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  #1  
Old 09-09-2012, 06:25 PM
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Default What is the toughest baseball HOF autograph to obtain?

With the recent post about a possible Addie Joss signature, it got me to wondering who is the toughest HOFer to find a signature of - is it Joss? King Kelly?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-illini View Post
With the recent post about a possible Addie Joss signature, it got me to wondering who is the toughest HOFer to find a signature of - is it Joss? King Kelly?
yes, and yes, and rube waddell and a few others where there is 1, 2 or none known and mr. stinson can take over from here.

Last edited by travrosty; 09-09-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2012, 07:25 PM
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I bet there aren't too many Ross Youngs or Candy Cummings around. Probably zero examples from the early negro league players like Pete Hill.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I bet there aren't too many Ross Youngs or Candy Cummings around. Probably zero examples from the early negro league players like Pete Hill.
There were two Ross Youngs in the August Heritage auction (though that is an anomaly as he is extremely tough).

You're right about Hill and many of the early Negro Leaguers. Cristobal Torriente, Smoky Joe Williams, Bullet Rogan, now those are some hard to find autos.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:56 PM
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Ask the experts at Coach's Corner what the toughest one is to find and they will say none are tough to find
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  #6  
Old 09-10-2012, 08:14 AM
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There are at least a dozen considered tough to impossible. About 2 dozen which only a few examples exist of , topping my list of perhaps impossible (at least at present) would be
1) Jose Mendez
2) Cristobal Torriente
3) Frank Grant

nearly impossible
4) King Kelly
5) Tim Keefe
6) Hoss Radbourne
7) Buck Ewing
8) Addie Joss
and probably a few others. But the top three "forget it"

I was researching #1 & #2 over 18 years before their induction into the hall, And was never able (even then) to produce a single lead. And that included knocking on doors and even making "cold calls" and being armed with information that even today I've kept secret
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:31 AM
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Thanks everyone - I hadn't even considered some of the early negro league players. I would have to think some of those would have to be a miracle to find an example of.

Tim Keefe surprises me that he is that difficult. Didn't he live to be about 75? I know autograph collecting didn't really exist during his lifetime, but I would have thought there were enough checks/government documents over the course of 75 years to keep him off the top 10 of this list.
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  #8  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:22 AM
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are there any post war players that are more difficult than you'd think?
Mike Marshall/Neil Armstrong types that won't sign?
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:40 AM
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John Ward is always the one that surprises me. For his fame and status as an Attorney after his playing days (he was VERY active in the community and one of the top Lawyers in New York), you'd think there would be hundreds of documents with his autograph on them but I would bet less than 20 are out there in collectors hands. Maybe someday a huge cache will be found but I doubt it.

Rhys
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:40 AM
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With regards to the tough Hall of Famers , according to Ron K. who's book is due out soon the only HOFers NOT pictured in his book are
KEEFE & GRANT. Examples of which could not even be found in private archives etc. There is at least one real Keefe that I believe is in a private collection but I've not seen it. No one to my knowledge has ever seen a real Frank Grant.

If you are talking Living non-HOF players Mike G. Marshall tops the list although he's done at least a couple private signings in the last 10 years so not as tough as he used to be. I'm not real up to date on post WW II living non-signers , the guy to refer that question to would likely be Bill Corcoran who is a member of this board but has (so far) remained silent
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:09 PM
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Jim,

Is this Keefe real? Seems like it went awfully cheap if it was in fact a Keefe cut.

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=9559
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2012, 04:33 PM
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bid mcphee i dont even know of a example thats been sold
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2012, 05:18 PM
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There have been several real Bid McPhee autographs sold , A nice GPC sold right after his HOF induction for $7,500. There has been a few other nice McPhee items sell since then
As for the Keefe cut pictured in link above ...some "lucky" bidder got a real bargain
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2012, 06:25 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-illini View Post
Jim,

Is this Keefe real? Seems like it went awfully cheap if it was in fact a Keefe cut.

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=9559
I'm glad you found that as I was about to go searching for it. That is the only (purported) Keefe auto I've ever seen. It seems slowly drawn, but with nothing to compare it to, what else can anyone say? I sincerely doubt that Topps has a record of what the cut comes from. hell, I doubt they have a record of who they bought it from.

I love that the auction says that it comes with authentication from Topps. That means squat as they don't authenticate anything.
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:27 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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For giggles, here is another cut auto from that 2004 Topps Tribute set. Pop Lloyd is not as tough as most listed here, but you sure don't see many of them.

I wonder where Topps bought these cuts?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POP-JOHN-LLO...item1c20daebf6
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2012, 06:42 PM
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Does anyone think they could have picked up some choice autographs on this boat trip ?? S.S. Olivette from Cuba to Tampa May 1917. Look at the names of the first two passengers traveling together
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2012, 06:55 PM
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Also to negate the myth that Cristobal Torriente was illiterate , see top right of ship passage document , the question is "Able to read & write" and he answers yes to both
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:18 PM
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Someone paid 4200 for this GEM

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/236/cap-an...-baseball.aspx
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:27 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Default Coach's Corner Auctions Lee Trythall Scott Malack Josh Gibson

I thought Josh Gibson was difficult to find, but not for Coach's Corner headed by Lee Trythall and Scott Malack.

As a matter of fact, they have a Josh Gibson autographed baseball listed right now.

To discover a Josh Gibson autographed baseball penned in blue ink was quite a discovery for Lee Trythall and Scott Malack.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=337534

Josh-CC-4.jpg

Josh-CC-5.jpg

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  #20  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:28 PM
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Didn't Keefe sign the Players League ledgers that sold about 10 years ago in Hunts Auction? I dont know if I can find it or not, but I thought he signed some of the pages of the "minutes" of the meetings as the secretary or something.
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:34 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prewarsports View Post
Didn't Keefe sign the Players League ledgers that sold about 10 years ago in Hunts Auction? I dont know if I can find it or not, but I thought he signed some of the pages of the "minutes" of the meetings as the secretary or something.
I forgot about this one. Says it includes Ward, Keefe, Conner, and Welch. yikes!

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/ima...1149&lot_qual=
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:35 PM
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I haven't seen George Davis' name pop up. I thought he was almost impossible. Given his long career as a player and manager, that always surprised me.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2012, 09:42 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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George Davis is a good one.

I will go ahead and throw this list out there. I have been collecting HOF autographs for some time now, but have only seriously searched major auction houses for toughies over the last few years. Here are the autos I've never seen examples of, for sale or otherwise. I would love links to any examples that anyone has.

Jack Chesbro (P) - 1946
John Clarkson (P) - 1963
Andy Cooper (P), Negro Leagues - 2006
George Davis (SS) - 1998
Buck Ewing (C) - 1939
Pud Galvin (P) - 1965
Frank Grant (2B), Negro Leagues - 2006
Pete Hill (LF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Joe McGinnity (P) - 1946
Bid McPhee (2B) - 2000
José Méndez (P), Negro Leagues - 2006
Charles "Old Hoss" Radbourn (P) - 1939
Bullet Rogan (P), Negro Leagues - 1998
Amos Rusie (P) - 1977
Louis Santop (C), Negro Leagues - 2006
Frank Selee (Mgr) - 1999
Mule Suttles (1B - LF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Ben Taylor (1B), Negro Leagues - 2006
Sam Thompson (RF) - 1974
Cristóbal Torriente (CF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Rube Waddell (P) - 1946
Sol White (Builder), Negro Leagues - 2006
Smokey Joe Williams (P), Negro Leagues - 1999
Jud Wilson (3B - 1B), Negro Leagues - 2006
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:54 PM
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Default hof

I am very much looking forward to the release of Ron Hof autograph book in October. As a hall of fame autograph collector I relish the opportunity see examples of the rarities. Also as far as modern hall of famers there are no non signers. While some very rarely sign for free but there all readily available on the show circuit.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2012, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty bombjack View Post
George Davis is a good one.

I will go ahead and throw this list out there. I have been collecting HOF autographs for some time now, but have only seriously searched major auction houses for toughies over the last few years. Here are the autos I've never seen examples of, for sale or otherwise. I would love links to any examples that anyone has.

Jack Chesbro (P) - 1946
John Clarkson (P) - 1963
Andy Cooper (P), Negro Leagues - 2006
George Davis (SS) - 1998
Buck Ewing (C) - 1939
Pud Galvin (P) - 1965
Frank Grant (2B), Negro Leagues - 2006
Pete Hill (LF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Joe McGinnity (P) - 1946
Bid McPhee (2B) - 2000
José Méndez (P), Negro Leagues - 2006
Charles "Old Hoss" Radbourn (P) - 1939
Bullet Rogan (P), Negro Leagues - 1998
Amos Rusie (P) - 1977
Louis Santop (C), Negro Leagues - 2006
Frank Selee (Mgr) - 1999
Mule Suttles (1B - LF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Ben Taylor (1B), Negro Leagues - 2006
Sam Thompson (RF) - 1974
Cristóbal Torriente (CF), Negro Leagues - 2006
Rube Waddell (P) - 1946
Sol White (Builder), Negro Leagues - 2006
Smokey Joe Williams (P), Negro Leagues - 1999
Jud Wilson (3B - 1B), Negro Leagues - 2006
Here are Amos and Rube.

BTW, more than one Amos has surfaced, although they are scarce. Perhaps Jim Stinson can chime in. I recall him selling the one of the most recent examples of "The Hoosier Thunderbolt" that I remember selling.

Here is an example of Rube Waddell from Smithsonian Baseball.
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File Type: jpg Amos Rusie signed cut.jpg (40.8 KB, 675 views)
File Type: jpg Rube Waddell signature.jpg (48.7 KB, 682 views)

Last edited by Scott Garner; 09-11-2012 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:32 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Thanks Scott. I forgot about that Rusie. It just sold recently, no? Legendary or Heritage, I forget.

That Waddell, on the other hand, I've never seen. Is it property of the Smithsonian then? Any info on its provenance?
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:18 AM
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Here's my Chesbro, on a 1903 Pittsburgh reunion ball:


Last edited by David Atkatz; 09-11-2012 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty bombjack View Post
Thanks Scott. I forgot about that Rusie. It just sold recently, no? Legendary or Heritage, I forget.

That Waddell, on the other hand, I've never seen. Is it property of the Smithsonian then? Any info on its provenance?
Wayne,
The Rube Waddell autograph with inscription is from the verso of a cabinet photo of Waddell that was apparently given to a hunting friend of Rube's. It resides in the collection of David Bowen according to the great book Smithsonian BASEBALL by Stephen Wong.

I hope this helps.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
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Here's my Chesbro, on a 1903 Pittsburgh reunion ball:

Awesome ball, David!
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2012, 05:32 AM
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Delete

Last edited by Scott Garner; 09-11-2012 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Duplicate post
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  #31  
Old 09-11-2012, 06:26 AM
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I sold the Amos Rusie (kennel club) pictured above.
I sold a Pirates reunion ball too with Chesbro many years ago although there were several signed balls from that event and seems like the Chesbro on the one I sold was lighter. But heck that was probably 25 years ago.

GEORGE STACEY DAVIS is extremely tough Hall of Famer because he is one of those players that "went missing" after his career as a player ended in 1909. His death in 1940 was not discovered until many years after the fact. See below

Davis vanished into obscurity after his retirement. He worked in baseball as a coach, scout, and manager, while also working at a variety of other jobs that included stints as a professional bowler and an automobile salesman.
The circumstances of his death remained a mystery until baseball historian Lee Allen discovered its details through a campaign to track down historical baseball players, run in part in The Sporting News. He died in Philadelphia of paresis due to tertiary syphilis
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:49 AM
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Here is SMOKEY JOE WILLIAMS 1942 WW II draft card, Signed in lower right. He registered for both the WW I and WW II draft. In 1942 he was tending bar in NYC. I don;t know of any authentic Williams signatures ever being offered for sale.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:05 AM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Wow, great stuff guys. Keep the toughies coming!

I'm getting excited for Ron K's book as well.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:18 PM
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Here is a link with photos to the Keefe autograph, I am surprised Ron didn't remember this when it came up for sale, it was consigned by Keefe's family and the whole thing was written by him not just the signatures in the book (of which there are several). Signed by a bunch of other guys too.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/i...=1149&lot_qual

Last edited by prewarsports; 09-11-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:20 PM
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Default Andy Cooper

I have an Andy Cooper on a 3x5 hard stock piece of paper that I bought quite a while ago from negro league expert Wayne Stivers. It is a perfect match to the one in Keatings book. I guess my other rarity is Ned Hanlon that I bought from Jim Stinson
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:33 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
I have an Andy Cooper on a 3x5 hard stock piece of paper that I bought quite a while ago from negro league expert Wayne Stivers. It is a perfect match to the one in Keatings book. I guess my other rarity is Ned Hanlon that I bought from Jim Stinson
Damn, show those off man! I wanna see scans!
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:38 AM
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Default Hanlon, Cooper

They are in the bank vault. I should have scanned before putting them there. I am leaving for an extended trip soon and if someone reminds me this spring I will be happy to do it. Jim Stinson might have a scan of the Hanlon since it was in an old list of his
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:13 AM
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I have been looking for an eternity for either a joss or waddell autograph on a ball.....no luck
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:00 AM
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Default Old list indeed - 10 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
They are in the bank vault. I should have scanned before putting them there. I am leaving for an extended trip soon and if someone reminds me this spring I will be happy to do it. Jim Stinson might have a scan of the Hanlon since it was in an old list of his
Quality of my image of Jim's 8/1992 listing sucks,
but the print quality of my photocopy of the listing
leaves much to be desired. But I have no doubt
that the actual autograph item is quite impressive.

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Old 09-12-2012, 11:12 AM
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Not my Hanlon but a nice one...

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Old 09-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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Not my Hanlon but a nice one...

What do you guys think about this...have no clue about authenticity, but after seeing that cut, it makes me think a little...probably no shot at being real
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:49 PM
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Here's another tough one that's not mine...

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:18 PM
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Here's another tough one that's not mine...

Is that a Plank on their? 1911 A's or something like that?
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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New member, so I'm bringing this back from the dead.

I saw somewhere on here that the new autograph book will not feature a Tim Keefe auto?

According to this guy's website, it seems as if he has a Keefe auto ball?!

http://www.littlecooperstown.com/
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  #45  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:40 PM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
Steve Zarelli
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When I read about the guy having a Joe D + Marilyn dual signed ball, the radar goes off. I'd like to see some close ups of this collection.
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  #46  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:56 PM
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yanks12025 yanks12025 is offline
Brock L.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
When I read about the guy having a Joe D + Marilyn dual signed ball, the radar goes off. I'd like to see some close ups of this collection.
I remember a post months ago about a guy having a huge signed baseball collection in a vault, but in the video you could tell several were fake.

So unless this guy is VERY RICH, I doubt all of it is real.
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  #47  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:58 PM
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JimStinson JimStinson is offline
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there were some (more than a few) Legit ...Tim Keefe signatures sold at auction by the family , The author was aware of them but chose to err on the side of caution , There ARE examples of all the rest including Torriente and Mendez but they are not in the public domain. Ultimately to my knowledge the only Hall of famer that no one can even find an example of is FRANK GRANT.
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  #48  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:01 PM
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yanks12025 yanks12025 is offline
Brock L.
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Here's the video. It's actually the same person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szw6Yn18fHo

Last edited by yanks12025; 10-25-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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  #49  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:26 PM
packs packs is offline
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I know this is going to sound crazy but a few years ago I was doing random searches on eBay and I came across a Cristobal Torriente signed postcard. But it was a weird postcard in that it had nothing to with baseball and had this really strange waiter-looking guy on the front. It was definitely signed by A Cristobal Torriente but I had no way to tell if it was THE Cristobal Torriente. It had a Buy It Now of $300. I still regret not taking a flyer.
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  #50  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:32 PM
Jlighter Jlighter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks12025 View Post
Here's the video. It's actually the same person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szw6Yn18fHo
Is his Joe Jackson auto real?
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