58 Yankees Souvenir ball

[vlg]

I have an unusual ball that has been with the family since 58 as far as I know of. 5 different experts, have rendered 6 different opinions so far, and I admit it is unusual. The persons who have viewed the ball physically, have stated categorically that it is not a stamped ball, and if you review the signatures with a stamped ball they do not appear to be stamped. The majority of the signatures are different than the stamped signatures, but some are almost identical. Some are radically different. The layout of the signatures, would have you think that it is stamped. A different expert (names are withheld as these are truly well known people) has stated categorically that it is a stamped ball. Here's my question. Does anyone have photos of a 58 Yankees (with Virgil Trucks is the reason I believe that its 58, please correct me if I'm off base here) stamped ball for comparison? Also, what names are on the 58 Stamped ball?

[mr2686]

Not sure which players would be on the 58 stamped ball, but just an fyi...Trucks came over to the Yankees from the A's June15th, 1958, but wasn't released until April 14th 1959, so I suppose he could have signed a ball/balls in spring training in 1959. I find it odd that he would be on a stamped ball if he came over in mid-season and then didn't make the squad the following year.

[vlg]

Gets stranger the more you dig. Starting to look more like its worth going to JSA, etc...

VLG

[RichardSimon]

Put up some pictures and it will be easy to tell if it is stamped.
Any experienced collector/dealer can easily tell.
If you cannot put up pics - is it an Official Amer Lge ball? Do any of the signatures overlap each other?

[vlg]

Will take some better photos from all angles. (had some problems with my cheap camera getting clear shots) As for experieiced dealers being able to tell, the problem has been that so far, extremely knowledgeable collectors (long time store owners) have expressed differing opinions.
Still looking for other photos of a stamped '58 ball. Anyone know whether or not stamps were made each year? A stamped ball from the same year , should have identical signatures...correct?
I have compared stamps from consecutive years, and it seems that they are used from year to year.

VLG

[RichardSimon]

It has been my experence that many store owners are only guessing when it comes to autographs.
If you put pics up I can tell you easily.
It is not hard to tell.

[khkco4bls]

heres a 52 if that helps. http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-Yankees-Sou...#ht_725wt_1034

[vlg]

Thanks, I appreciate your help. The stamped balls that Ive seen, like this one look stamped. (For lack of a better way of putting it) whereas my ball doesn't. As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to take good photos. I have one close up that I took of the Ed Ford signature so that I could compare it to a known stamped signature, laying one over the other shows that they are different, and my ball shows what looks like the the point of a ball point leaving a depression. Ill try at least getting that up. (Have to export it) Do appreciate all the help.

VLG

[vlg]

Here is the one detailed photo that I was able to get so far. I had it in a program that allows you to compare signatures, so the top one is from a known stamped ball, a '56. (sorry for the delay, had to find a place to park images and time isn't what it used to be) They are obviously different, the question that I was trying to find out is, were different stamps used. I have checked some of the long running stamps, and they seem identical from year to year. First opinion that I had was that the ball had fraudulent signatures.




VLG

[Lordstan]

VLG,
First let me say that I do not claim to be an expert.
My opinion is that both of those signatures pictured are stamped.
I think the signatures in the pictures you posted are almost identical. I believe that any differences you see, relate to the quality of the pictures used and that the balls perhaps have aged differently due to different handling over the years.
If you post pictures of the ball in its entirety, as opposed to individual close ups, I think it should be fairly easy to tell if it's stamped.
Best,
Mark

[thekingofclout]

I'm not sure if this can be of any help. The sweet-spot view of a virgin 1961 stamped ball.

1961yanksteamball.jpg

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by vlg

Here is the one detailed photo that I was able to get so far. I had it in a program that allows you to compare signatures, so the top one is from a known stamped ball, a '56. (sorry for the delay, had to find a place to park images and time isn't what it used to be) They are obviously different, the question that I was trying to find out is, were different stamps used. I have checked some of the long running stamps, and they seem identical from year to year. First opinion that I had was that the ball had fraudulent signatures.




VLG

I believe that the bottom one is stamped as well, for the following reasons:

1. The signature starts out going smoothly across a stitching hole.

2. Is it likely that someone would sign a ball starting out the signature by going straight through a stitching hole? I would more likely expect to see it at the end of a signature if the signer ran out of space.

3. If it was signed going through the stitching hole, wouldn't the very nature of hitting the hole not yield a smooth signature but rather cause the signer's pen to jump or to restart? In this case it passes right over the hole, narrowed by the side of the hole with no apparent disturbance in flow.

4. I don't see that the signatures are "obviously different" as you stated. But don't take my word for it. Here are the two somewaht randomly cut and pieced together. They sure fit together like they are the same. (I did proportionately slightly increase the size of the "known Stamped ball" as the image was a little smaller.)

[RichardSimon]

Not to keep harping on this, but PUT UP pictures of the ball and the mystery will be solved.
Many of us here would be able to determine stamped or authentic in a quick flash.

[Heritage Sports]

While Richard is correct that more photos would be helpful, I don't see there being any doubt that this is a stamped ball based solely on that Whitey Ford autograph. I'd be willing to bet that if the ball were cleared of "autographs," it would be blank, correct? No manufacturer's stamping. Every stamped ball I've seen has no maker's marks, while conversely every hand signed ball does have them (perhaps there is a 1 in 10,000 exception, but I can't recall one). And I'm also assuming that the application of the signatures are much more regimented than hand signed balls, such as this 1958 example.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on these assumptions, but I see perhaps a dozen stamped balls a week here at Heritage and I feel like I can spot them from a mile away.

Again, let me stress the image below is a genuine hand signed ball, provided for the sake of comparison. I'm sure all of us will see how different it looks from the image provided by "thekingofclout" on 1/24.