NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-26-2022, 04:58 PM
Aj-hman Aj-hman is offline
Aaron
A.aron Hein.eman
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: WA State
Posts: 78
Default Wash "like" Trading in sports cards

Wash trading is the manipulation of a regulated marketplace and banned in 1936 for the US stock exchange as cited in an NPR story. It was also recently reported by Forbs that "More Than Half Of All Bitcoin Trades Are Fake." This report got me thinking about cards I've been keeping a log of regarding recent eBay sales. The cards are tracked by their serial numbers and seller ID in order to keep an accurate record. When I'd ask the seller about the relisted card, I'd get the classic refrain that it was a "non-paying" bidder... up to 3 times?! It made me think that the sales were not legitimate in an effort to manipulate the market place.

Do you believe wash "like" trading is a significant issue in sports cards markets?

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/23/11246...g-crypto-fraud
ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/shehanchandrasekera/2021/09/13/cryptocurrency-may-soon-be-subject-to-wash-sale-rules/?sh=1418e83d59d3
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-26-2022, 05:29 PM
sb1 sb1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,989
Default

If you are talking about "wash" sales to take a loss and then rebuy the like asset, unlikely as there are no "losses" captured when selling a "collectable". However, if one ventures down the "investor" path they might give it a try, time will tell how they fare upon scrutiny.

Last edited by sb1; 09-26-2022 at 05:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-26-2022, 08:36 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,893
Default

There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-27-2022, 12:17 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,046
Default

There was an E-Topps "seller" who listed large numbers of them often as a lot, and a very low prices. But only allowed pre approved bidders.
I asked about how to get approved, and never got a response.

I suspect they singlehandedly tanked the prices for the entire program.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-27-2022, 01:25 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.
All good points John. Agree with you
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-27-2022, 01:40 PM
mrreality68's Avatar
mrreality68 mrreality68 is offline
Jeffrey Kuhr
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 5,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
All good points John. Agree with you
well said and I agree
__________________
Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-27-2022, 04:28 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 12,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.
Did you mean eBay?
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-27-2022, 09:06 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Did you mean eBay?
Yep, meant eBay.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-27-2022, 09:14 PM
Casey2296's Avatar
Casey2296 Casey2296 is offline
Is Mudville so bad?
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,592
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
There are definitely fake sales recorded on ebay and other sites, mainly because it's so easy and there's almost no recourse. If PSA required KYC on every account and limited accounts to 1 per person, it would drop to a reasonable amount, but those are bad for the bottom line.

How many of the PWCC eBay sales were bought and traded, just to set the market? When they permitted you being able to use future consignments towards your purchase, they all but encouraged it.

And eBay's misreporting of sales (and hiding of accurate BIN/BO sales prices) could be considered fraudulent. Consider this example, from a couple of years ago. A seller had 5 or 6 1990 Topps PSA 8 partial blackless cards listed on eBay for $4700 each. The buyer, who revealed this on CU/PSA message boards, said that he purchased them each for $800-1000 by sending an interest email to the seller, then the seller counteroffered with those prices. When the sale completed, it still showed $4,700 each on PSA's APR tool. I pointed it out to them at the time; not sure if they've fixed or deleted those records. Not sure what Terapeak said, or whether worthpoint, 130point, etc were pulling the correct number either.

Also, people nearly never pay attention to sales prices of auctions, that aren't paid for. Once the price has been recorded, it gets repeated into truth.
Good points John,
I tend to rely on AH sales more than anything, sans PWCC of course, but even then there can be big honest price swings based on a couple of collections chasing the same card so even that needs to be discounted.
__________________
Phil Lewis


https://www.flickr.com/photos/183872512@N04/
-
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help? Wash. Athletic Club "Pat Raedy" smokelessjoe Boxing / Wrestling Cards & Memorabilia Forum 0 09-15-2010 10:21 AM
All requests for buying, selling or trading cards go in the "Buy/Sell/Trade" section Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 0 02-10-2008 08:12 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:53 AM.


ebay GSB