How do team payroll checks survive?

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Posted By: brian

Does anyone know how they make their way into the market? Are they obtained directly from the bank where they are cashed? Or do they get mailed back to the team after cancellation, and are obtained from the team? Wouldn't a team employee or bank employee get in trouble from selling them or taking them home?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The checks would go back to the team for their files or disposal. I would imagine the team would only require the checks as tax or other records for a few years, and might dispose of them after that. I'm sure loads of old team payroll checks have been taken to the local junk yard over the decades. 30 years ago, an outdated player signed check may have had little meaning or value to the team. The team wouldn't have wanted employees stealing from active files, but may not have cared a lot if an employee kept stuff about to be thrown out. Some stuff has has come from the estates of executives who kept their business files until they died. Whether or not the executive had legal rights to company records (and he might have had legal right to keep them), the team probably didn't care that his files contained some musty old checks, contracts and player signed lunch vouchers.

In short, some stuff has been stolen, some taken with permission or authority, and a lot where the team didn't care. Did the executive have company authority to keep those old checks and player signed lunch vouchers when he retired? His former employer may not even care, in particular if they know they probably would have thrown them out if he had left them behind.

In short short, if the checks are 50 years old, the team probably has no business use for them and may have years ago instructed an employee to dispose of them.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

In 1973, when Yankee Stadium closed for renovation, the boxing mavin Burt Sugar paid an undisclosed--but not very large--sum for all the papers he could cart away. Amongst those papers were all the Ruppert/Huston and Ruppert/Barrow Yankee paychecks that went into hobby circulation, as well as numerous 1920s-1930s Yankee contracts.
Burt made out like a bandit.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

My father used to work for the company that handled the Academy Awards publlc relations. One spring break he hired me to clear out their old files. They had 30+ years of stuff in about 50 four-drawer file cabinets. Needless to say, I filled my car with memorabilia and could have filled a large truck. When you have a company that has abundant storage and no real changes of ownership, it isn't unusual for stuff to pile up until the space is needed or they move or renovate.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: brian

I enjoyed the interesting answers. Had no idea Bert Sugar had bought the checks from the Yankees. I bet he has made some similar deals on boxing memorabilia too.

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Posted By: whitehse

As a former front office employee for a major league baseball team that has been in existance for over a hundred years I can tell you I had alot of alone time in the old ballpark playing security guard on many occasions when the normal security guy would not make it in. I literally was the only one in the place and had the run of the ballpark all to myself. Its lucky for this team that I was honest because I could have removed many items and they would never have found out as they had no way to track these various items as many of these documents were afterthoughts to this team. (this has since changed thanks to Peter Ueberoth as he directed teams to examine what they discard and watch for potential historical documents)

Case in point:

I was snooping in the offices one night and walked into a broom closet that contained 4 regular file cabinets. These cabinets were covered with cleaning products and other junk and were also not locked. I opened one of the drawers and discovered the drawer was jammed full with original player contracts that were signed by the player, team executive and many times a league official. I proceeded to open each and every drawer of all 4 of these file cabinets and each drawer was jammed with the clubs copy of the player contracts. I held in my hand original signed copies of Hall of famers rookie contracts and betond. Legendary players like Rogers Hornsby and KIKI Cuyler and others were literally tossed in this cabinet decades earlier and forgotten about. These were just stuffed in drawers in a broom closet somewhere. I know these contracts have since been secured but I think back on how different my life would be now if I just took 2,3 or 4 of those contracts and sold them for a nice sum of money now. Of course I am not sure if I could live with myself though!

I was also able to walk away from the team with many items that were tossed in the garbage. team records, photos, autographs you name it they tossed it. It was always fun dumpster diving at the end of the day during the off season. So many stories so little time but I think back to that time in my life and would love to go back in time knowing what I know now. I cannot imagine all the stuff I passed on in the dumpster that I should have grabbed.

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Posted By: leon

Great story and thanks for sharing it. I can't imagine how many millions of dollars (in today's value) of documents different teams discarded the way you described....regards

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Posted By: whitehse

Leon let me tell you if you saw what I saw and look back on it 20 years later you will literally cry. Old scouting reports that shows Pete Rose as a 19 year old good hit no field prospect. Player listings from the 1953 or 54 spring training where the players had to sign the sheet to get their per diem spring training pay. (they threw a few of these out and I have them!) Photos, important documents, you name it it was there. I always regret not grabbing the glass negatives that date back to the start of he NFL which are probably worth a mint! ohhh the humanity!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Andrew S.

Speaking of payroll checks, here is a Miller Huggins that sold on Clean Sweep Auctions about a week ago.

http://www.csauctions.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000277366


And now this one that closed on eBay yesterday.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170265680752

Almost a $2000 difference, and the one on Clean Sweep doesn't have Ed Barrow's signature. The upcoming PayPal only policy looks like it's already doing a lot of damage.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

The Verkman Huggins check is signed by Yankees co-owner T.L. Huston.
Huston's is a much more difficult signature to obtain than Barrow's.

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Posted By: Mark

Definitely not illustrated in the final bid difference of those Huggins' checks linked above. The CSAuctions is much cleaner without the stamp.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

That's certainly not a $2000 difference.

Auctions are funny, as we all know.

As Marvyn Gaye And Tammi Tyrell said, "It Takes Two."

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Posted By: Andrew S.

"The Verkman Huggins check is signed by Yankees co-owner T.L. Huston. Huston's is a much more difficult signature to obtain than Barrow's."

David, I had no idea about Huston being so rare. Just thought since Barrow was HOF, his would automatically command a premium. Thanks for the enlightenment.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

While David is right inasfar as Houston's rarity is concerned, I think it's a safe bet that the winning bidder could have cared less if T.L. had signed the check over Barrow. Barrow's signature on both personal and team-issued checks are nauseatingly plentiful. From an investment standpoint, it's best to secure a Barrow autograph on a nice 3X5 as opposed to a check that bears no historical context. These don't seem to be as available as they once were. Then again, if you want a cheap example of a HOFer who has been dead for over 50 years, by all means, pick up a Barrow check on eBay.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Once again, Jodi is correct.
However, I did not mean to imply that the $2000 "premium" obtained in the Verkman auction was due to Huston's signature.
In my opinion, the eBay price is closer to the "actual market value" of a Huggins payroll check.
Verkman just had the fortunate circumstance of two deep-pockets wanting that check at the same time.
One spent far too much.

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

Agreed. I also agree with whoever commented about the differences in condition also affecting price. Another problem is that items such as these are not best-suited for eBay. They fare much better in auctions such as Verkman's. eBay does much better with "filler cuts" on desirable names such as Huggins. A premium item such as a payroll check rarely sells for what it should when placed on eBay.