62s. So, if Topps was able to handle the printing expectations for the 1st series of 62s, why were they not able to handle the second series also?

Also, based on my collecting of this set over the past 10+ years, my experience has been that for every 5-6 regular issue 2nd ser cards there is one GT. Is it known more precisely what the actual print rates are for the regular cards as compared to the GT cards?

[ALR-bishop]

I think it was Dave Hornish who was the source of what I heard about a second printer. I 'll ask him to visit this thread. Great thread Daren

[Harford20]

Darren,
Do you have the specifics on the differences in the 1962 Braves team card for the GT? My eyes have crossed trying to find differences without any luck (although maybe I just have not found a GT yet to note the differences).
Dave

[grainsley]

Guy on the left, front row, in a black suit.....one version is cropped and cuts off his right shoulder......other version you see more of his shoulder, almost all of it.

[ALR-bishop]

Daren---can you put up scans from post 25 again

[brewing]

Wondering if the cad on the right is a green tint.

[JollyElm]

Hey Brent, your Kaline is the regular version.
Here are the assessments of both cards brought up today...

Page 25.jpg

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Attachment 127305

The Roger Craig GT is all about the sky. If it looks normal and blue in any sort of fashion, it's the regular version. The GT features a dark, murkfest in the heavens.

But Roger's tell is that little, whitish piece of his uniform that appears on the right side of the card above the decorative paper curl. If it is visible there, you have the GT.

Thanks. Mine is a GT. Yay! Can I retire on the sales proceeds?

[ALR-bishop]

Daren---do you know why your scans keep dropping out ? I'm too slow

edited---never mind---just my ineptitude

[D.P.Johnson]

Great thread. Thank you Darren.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Daren---do you know why your scans keep dropping out ? I'm too slow

edited---never mind---just my ineptitude

Two r's , Al, two r's. "Darren."

[4reals]

Great thread guys! I've owned my GT Dodgers for a while now but until I read this thread I was unaware that there were cropping "tells" as well, very interesting. I immediately went back and looked at all my GT Dodgers and easily found the areas to look for in the future.

Going through them made me wonder, are there any non-green tint cards in the 62 Topps set with cropping variations? There's gotta be, right? If so, any Dodgers?

[ALR-bishop]

There are cropping and other differences in every 1960s Topps checklist, including 62

[JollyElm]

Just updated the original scans after upgrading about 15 or so of my cards. If anyone else is looking to trade any GT's (or other cards), give me a shout.

[JollyElm]

Bump. I posted a thread in the B/S/T section looking for people trading green tints. I showed scans of a slew of GT's I have to trade, so check it out.

[obctom]

Hi everyone,
The subject line caught my eye - and here is the direct link to the my photos of the '62 green tints:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom/...7602774575697/

I scanned all of the greenies side-by-side next to their non-greenie brothers one day when I was recovering from foot surgery & was confined to a chair.
Enjoy!

Tom Housley

[obctom]

Here is the direct link to the my photos of the '62 green tints:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom/...7602774575697/

In the side-by-side photos, the green tint is always on the left & the corrected, non-green version is one the right.

Click around on the options; you should be able to see the original-sized photos rather than the smaller thumbnails.

Enjoy!


Tom Housley
OBC member

[steve B]

That's really cool. I had more than I thought.

Steve B

[brob28]

Nice work Tom, I've used that quite a bit while working on my GT's.

[obctom]

Originally Posted by brob28

Nice work Tom, I've used that quite a bit while working on my GT's.

Glad to help. I know those things are tricky - I ended up squinting at eBay listings a LOT trying to determine cropping differences etc - so I thought I'd make a small contribution to help my fellow variation-afflicted collectors.

[ALR-bishop]

Thanks for chipping in, Tom

[JollyElm]

I received a message asking for the tells of a few cards, so here they are:

Page 11.jpg
Page 23.jpg