Old Judge Cabinet HOFers Scarcity List

[oldjudge]

It's been 16 years since we published the Old Judge book (time flies) and we thought it was time to update the N173 HOF scarcity list. Joe, Richard and I , based on the data we had as well as on what has come to market in the last 16 years, have come up with this ranking, with the top player, Clark Griffith, being the rarest (still none known) and Cap Anson being the most common. For the most part the list makes intuitive sense. Smokers could order whoever they wanted so one would assume that the greatest players would generate the most interest. Likewise, those at the beginning of their careers (Beckley, Delahanty, etc) would generate less interest. Also, teams from bigger cities would have more smokers, leading to more orders for their local players.The one that has always amazed me is Gavin. He was already an established star (at the start of 1889 he had almost 300 wins) and yet his cabinets are rare. Perhaps in the Pittsburgh area Old Judge cigarettes did not sell well so there were fewer redemptions. As with most lists of this type the individual placement of certain players can be debated. The differences between adjoining players can sometimes be minuscule. Hopefully, this list will be the basis for discussion amongst N173 aficionados.

GRIFFITH
BECKLEY
GALVIN
RUSIE
WHITE
MACK
MCPHEE
ROBINSON
O'DAY
NICHOLS
DELAHANTY
HANLON
RADBOURN
THOMPSON
MCCARTHY
HAMILTON
O'ROURKE
WRIGHT
CONNOR
WELCH
DUFFY
COMISKEY
CLARKSON
BROUTHERS
KEEFE
WARD
EWING
KELLY
ANSON

[Joe_G.]

Great update Jay!

Since publishing the book there have been some interesting finds including the Weiss 2019 auction: https://weissauctions.com/past-auction/n173/

Three new examples of McPhee moved him down the list but still extremely difficult (one museum copy, 3 private), others have had two new discoveries such as Hanlon but likewise remains very tough. Top half of this list is impossible to quite tough. Bottom half is possible to collect given a little patience and money.

I do hope a Griffith eventually surfaces such that we have large format examples of all HOFers.

If you have a cabinet from top half of this list we would welcome you chiming in with a picture in case we need to alter our recorded populations.

[Joe_G.]

And expanding on Jay's theory to the Detroit HOFers . . . the four Detroit HOFers (Brouthers, Hanlon, Thompson, & White) are more difficult to find with Detroit (1888 cabinets) than the East coast teams they joined in 1889. This could be for a couple reasons . . .

1) In general, more 1889 cabinets than 1888 (fewer coupons required in 1889 and redemption offer may have run longer in 1889).
2) All four Detroit players joined larger East Coast cities . . .
- Brouthers went from Detroit to Boston (more Boston cabinets)
- Hanlon & White went from Detroit to Pittsburgh (more Pittsburgh cabinets)
- Thompson went from Detroit to Philadelphia (more Philly cabinets)

[oldjudge]

For those wanting to get a feeling for city populations;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1890_U...0one%20million.

[tiger8mush]

great update, thanks!

Eager to see some eye candy

[GaryPassamonte]

Jay- What would be the estimated population for the most common HOF players? Also, who do you think is the most common non HOFer?

[oldjudge]

Hi Gary! I'd hate to throw out a guess because undoubtedly I'd be wrong, but it seems like almost any auction that features 19th century material has an Anson cabinet. I used to think that Anson and Kelly were equally "common" but now I'm convinced that Anson has him comfortably beat, despite the fact that Kelly has two known poses (the typical bat at 45 degrees and the rare street clothes pose).

[paul]

Great information! I hadn't heard about the discovery of three new McPhee cabinets. When did that happen?

[oldjudge]

Hi Paul! I'm never sure what discovery or new means in relation to cards. A discovery to me might be something that you've always known about. That said, we now know of three copies of McPhee in private hands.

[insidethewrapper]

I don't own any HOF N173 cabinets and probably never will, but I'm glad fellow collectors are sharing their research and information and not taking it to their graves. Thanks again.

[oldjudge]

Thanks Mike--hopefully people find this useful. What I really need to do is a cataloging of Gypsy Queens, but I never seem to get the time.

[brianp-beme]

I will probably never own a Old Judge cabinet, HOF or not, but I love that fellow collectors do and share their research. Thanks Jay and Joe!


And now for the highly anticipated non-sensical portion of my reply. I assume that the Galvin is scarcer because of the aversion, even back then, of receiving a card featuring a Pud.

Of course I have no way of stopping anyone from pullling their Pud and posting it on here.


Brian (no pud-pix PM's, please)

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I will probably never own a Old Judge cabinet, HOF or not, but I love that fellow collectors do and share their research. Thanks Jay and Joe!


And now for the highly anticipated non-sensical portion of my reply. I assume that the Galvin is scarcer because of the aversion, even back then, of receiving a card featuring a Pud.

Of course I have no way of stopping anyone from pullling their Pud and posting it on here.


Brian (no pud-pix PM's, please)

Got some bad or good news, depending on how you look at it. The first thing is that his nickname rhymes with good, not dud. It was in reference to pudding, so the same pronunciation.

The other is that he was very rarely referred to as Pud during his life. That nickname became popular when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame and the newspapers all printed bio info on the new players. That was 63 years after his death. He was mainly called Jeems or Gentleman Jeems during his life. The usage split between the Jeems variations and Pud would be over 99%, as in closer to 99.9% to 0.1%. That completely changed during his HOF announcement. He should not be known to us as Pud Galvin.

[oldjudge]

Hi John! You know Pirates history as well as anyone. Any idea why Galvin N173s are so scarce!

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Got some bad or good news, depending on how you look at it. The first thing is that his nickname rhymes with good, not dud. It was in reference to pudding, so the same pronunciation.

The other is that he was very rarely referred to as Pud during his life. That nickname became popular when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame and the newspapers all printed bio info on the new players. That was 63 years after his death. He was mainly called Jeems or Gentleman Jeems during his life. The usage split between the Jeems variations and Pud would be over 99%, as in closer to 99.9% to 0.1%. That completely changed during his HOF announcement. He should not be known to us as Pud Galvin.

Thanks John. Disaster averted!


Brian

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Hi John! You know Pirates history as well as anyone. Any idea why Galvin N173s are so scarce!

I haven't got a clue. He was playing regularly during the entire process of the Old Judge set and he was quite popular in the Pittsburgh area because he was a star there during the International Association days first, before rejoining them later. You would assume that Pittsburgh fans wanted his card. He also lived in town and had a business as well.

Maybe the reason is just somebody collected them and they were either lost for a reason or sit in an old house undiscovered. Plenty of old houses in Pittsburgh. I'm sure some have been in the same family since back then, with an attic that has never fully been searched

[Schwertfeger1007]

Thank you for posting this. I was able to get one of these in LOTG last night. I'll obviously never collect all of these but I'm super happy with the small handful I've been able to acquire

[BRoberts]

Love it when a plan comes together.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Schwertfeger1007

Thank you for posting this. I was able to get one of these in LOTG last night. I'll obviously never collect all of these but I'm super happy with the small handful I've been able to acquire

Congratulations! Don't worry about trying to complete the set. As far as we know there is no known Griffith and the only Galvins we know of are in museums.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Got some bad or good news, depending on how you look at it. The first thing is that his nickname rhymes with good, not dud. It was in reference to pudding, so the same pronunciation.

The other is that he was very rarely referred to as Pud during his life. That nickname became popular when he was inducted into the Hall of Fame and the newspapers all printed bio info on the new players. That was 63 years after his death. He was mainly called Jeems or Gentleman Jeems during his life. The usage split between the Jeems variations and Pud would be over 99%, as in closer to 99.9% to 0.1%. That completely changed during his HOF announcement. He should not be known to us as Pud Galvin.

If you look at the list all the Pittsburgh guys are near the top. I wonder if Old Judges didn't sell well in Pittsburgh.

[triwak]

My only N173 HOFer. ALMOST in the top (rare) half. And every thread needs a card.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

If you look at the list all the Pittsburgh guys are near the top. I wonder if Old Judges didn't sell well in Pittsburgh.

You would probably have to do a survey of N173 examples and see if Pittsburgh players in general were tough to find. In my collection, 100% of my N173s are Pittsburgh players, so they seem very common

[Joe_G.]

Circling back to most common non-HoFer I'd like to nominate Charlie Bennett who wasn't introduced to N172/N173 until 1889 (after joining Boston).

[alywa]

Cool info. I only have one (Brouthers), but love seeing the list. Great work!

[Leon]

Posting an image for Jay.
Nice N173.

[oldjudge]

Thanks Leon! Joe mentioned Bennett and my Bennett is one of my nicest cards.