John Titus-Itus

[JohnP0621]

Whats Up with the T206 John Titus. Did everyone get the John Titus-Itus Flu.
Recent sales of this card have soared in price. Besides the Great Stache on this card ,I dont think that it is a hard card to find. I purchased a PSA 4 around a year ago for under $90.00. Recent Ebay sales are as follows::eek

PSA-1 $92.99
PSA-3 $237.06
PSA-3 $289.99
PSA-4 $353.00
PSA-5 $549.99
PSA-6 $999.99.

Also all BIN Prices on EBAY are Way Too High. Am I missing Something?
Maybe I should Grow a Big Stache and Go Ask My Boss for a Raise.

Happy New Year!!
John P

[z28jd]

Someone has a hoard of them we've been told. It's probably not more rare than most commons, just the amount that come up for sale is much lesser than your average common card.

[DerekMichael]

I would love to get a Titus in a PSA 4 for $90. You are a lucky man!

[CMIZ5290]

This topic, like many others, has been discussed numerous times. First of all, it is an extremely tough common in high grade (6 or higher). As far as the supposed hoarder on Net54 of these cards, I have never been able to confirm that. In addition to the lower pops, I really believe the fact that he is the only "moustached" player in the set also plays a big factor. There are many other tough commons ( Reulbach glove, Powers, Schulte front, Ames hands at chest, Donlin fielding, etc..) that are somewhat similar to this card in value....

[CMIZ5290]

Also, in respect to the theory of the only player with a moustache, the uniqueness definitely adds to the value. For example, the very few horizontal poses bring a huge premium. For the most part, their populations are fairly decent, but because there are only a handful, price is driven up....JMO

[milkit1]

I think in light of these recent prices that everyone should just calm down, breathe a little, and take a little break. $100 for a John Titus PSA 1 is pretty ridiculous.

[bbsports]

The post you listed John is a big concern. It seems that certain players get hoarded & have now become overpriced like the Titus card because he is the only T206 player that has a moustache. Hey Kevin, the other cards you mention in your thread are either short prints or are from the elate 8 group. Titus does not fall in either of these groups. The concern here is that you can hoard any card & then it becomes overpriced? I don't think this is good for the hobby, only for the collectors that are hoarding them.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by bbsports

The post you listed John is a big concern. It seems that certain players get hoarded & have now become overpriced like the Titus card because he is the only T206 player that has a moustache. Hey Kevin, the other cards you mention in your thread are either short prints or are from the elate 8 group. Titus does not fall in either of these groups. The concern here is that you can hoard any card & then it becomes overpriced? I don't think this is good for the hobby, only for the collectors that are hoarding them.

If they are actually collecting them as opposed to hoarding them to run up value, then I'd disagree and say it is hurting them the most because the price they are paying keeps going up.

[VoodooChild]

Ok, I'll admit that I had the Titus-itus. The PSA 3 $237.06 was me. I think I bought it out of spite/frustration. Whatever, it's only money and cards are worth what somebody is willing to pay.

The post from a while back if I remember correctly, said that he was hoarding them for some "special project". To me that could mean some sort of long term/lifetime commitment. Who knows if those cards will ever become available. If somebody owns 2/3rds (just a guess) of a card and they will never see the light of day, wouldn't the remaining 1/3 be considered rare? If not, there are worse things I could do than overpay for a baseball card.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by z28jd

If they are actually collecting them as opposed to hoarding them to run up value, then I'd disagree and say it is hurting them the most because the price they are paying keeps going up.

Beckett had article about 8 years ago describing how one collector's hoarde of Prince Fielder auto RC (Upper Deck) had driven up the value. The collector had quite an influence. Great read if you can find the article.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by bbsports

The post you listed John is a big concern. It seems that certain players get hoarded & have now become overpriced like the Titus card because he is the only T206 player that has a moustache. Hey Kevin, the other cards you mention in your thread are either short prints or are from the elate 8 group. Titus does not fall in either of these groups. The concern here is that you can hoard any card & then it becomes overpriced? I don't think this is good for the hobby, only for the collectors that are hoarding them.

Yes, you are exactly correct about the other cards. What I was referring to specifically was the population reports. Per PSA, there are only 16-PSA 6's, 3-PSA 7's, 1-PSA 7.5, and only 1-PSA 8 for Titus. That is a very low population, which is going to account for some of the premium it brings. Maybe the lower grades are more in line with other commons, I will definitely check.... I still believe most of it is being the only player in the set with the unique moustache. I would kill to find this card in a 7 or higher and then sell my 6.....

[soccersaver97]

Dang, I wish I saw this thread yesterday when I could have picked up a Titus for $30 that would have been a PSA 4 or 5 when graded

[JohnP0621]

I agree that the Titus cards are being Hoarded. After checking the Winning Bidders ID on the last few Titus that sold on Ebay,Most of them were Won by the same Bidder. Not sure about the BIN as they do not show buyers ID.
I dont understand the Hoarding aspect of collecting the same card unless you are doing a back run, But to each his own. Im curious to see how much higher the prices of his card sells for. They have already tripled in price since I purchased mine approx. a year ago.

John P

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

I agree that the Titus cards are being Hoarded. After checking the Winning Bidders ID on the last few Titus that sold on Ebay,Most of them were Won by the same Bidder. Not sure about the BIN as they do not show buyers ID.
I dont understand the Hoarding aspect of collecting the same card unless you are doing a back run, But to each his own. Im curious to see how much higher the prices of his card sells for. They have already tripled in price since I purchased mine approx. a year ago.

John P

Maybe it's a conspiracy I still would like to see proof of the so-called "hoarder". John, you are more than welcome to buy my PSA 6....

[sreader3]

Yes, there is a Titus hoarder. eBay ID is s**h.

Per Card Target, that eBay ID has bought 55 Titus cards since July 2011.

You have to figure they've picked up at least a few more in "off eBay" auctions.

I look forward to the Titus bubble bursting--along with the Shag bubble.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Yes, there is a Titus hoarder. eBay ID is s**h.

Per Card Target, that eBay ID has bought 55 Titus cards since July 2011.

You have to figure they've picked up at least a few more in "off eBay" auctions.

I look forward to the Titus bubble bursting--along with the Shag bubble.

I believe there was a thread on this before that reveals the name of the hoarder...archive time!

You mentioned Shag's bubble bursting...is he being hoarded or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I believe there was a thread on this before that reveals the name of the hoarder...archive time!

You mentioned Shag's bubble bursting...is he being hoarded or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Mike,

I don't necessarily think the Shag thing is hoarding--more just a false notion that Shag is somehow tougher than other southern leaguers. Which he isn't.

Truth be told, the toughest southern leaguer is Viola (Violat). [Now I've just started the Viola (Violat) bubble. See how easy it is?]

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hey Mike,

I don't necessarily think the Shag thing is hoarding--more just a false notion that Shag is somehow tougher than other southern leaguers. Which he isn't.

Truth be told, the toughest southern leaguer is Viola (Violat). [Now I've just started the Viola (Violat) bubble. See how easy it is?]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Better go grab me some violats now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[quinnsryche]

What exactly is the point of owning multiple copies of the same card? Seems like that guy is just being a dill hole and just jagging everyone else around. I don't agree with "to each his own". Don't be a douche, one of any card is enough for anyone. Leave some for the other guys out there. I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not looking for one, just my opinion.

[JohnP0621]

Kevin,
I looked up the winning bidder on the last 8 Titus that sold on Ebay and I believe that 6 were purchased by the same bidder. This does not include BIN .
Also I would love to own a Titus PSA 6 but it is out of my price range ,also my collection is mostly PSA-3 or 4 with a few 5. I agree with you that high Grade examples of this card PSA 6 or better are Tough with Low Pops and go for a premium but that goes for Most T206 . I am only talking about low grade cards PSA/SGC 1-5 . These prices have Sky Rocked lately.Just my Opinion.


Regards
John P

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by bbsports

The post you listed John is a big concern. It seems that certain players get hoarded & have now become overpriced like the Titus card because he is the only T206 player that has a moustache. Hey Kevin, the other cards you mention in your thread are either short prints or are from the elate 8 group. Titus does not fall in either of these groups. The concern here is that you can hoard any card & then it becomes overpriced? I don't think this is good for the hobby, only for the collectors that are hoarding them.

Funny thing is, I was reading an old SCD a few weeks ago, I think from the 70's and one of the writers was saying the same thing. He was worried about people hoarding and making it more difficult for others to get certain cards.

It's interesting reading those old pubs, some things never seem to change.

[t206fix]

Hoarding sucks! So whoever is hoarding those Red Hindus, Lenox's and P42's, please release them to me!

Or we can just let people collect whatever they want to collect...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagechris

........

It's interesting reading those old pubs, some things never seem to change.

It seems every time I post an old publication on the board we are reminded of this. Old sayings are old sayings for a reason too .

as for Titus...it's the mustache!!

[npa589]

I listed a bunch of cards this past week, so I employed my sister for a day to help scan the cards. Funny enough, she made a comment and asked a question about 1 card, and 1 card only out of the 260+ T206s she scanned, and it was the Titus. Her comment was: "This one just seems different." --- followed by "Was there a specific time frame when these were all produced, or was it over the course of 20 years?" I smiled when I asked for clarification as to the reason for her question, and her response was "The mustache..."

[glynparson]

Many of us grew up in the 1980s when purchasing or trading for multiples of our favorites was the norm, because I have switched to vintage but still collect like I did as a kid I am offended that I would be criticized and harshly for doing so. I am not a set guy I just buy cards I like I don't care if I have 1 or 75 if I like the card and the price I buy it. It's how I enjoy collecting too bad if people like Tony don't like it.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Many of us grew up in the 1980s when purchasing or trading for multiples of our favorites was the norm, because I have switched to vintage but still collect like I did as a kid I am offended that I would be criticized and harshly for doing so. I am not a set guy I just buy cards I like I don't care if I have 1 or 75 if I like the card and the price I buy it. It's how I enjoy collecting too bad if people like Tony don't like it.

I collect what I like. Don't really care if I have it or not. I see it as future trade bait.

I do think Tony was joking he wants all those Red Hindu's and Piedmont 42's

[slipk1068]

OOPS you meant Tony Q not Tony D my mistake.

3 cards up for auction. T206 commons graded SGC 5. 2 have a current bid of $100 and 1 has a current bid of $70. Assuming I like the eye appeal equally well, I am bidding on the $70 card whether or not I already own it.

[The Nasty Nati]

Ha well I realize this topic has been beaten to death but I'm more curious about when specifically (like in the 80's, 90's, etc.), did this card start to really gain popularity with collectors.

Also, has anyone noticed a trend with any other T206 cards where a common seems to be asking for higher and higher prices? For example, the Pelty Horizontal has been surging in prices lately, any others?

[teetwoohsix]

This card used to be as easy to get as most other commons. Now, as you can see in this thread- it seems that someone bought up as many as possible- creating a manufactured scarcity.

I will never pay an inflated price for a card that someone does this with, and in my opinion it's a pretty crappy thing to do (create a manufactured scarcity) to collectors.

Sincerely, Clayton

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Ha well I realize this topic has been beaten to death but I'm more curious about when specifically (like in the 80's, 90's, etc.), did this card start to really gain popularity with collectors.

Also, has anyone noticed a trend with any other T206 cards where a common seems to be asking for higher and higher prices? For example, the Pelty Horizontal has been surging in prices lately, any others?

I believe Titimania began about 3 or 4 years ago...before then he was a common fellow.

Brian

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

This card used to be as easy to get as most other commons. Now, as you can see in this thread- it seems that someone bought up as many as possible- creating a manufactured scarcity.



I will never pay an inflated price for a card that someone does this with, and in my opinion it's a pretty crappy thing to do (create a manufactured scarcity) to collectors.



Sincerely, Clayton

I agree with Clayton here. I remember when I first started collecting T206's and Titus was definitely as easy as any other and over the course of a year or so, he exploded! I highly doubt I will be paying a few hundred dollars for a PSA 2...especially for a card that simply isn't worth it.



As far as Pelty goes, I don't remember him bringing too much of a premium besides the normal slight premium for being a horizontal card. Lately Pelty has soared and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure how any card that is a common and not designated as a tough common necessarily, becomes tough...unless like Clayton mentioned above...manufactured scarcity.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Yes, there is a Titus hoarder. eBay ID is s**h.

Per Card Target, that eBay ID has bought 55 Titus cards since July 2011.

You have to figure they've picked up at least a few more in "off eBay" auctions.

I look forward to the Titus bubble bursting--along with the Shag bubble.

^^^ This says it all. Someone has created a manufactured scarcity, turned a relatively common card into what some are now perceiving as a tough common. It's only tough because someone thought of a way to make some bucks- by hoarding them to create the manufactured scarcity. It's a free country, and it's not illegal or anything- but morally and ethically, not so sure on that.

I know this is not some "ingenious" idea- MANY sellers I'm sure have been aware that they could take this "low road" but didn't. The problem with it is, that the person doing this (whomever it is) will only be encouraged by how well this worked for him/her, and we will all of a sudden be finding new "false tough commons" bringing in ridiculous amounts of money for this individual/s.

And, imagine if this bogus modem of operandi catches on, and more sellers start pondering the thought of doing this? Talk about a bubble! I just think it's wrong-it's NOT a scarce card in the truest sense. It's a common with a mustache , and a cool card. In the end, to me, it's a lousy way to mislead collectors-especially new collectors.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I agree with Clayton here. I remember when I first started collecting T206's and Titus was definitely as easy as any other and over the course of a year or so, he exploded! I highly doubt I will be paying a few hundred dollars for a PSA 2...especially for a card that simply isn't worth it.

As far as Pelty goes, I don't remember him bringing too much of a premium besides the normal slight premium for being a vertical card. Lately Pelty has soared and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure how any card that is a common and not designated as a tough common necessarily, becomes tough...unless like Clayton mentioned above...manufactured scarcity.

Thanks Mike!!

I'm glad you see what is going on. I'm not sure about the Pelty, but I think we have enough on the Titus to understand what's going on with that. I've always seen the horizontal cards being slightly higher- but not like some of the ridiculous prices the Titus cards seem to be fetching.

I want to say I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for paying too much for a Titus-I am more pissed that I feel some people have been taken advantage of by someone who knows exactly what they are doing by creating the manufactured scarcity of a common card.

Sincerely, Clayton

[glynparson]

This and I fail to see how this is a low road or morally ambiguous. How is it taking advantage of anyone? A baseball card is never a necessity regardless of how we feel about them. I'd be much more concerned with people polluting water then buying up the rights to clean water. We need that to survive we don't need a baseball card. If the same individual purchased 55+ on eBay they were available for others to purchase they just had to pop in one cent higher then the hoarder, who I believe we all know why is he above mention?

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by glynparson

This and I fail to see how this is a low road or morally ambiguous. How is it taking advantage of anyone? A baseball card is never a necessity regardless of how we feel about them. I'd be much more concerned with people polluting water then buying up the rights to clean water. We need that to survive we don't need a baseball card. If the same individual purchased 55+ on eBay they were available for others to purchase they just had to pop in one cent higher then the hoarder, who I believe we all know why is he above mention?

Well, in my mind you have to take a look at the domino effect. If someone creates a manufactured scarcity by buying up all of one particular card- the next thing to follow, is the scenario of other dealers upping the price of their Titus cards-because of course, who wants to leave money on the table? If they sell their PSA 2 for $35.00, when they know one just sold for $200.00 (due to the manufactured scarcity that one dealer created)- they know they are losing money. What dealer wants to lose money? None.

So,,, now, in effect- the hoarder has not only raised the prices for the cards he/she hoarded to create the manufactured scarcity-but the domino effect is other dealers pricing their cards to match what people are paying to the original hoarder. Make sense?

I don't know who it is, or why the person/s are above mention- I'm referring to the obvious scenario. And, I know you have been collecting for a long time, you know this isn't a truly scarce card.

Yes, we can certainly live without any card And, we can't live without water. And, as I said-it's a free country and it's not illegal- I guess it's a matter of principal. And, I may have a biased perspective, because I just collect cards and I don't deal them. So, this practice- purely from a collectors POV, pretty much sucks.

Sincerely, Clayton

[glynparson]

Still fail to see the immorality. So what if you want a Titus for less you can find one it just takes some looking at shows, antique markets, or paper shows as you said the Titus is not a short print there are many out there priced low it's just a little harder then looking on eBay. I've bought a couple over the past year I do not pay more than a common price for either one. If nobody pays more for Titus he would lose his ass. It's capitalism and unless your argument is that is inherently immoral, that would be a much larger debate, I fail to see immorality. I see where you feel entitled to be able to buy something at what you view a reasonable price but I do not see what Bill is doing as immoral.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Still fail to see the immorality. So what if you want a Titus for less you can find one it just takes some looking at shows, antique markets, or paper shows as you said the Titus is not a short print there are many out there priced low it's just a little harder then looking on eBay. I've bought a couple over the past year I do not pay more than a common price for either one. If nobody pays more for Titus he would lose his ass. It's capitalism and unless your argument is that is inherently immoral, that would be a much larger debate, I fail to see immorality. I see where you feel entitled to be able to buy something at what you view a reasonable price but I do not see what Bill is doing as immoral.

Well, you apparently know the person and I don't so you may have a biased opinion of this due to that aspect?

Yes, it is capitalism and Carnegie and Rockefeller would be proud. But, I cannot convince you now if I didn't in my prior posts that from a collectors POV, this practice sucks. It will have a negative effect for some people at some point. You can buy a HOF'er in similar grades for less.......

At the end of the day, I will still feel the same way about this. I also agree that I'm pretty sure if one looked hard enough, they could find a Titus at a reasonably normal price- I know many collectors and dealers on this board who have always given me nice deals and very fair pricing.

I just hope this doesn't set a precedent for the future.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I see where you feel entitled to be able to buy something at what you view a reasonable price but I do not see what Bill is doing as immoral.

I don't feel entitled to anything. You've missed my points. Anything I say beyond this will just be repetitive, so all I can do now is refer you to my prior posts.

Sincerely, Clayton

[4815162342]

Clayton, how many T206s do you have? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post more than one T206 pickup. Are you not contributing to manufactured scarcity of T206s by buying more than one? Of course! That's because all scarcity is manufactured.

From Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics: "The classic definition of economics is that it is the study of the allocation of scarce resources which have alternative uses. If resources-the ingredients of production-were not scarce, there would be no economics. We would be in an Eden or a utopia."

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Clayton, how many T206s do you have? I'm pretty sure I've seen you post more than one T206 pickup. Are you not contributing to manufactured scarcity of T206s by buying more than one? Of course! That's because all scarcity is manufactured.

From Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics: "The classic definition of economics is that it is the study of the allocation of scarce resources which have alternative uses. If resources-the ingredients of production-were not scarce, there would be no economics. We would be in an Eden or a utopia."

C'mon Daryl, you know this isn't the same thing. 102- with only one duplicate (Frank Owen). And, I don't agree that all scarcity is manufactured-even though I do agree that Thomas Sowell is a genius. (assuming that's why you quoted him ).

"When the levee breaks".......

Sincerely, Clayton

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

C'mon Daryl, you know this isn't the same thing. 102- with only one duplicate (Frank Owen). And, I don't agree that all scarcity is manufactured-even though I do agree that Thomas Sowell is a genius. (assuming that's why you quoted him ).

"When the levee breaks".......

Sincerely, Clayton

C'mon Clayton, you need to spread the wealth around and let 101 other collectors join in on the fun!

And yes, Thomas Sowell is a genius!

[GregMitch34]

I may be missing something here but if this guy is still buying up the Tituses--as many claim he ism via eBay (see previous posts)--then he is paying the same high prices that he allegedly aimed to inflate, so he is victim of his own game....

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

As far as Pelty goes, I don't remember him bringing too much of a premium besides the normal slight premium for being a horizontal card. Lately Pelty has soared and I'm not sure why.

Pelty is the one horizontal card that I am missing.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Pelty is the one horizontal card that I am missing.

I feel ya, Alex. Pelty doesn't come up too often and when he does, he usually goes for $100+ in poor-fair condition. Sooner or later you will get one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I feel ya, Alex. Pelty doesn't come up too often and when he does, he usually goes for $100+ in poor-fair condition. Sooner or later you will get one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On my budget that is too high. I will get him one of these days.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

I may be missing something here but if this guy is still buying up the Tituses--as many claim he ism via eBay (see previous posts)--then he is paying the same high prices that he allegedly aimed to inflate, so he is victim of his own game....

If he is still buying them, then maybe it isn't a game, maybe he just wants as many as he can get and doesn't care what it does to the value. Some people are strange and like collecting the same card

[phlflyer1]

All your Titus are belong to us!

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

C'mon Clayton, you need to spread the wealth around and let 101 other collectors join in on the fun!

And yes, Thomas Sowell is a genius!

Daryl, are we talking about the same issue here or what?

I don't expect anyone to "spread the wealth". That's nonsense.

Can someone please explain to me why shill bidding is wrong? I mean, a seller is just trying to maximize his/her profits after all, right? It's not like you have to bid in the auction, right? If it goes undetected, the reflective prices don't ever set a precedent, do they? Isn't it just capitalism, and the American way?

Sincerely, Clayton

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Daryl, are we talking about the same issue here or what?

I don't expect anyone to "spread the wealth". That's nonsense.

Can someone please explain to me why shill bidding is wrong? I mean, a seller is just trying to maximize his/her profits after all, right? It's not like you have to bid in the auction, right? If it goes undetected, the reflective prices don't ever set a precedent, do they? Isn't it just capitalism, and the American way?

Sincerely, Clayton

Shilling is fraud; the shill bidder has no intention of winning the auction. A "hoarder" is winning auctions at ever increasing prices as supply diminishes and, as said earlier, those prices go back down when they are sold again as supply increases.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Shilling is fraud; the shill bidder has no intention of winning the auction. A "hoarder" is winning auctions at ever increasing prices as supply diminishes and, as said earlier, those prices go back down when they are sold again as supply increases.

So, it boils down to simple innocent hoarding then. I see. Got it.

Sincerely, Clayton