Sad Sam Jones Autographs...Setting the Record Straight

[JimStinson]

There were two baseball players who used the handle "Sad Sam" Jones. On numerous occasions I've seen the autograph of one mistaken for the other. Hope this thread informs and sets the record straight.

They played in different decades , both had something in common they were both pitchers and both pitched no hitters.

SAMUEL POND JONES Began his major league career in 1914. He had his most memorable season in 1923 when he pitched a No-Hit game , finishing the season with a 21-8 record and 3.63 era while helping to lead the Yankees to their first World Championship. He died in 1966

SAMUEL JONES also known as "Sad Sam" or "Toothpick Sam" was an African American who began his baseball career in the Negro Leagues. His first major league season was 1951. On May 3rd 1952 while pitching for Cleveland with catcher Quincy Trouppe behind the plate they became the first black battery in the history of the American League. Jones would make history again when in 1955 he became the FIRST African American to pitch a No-Hitter. He died in 1971 of cancer at the age of 45

From an autograph collecting point of view the difference is dramatic. The 1920's era "Sad Sam" Jones is a relatively inexpensive and easy autograph to find , He had a long career and lived well into old age. Autographed 3x5's like the one illustrated here (The one with the salutation SINCERELY) sell for anywhere from $50.00-$75.00

The "other" Sad Sam Jones Illustrated here (With the salutation BEST WISHES) is a difficult and challenging autograph to obtain. This one is a government postcard postmarked May 19th, 1952. He could be moody and was not always a willing signer during his career which lasted into the early 1960's. That combined with his death at a young age. Makes his autograph at least 4 to 6 times as valuable and as RARE as that of his counterpart from three decades prior.

The difference in signatures is evident. Know what you are buying. Best wishes in your collecting pursuits
______________________________
Jim Stinson Sports Buying and Selling vintage Baseball autographs for over three decades. 19th Century and dead ball era my specialty
jim@stinsonsports.com

[almostdone]

IT's interesting to note that while the differences are obvious they both have a similar style slanting dramatically to the right.
Drew

[Scott Garner]

Please see photos of the earlier Sad Sam Jones (while playing for Boston), and "Toothpick" Sam Jones during his stint with the Cubs in the mid 1950's just for reference.

I also am including pictures of a game used ball with Toothpick Sam's John Handcock from his no hitter on May 12, 1955. I do not own this ball, but I saved the photo when this appeared on eBay within the last couple of years.

Here's a vintage album page of Toothpick Sam from my own personal collection.

I'd like to also mention that it been thought that "Toothpick" Sam was somewhat illiterate, adding to the mystery and scarcity of his signature compared to the earlier Samuel Pond Jones.

[JimStinson]

The "slant" might be explained in that they were both "righties", Thanks for posting additional images. I especially love this quote by STAN MUSIAL who saw quite a few curve balls in his day

During his career, Jones was known for his sweeping curveball, in addition to a fastball and changeup. Stan Musial once remarked, "Sam had the best curveball I ever saw... He was quick and fast and that curve was terrific, so big it was like a change of pace. I've seen guys fall down on curves that became strikes."
____________________________
Buying Vintage autographs 19th Century and dead ball era my specialty
jim@stinsonsports.com

[frankhardy]

I know this thread is over a decade old, but I thought I would add my 2 cents. I have been researching this topic recently due to my Topps Cardinals autograph collection. I am about 95% complete from 1952 - 2019 with most of the 95% that is missing is from 2003 and up. I have recently resorted to cut signatures glued to the card for the absolute toughest ones. Then if and when one comes available I would replace with an "on card" signature. I have done this on 15 cards (with another in the works), including 3 of the 4 1952 Topps high numbers (Les Fusselman d. 1970; Eddie Yuhas d. 1986; Hal Rice d. 1997). I already had a 1952 Wilmer Mizell on card.

Others that I have used cut signatures on are -

1953 Topps Eddie Yuhas d. 1986
1953 Topps Hal Rice d. 1997
1953 Topps Les Fusselman d. 1970
1957 Topps Sam Jones d. 1971
1958 Topps Herm Wehmeier d. 1973
1958 Topps Sam Jones d. 1971
1959 Topps Sam Jones d. 1971 (in the works)
1960 Topps Coaches Harry Walker d. 1999 (other three are on card on 2 different cards)
1964 Topps Johnny Keane d. 1967
2000 Topps Traded Darryl Kile d. 2002
2001 Topps Darryl Kile d. 2002
2002 Topps Darryl Kile d. 2002

After researching Sam Jones, here is what I have come up with. I have posted some of this info below in another newer thread.

= = =

Both Sam Jones' were nicknamed "Sad" Sam. If you look on the back of the latter's 1957 Topps card, it calls him "Sad" Sam. The latter is also known as "Toothpick" Sam per the back of his 1958 Topps card because he always had a toothpick in his mouth.

This is also confirmed by a SABR article on Sam Jones (The Society of American Baseball Research).

Even though both signatures are slanted, there is a distinct difference between the first, older Sam Jones (Samuel Pond Jones) and the second, younger Sam Jones. As the first poster in this thread posted correctly, the first index card is "Toothpick" Sam Jones (also nicknamed "Sad" Sam; and he would pay homage to the original). The second index card is slanted, but much different and is an autograph of the original "Sad" Sam (not "Toothpick").

The only question is why did the latter Sam Jones (my concern because he played for the Cardinals) have 2 different signatures and changed back and forth?

There is evidence that he changed back and forth. If you look at his facsimile signatures on the front of his 1952 Topps and the back of his 1953 Topps are the slanted and fluid signatures while the facsimile signatures on his 1956 Topps and 1959 Topps have the "funky" J style.